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Old 06-23-2008, 04:58 PM   #21
neckedness neckedness is offline
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This problem has been around for a very long time for every reciever/speaker setup I've owned. It's not your equipment or setup, it's the low quality mics they use to record the speech. Also the sound engineers fault for not increasing the dialogue volume to be in same level as music and sound effects. So many retards in the business.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neckedness View Post
This problem has been around for a very long time for every reciever/speaker setup I've owned. It's not your equipment or setup, it's the low quality mics they use to record the speech. Also the sound engineers fault for not increasing the dialogue volume to be in same level as music and sound effects. So many retards in the business.
Is that sarcasm? 'cuz you may need to indicate it as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnymech
I love all the hi-tech answers posted here about the problem. I find that it doesn't matter what your sound-system is. You can watch a movie with a mono TV and still have the problem: the sound is mixed with the speech too low, and everything else too loud!
The dynamic range of surround sound mixing is the issue. And it's not a problem with the mixing. You are just too used to mono/stereo programming.

Try listening to your favorite song. Not EVERY SINGLE MUSICAL INSTRUMENT OR ELEMENT is playing at the same volume as the vocal performance. If it was, the song would be a mess and would not be something you'd listen to. It's the same thing with surround sound mixing.

Another test you can do is switching channels that are broadcast in DD 5.1 and DD 2.0. 2.0 will be louder than 5.1 at the same volume setting.


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Old 06-23-2008, 08:06 PM   #23
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i had the same exact problem with Planet Earth. i couldn't even watch it. they sent me a new one and... problem solved.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:01 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP View Post
DOWNLOAD THIS PDF


Goto page 38 of the PDF

HUMMM, By reading your user info, I shouldn't be helping you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO REDWINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I live in Detroit.....
Just kiddin, I hope this helps
I'm sorry your a Red Wings fan Don't worry we all make mistakes, but thanks for your help anyways.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:03 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis109 View Post
Set the db higher on your center channel until you find a balance between being able to hear dialog properly and still getting a good surround sound mix.

Try it at say +2db above your other channels and then tweak it from there. Another option would be to lower your surrounds, but the end result is that you want your center channel louder (+ db) than the other speakers to address the problem you're talking about.
I'm going to give that a shot. I think it will help. Thanks
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Old 06-24-2008, 01:16 AM   #26
Sir Terrence Sir Terrence is offline
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There are a few things here that could be the problem

A. It sounds like your speaker package is not calibrated. If you have not calibrated it, you need to go and get a Radio Shack SPL meter, and do so.

B. Horizontally placed center speakers even if they are a timbre match to your main left/right pair, will have a radically different response(and change in timbre) when placed between two vertically placed towers. Try placing it vertically(if you can) which would more closely mimick how the three front speakers are placed on the dubbing stage where the soundtracks are mixed.

C. Boundary reinforcement from placing the center on top of a television, close to walls can effect its frequency balance, and therefore its dialog intelligibility. Center speakers(and all speakers for that matter with the exception of the surrounds) should be well away from walls and television sets.

D. You center speaker could be sitting in a room node, and that would really cause some dialog intelligibility problems. The frequency response would be radically different from the main left/right speakers. Either move your listening seat around a bit, or move the speaker around a bit to see if things improve.

E. The ambient level of you room may be too high(too much room noise covering up the dialog). Street noises, refridgerators going on, rustling or any noise in an adjacient room can lower your ability to hear the dialog clearly. So you turn it up, which makes the sound effects and music too loud. Try and keep the noise level of the room(and adjacient rooms) low, so you do not have to turn up the volume so high to hear the dialog clearly.

I am willing to bet that "A" and "E" is your problem.

I have never had dialog intellibility problems, but then my setup more mimicks the dubbing stage I work on in terms of how it is balanced and equalized. All of my front speakers are vertically placed equidistant from the prime listening seat (no need for electrical alignment), all full range(my center is pretty dang big) so no need for bass management, and I equalize my mains to match my center speakers response since it is the prime speaker, so you get a soundstage that is wide, deep, and from the floor to the ceiling with no holes between the speakers, and excellent phantom half left/right imaging. I also keep my room VERY quiet(it would meet THX levels for ambient noise) so the full dynamic range for dialog is intact.

