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Old 08-19-2008, 05:09 PM   #21
richteer richteer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intamin View Post
Quick updated, just spoke with Jim and he said the Jolida 302b would be a great match for the STs, so I think I'll probably head that route. He also said that 302 is actually more musical than the larger 502.

Also, while it wasn't too late to go with the ribbons, it was a little more expensive than what I wanted to spend.
I use a pair of tube monoblocks (tube preamp too), and I love them. My PrimaLuna ProLogue 7s are beyond your budget, but you should check out the Vincent power amp. One reviewer in TAS stated that they were his sub-$1k reference power amp.
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Old 08-19-2008, 06:40 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Intamin View Post
Quick updated, just spoke with Jim and he said the Jolida 302b would be a great match for the STs, so I think I'll probably head that route. He also said that 302 is actually more musical than the larger 502.
The 302 is an integrated amp, meaning that it's a combined preamp/amp. Your new 2ch preamp would be redundant and unusable with the Jolida. FYI, using an integrated for 2ch is how Gremal handles his setup.

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Originally Posted by richteer View Post
...you should check out the Vincent power amp. One reviewer in TAS stated that they were his sub-$1k reference power amp.
Someone was asking about Vincents a few weeks back and I didn't know anything about them. Do you have the TAS link?
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:15 PM   #23
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If you want to integrate, get the Mesa Tigris to power your mains and let your receiver handle everything else.

Tube circuitry is absolutely magical in everyway.

Don't let the wattage fool you with tubes. A 100watt tube amp will flat out KILL a 300watt solid state amp any given day.

You will feel bass kicking you in the chest like never before and all the sublte little nuances (i.e. the tintinabulation of a crash) will pop out at you.

You will most definitely find yourself saying things like "I never noticed that before."

Totally expensive....TOTALLY worth it.

Completely organic...in a guitar amp, you can actually FEEL the difference between tubes and solid state. They are just unmatched technology.

Don't ever buy into solid state that "sounds" tube-like because they are just cutting the really high highs out of the top end to round out the wave and make it seem warmer which leads to mush.

DO IT MAN!!!
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:25 PM   #24
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The 302 is an integrated amp, meaning that it's a combined preamp/amp. Your new 2ch preamp would be redundant and unusable with the Jolida. FYI, using an integrated for 2ch is how Gremal handles his setup.


Someone was asking about Vincents a few weeks back and I didn't know anything about them. Do you have the TAS link?
Doh! Back to square 1 it looks like, but not entirely since I have plenty of options again.
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy Diamond View Post
Don't ever buy into solid state that "sounds" tube-like because they are just cutting the really high highs out of the top end to round out the wave and make it seem warmer which leads to mush.
But good tube amps don't sound warm, nor do they sound like the highs are chopped off. They're highly detailed--analytical even.
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:27 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Someone was asking about Vincents a few weeks back and I didn't know anything about them. Do you have the TAS link?
That was me, probably. :-)

Here's a summary page, from which you can download the very positive review in its entirety. The last sentence reads "When driven by a preamp that can fully exploit its strengths, the SP-331 does more things right than any other sub-$1000 amplifier Iíve heard. "
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:33 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by richteer View Post
That was me, probably. :-)

Here's a summary page, from which you can download the very positive review in its entirety. The last sentence reads "When driven by a preamp that can fully exploit its strengths, the SP-331 does more things right than any other sub-$1000 amplifier I’ve heard. "
Now that Vincent is a great looking amp, and I definitely think that will pass the WAF. Now, what's their actual website where you can buy one from or where they list the dealers, cause I'm not finding much from google.

edit: Just searched audioadvisor, they carry them w00t!

Last edited by Intamin; 08-19-2008 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:52 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richteer View Post
Here's a summary page, from which you can download the very positive review in its entirety. The last sentence reads "When driven by a preamp that can fully exploit its strengths, the SP-331 does more things right than any other sub-$1000 amplifier Iíve heard. "
Thanks! Enjoying that "What amps should I buy for my Statements?" thread? We should all have such problems.
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Old 08-20-2008, 04:50 AM   #29
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Thanks! Enjoying that "What amps should I buy for my Statements?" thread? We should all have such problems.
Indeed!

I briefly considered getting the Vincent amp, but had a strong desire for monoblocks. I couldn't afford a pair of ARC Ref 210s, so a pair of PrimaLuna ProLogue 7s (with silver faceplate, of course) it was!
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Old 08-20-2008, 03:38 PM   #30
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Indeed!

I briefly considered getting the Vincent amp, but had a strong desire for monoblocks. I couldn't afford a pair of ARC Ref 210s, so a pair of PrimaLuna ProLogue 7s (with silver faceplate, of course) it was!
Richteer, those are some nice monoblocks you picked up. Jealousy!
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Old 08-20-2008, 03:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gremal View Post
But good tube amps don't sound warm, nor do they sound like the highs are chopped off. They're highly detailed--analytical even.
Warm is a loose term and I never said that TUBE AMPS sound like the highs are chopped off.