The reality is, you just cannot plop you speakers down anywhere, and expect great sound from them. You have to calibrate, find a good placement, and listen and adjust, listen and adjust until you tighten things up right.
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Old 06-24-2008, 01:49 AM   #27
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I would also agree with the previous poster and say that a good starting point is +2 db for the center channel. I have an Onkyo 805 in the living room now, and a 605 in the upstairs media room. the 805 being in a bigger room I actually had to set to +5 for the center to make it sound **too me** the best, while the 605 being in a smaller room I left at the base settings with no problems.
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:57 AM   #28
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Ok, I used to know how to change the decibles of my center through my old dvd player. Now I use my PS3 and can't find a setting on how to change the speaker decibles. Is there not this setting on the PS3?
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Old 06-24-2008, 03:57 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frettless5 View Post
Ok, I used to know how to change the decibles of my center through my old dvd player. Now I use my PS3 and can't find a setting on how to change the speaker decibles. Is there not this setting on the PS3?

lol, you didnt download the file I gave the link to? It tell you how to raise and lower the decibles for your receiver.
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:24 AM   #30
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I've had this problem too, but I only have the 2 speakers in my tv. I don't have a receiver or 5.1 setup but still i can hear the differences between the pcm and standard tracks and when i set it to pcm or dtshd-ma the dialog is low and the specialfx stuff is loud. But i think its amazing when your just sitting there listening to average speech levels and bam you jump out of your seat from the noise of the explosion, but that's just me. It is a real pain when u want to listen to the lossless audio at night time or when u cant have the speakers too loud though. I don't mind losing my hearing, I'm probably already partially deaf from listening to my ipod on the bus every morning almost at max volume, past 3/4.
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:35 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP View Post
lol, you didnt download the file I gave the link to? It tell you how to raise and lower the decibles for your receiver.
No, I didn't. I'm sorry. I will now.
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:35 AM   #32
neckedness neckedness is offline
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Speech quiet, music too loud. It's only for some movies. You guys go adjusting your speakers just for that certain movie, then you gonna mess up the sounds for the other movie that don't need to be adjusted. Like I said before, low quality mics are used while filming. What a hassle to adjust your receiver all the time. Why don't yall just use Midnight listening mode.
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:48 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP View Post
DOWNLOAD THIS PDF


Goto page 38 of the PDF

HUMMM, By reading your user info, I shouldn't be helping you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO REDWINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I live in Detroit.....
Just kiddin, I hope this helps
It took a little trial and error but I got it. I got my center turned up and my rears boosted a little.
Movies that need to go Blu. The Ref, Open Range, Life As A House, Great Outdoors, True Lies, Joe Dirt, Maximum Overdrive, Pool Hall Junkies, Brain Candy.

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Old 06-24-2008, 05:54 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neckedness View Post
Speech quiet, music too loud. It's only for some movies. You guys go adjusting your speakers just for that certain movie, then you gonna mess up the sounds for the other movie that don't need to be adjusted. Like I said before, low quality mics are used while filming. What a hassle to adjust your receiver all the time. Why don't yall just use Midnight listening mode.
Because that flattens out the entire sound, when all the OP is wanting is to boost the dialog in the center channel a bit. Rather than make everything else suffer, why not just beef up the center a little?

I'm sure Terrence's response is much better than mine, but some of it is a little... "high end". I'll agree to make sure you run some kind of setup/calibration and attempt to reduce outside noise and improve acoustics in the theater room. Personally I wouldn't sacrifice the aesthetics (and the wife factor) of sitting my center channel vertically but I have heard that improves things as well.
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:10 AM   #35
Chris60119 Chris60119 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramis109 View Post
Because that flattens out the entire sound, when all the OP is wanting is to boost the dialog in the center channel a bit. Rather than make everything else suffer, why not just beef up the center a little?

I'm sure Terrence's response is much better than mine, but some of it is a little... "high end". I'll agree to make sure you run some kind of setup/calibration and attempt to reduce outside noise and improve acoustics in the theater room. Personally I wouldn't sacrifice the aesthetics (and the wife factor) of sitting my center channel vertically but I have heard that improves things as well.
Trust me there is no outside noise at all. I can hear a cricket fart when my system is turned off.
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:36 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frettless5 View Post
It took a little trial and error but I got it. I got my center turned up and my rears boosted a little.
So now with this little adjustment your not playing speed remote anymore? I used to do that when I first setup my surround, turn it up for speech and try and turn it down when loud noise's in the background. I believe "Planet Earth" was the WORST. Once I made the adjustments and continued to make adjustments untill perfect.

Now with my Current setup and the adjustments I made or can I say TWEAKED my system, I love it!!!
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:59 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neckedness View Post
Speech quiet, music too loud. It's only for some movies. You guys go adjusting your speakers just for that certain movie, then you gonna mess up the sounds for the other movie that don't need to be adjusted. Like I said before, low quality mics are used while filming. What a hassle to adjust your receiver all the time. Why don't yall just use Midnight listening mode.
Low quality mics, eh?

Please, name us some of these 'low quality mics' that are being used. I bet every one of them retails for more than the Shure SM58 that Bono sings through.

Again, I have zero problems understanding dialogue on my system. It is not the mics. It is either the playback equipment, or the calibration of said equipment.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:12 AM   #38
Sir Terrence Sir Terrence is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neckedness View Post
Speech quiet, music too loud. It's only for some movies. You guys go adjusting your speakers just for that certain movie, then you gonna mess up the sounds for the other movie that don't need to be adjusted. Like I said before, low quality mics are used while filming. What a hassle to adjust your receiver all the time. Why don't yall just use Midnight listening mode.
Neckedness,
Those microphones you call cheap cost anywhere from $800 dollars to several thousand dollars depending on the quality. They are by no means cheap. Alot(maybe 90-95%) of that dialog that they catch while filming is replaced in ADR in post production, but used as a lip syncing reference while the actors read the script, and the dialog is re-recorded. The dialog is mixed, and carefully balanced in a quiet room, with three identical speakers vertically mounted, carefully placed to SMPTE, THX or Dolby standards, and equalized for identical and balanced response at the listening position.

How many people do you think go through this kind of trouble when placing their speakers at home?

Not many, which is why dialog can sound balanced, and clear as a bell on the dubbing stage where it is mixed, and mismatched in loudness in your house where all kinds of acoustical rules are violated.
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Last edited by Sir Terrence; 06-25-2008 at 03:15 AM.
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Old 06-25-2008, 04:31 AM   #39
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Quote:
Please, name us some of these 'low quality mics' that are being used. I bet every one of them retails for more than the Shure SM58 that Bono sings through.
The 58 is the industry standard workhorse for rock vocals BTW, wired will set you back $100, wireless closer to $4-500.

I've got two, and they sound pretty sweet for my home recording uses (yes I'd like a better one, but it's what I've got), and I use a wireless one live
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:40 AM   #40
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While we're on the subject, I will say that for the first time with my new setup I popped in "300" and fired up the lossless PCM track. Sounded absolutely jaw-dropping during loud scenes and combat. Really the best I've listened to so far (haven't gone through all my movies yet though). However, some of the dialog was VERY quiet, and this seemed to only be on the PCM track and not the case on the DD 5.1 or the DD TrueHD tracks. The TrueHD track had a bitrate of around 1.5 or so while the PCM had around 3-4mbps average bitrate.

Is there something not tweaked properly in my setup? Is this an anomaly? I haven't listened to all the flicks to get a real good idea of the differences. I couldn't even try the cinema/late night modes because they don't work with PCM. I did (for the first time) try them with TrueHD and it seemed to make some difference.

It's the first time I've run into needing to tweak the volume around while I'm watching. Maybe this particular mix is more dynamic than others and I just needed to turn it up a bit, but since it was late I didn't want to do that.

Ideas, anyone?
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