Are the "analytical" amps you are running in pentode or triode??

Maybe the word RICH might be better for you. Either way, there is an unmistakable overall QUALITY (however you want to word it to feel comfortable) that solid state amps lack.

You know what I am talking about.
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Old 08-20-2008, 04:37 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Richteer, those are some nice monoblocks you picked up. Jealousy!
Thanks! It took a lot of saving (plus negotiations with the wife!), but was worth it. It'll keep me going until I finally get enough shekels together for something like the ARC Ref 210s (I like to make big, but infrequent, upgrades).

Let us know what you think of the Vincent if you decide to get it.
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Old 08-22-2008, 01:49 AM   #33
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mdabb, this one's for you!
http://www.carveraudiorepair.com/

Not to mention an entire forum on Carver stuff: http://carveraudio.com/phpBB3/index.php

and for fellow Bob Carver fans, check out these tube beauties: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=008
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Old 08-23-2008, 03:01 PM   #34
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Well, just put a bid in for the Vincent amp! It's on ebay, and I'm the only bidder. Big money no whammies!
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Old 08-23-2008, 03:14 PM   #35
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post
mdabb, this one's for you!
http://www.carveraudiorepair.com/
Thanks!!!

Quote:
Not to mention an entire forum on Carver stuff: http://carveraudio.com/phpBB3/index.php
Thanks again, I am already a member.
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:36 PM   #36
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Got outbid on the Vincent Does B&K make good amps, or no?
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Old 08-24-2008, 04:31 PM   #37
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Don't let the wattage fool you with tubes. A 100watt tube amp will flat out KILL a 300watt solid state amp any given day.
How that can be?
Power is power no matter where it come from.
To move, a speaker's diaphragm it's coil needs a given intensity to circulate through.
The speaker don't know if this intensity comes from a tube amp or a solid state one.
To give 300w RMS one speaker of 6 ohm needs 7 Ampere to circulate through it's coil (considering pure resistance). How a 100w amp can do that?
Perhaps the difference you note between tubes and solid state is due the different impedance of tubes respect semiconductors. Because of that the damping factor in tube amps is less, and the speaker moves more free. That means the speakers connected to tube amps must be better than ones connected a solid state, because the tube amps are less capable to correct them, especially near the resonance frequencies. That also could mean a major performance of the speakers connected a tube amps, but no more quality in my opinion.
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Old 08-24-2008, 04:48 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Got outbid on the Vincent Does B&K make good amps, or no?
Sorry, but I've no experience with B&K amps.
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Old 08-24-2008, 05:41 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pere View Post
How that can be?
Power is power no matter where it come from.....
An ongoing and fairly acrimonious debate. The most commonly accepted explanation seems to be that, as a consequence of their topology, tube amps clip in a manner which is more "acceptable" to the human ear i.e. when SS amps clip, the distortion is more objectionable than for a similar tube amp. This leads folks to believe that tube amps are more powerful, watt for watt.

There's lots of other discussion, including how each amp type delivers power to a speaker (real-world application), as opposed to a test bench. Like so many things audio, when extremely knowledgeable experts cannot agree, the rest of us are left to draw our own conclusions.
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Old 08-24-2008, 07:48 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by RUR View Post
An ongoing and fairly acrimonious debate. The most commonly accepted explanation seems to be that, as a consequence of their topology, tube amps clip in a manner which is more "acceptable" to the human ear i.e. when SS amps clip, the distortion is more objectionable than for a similar tube amp. This leads folks to believe that tube amps are more powerful, watt for watt.

There's lots of other discussion, including how each amp type delivers power to a speaker (real-world application), as opposed to a test bench. Like so many things audio, when extremely knowledgeable experts cannot agree, the rest of us are left to draw our own conclusions.
All that you said makes sense to me.
Sometimes, due my job, I experimented with amps connected to a pure resistances and a Oscilloscope.
Excited with a BF sine wave generator, when a solid state amp gets the point of saturation, the sine wave becomes a square wave very suddenly.
Making the same experiment with tube amps, you could see, at this point of saturation, that the sine wave starts deforming (flatten) progressively in a softer manner. Perhaps that is the cause of that perception. In this condition, near the point of saturation perhaps tube amps handle better the peaks than solid state ones of same power. But we are talking about conditions that an amp would never reach in a normal audition. In the middle of the curve must be the same behavior for both.
The only difference, in my modest opinion, as I said in my previous post, could be in the final stage behavior: the damping factor, that makes the tube amps give a more colored sound to the speakers (mainly in bass frequencies) than the solid state ones that give more flat sound because force speakers to obey with more precision.

What is the best? I think is a question of personal experience...
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