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Old 12-28-2008, 05:55 AM   #21
Audiophile_At_Birth Audiophile_At_Birth is offline
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First post. Love this sight.

I am almost finished with my set-up, it's been a rough one, I.E. Parents. Yes i'm only 18 and still live at home because I cannot, nor the parents, to move me out (economy). Sad time.

I have to say, since Blu-ray, I have had a hard time going back to the theatres. I'd prefer to watch movies in my room any time now, as do my friends (Had them over last night to watch the DK, and one said the Audio was far better in my room than when he saw it in theatres (Cinemark).

Tonight, Saw Tale of Despereaux, and all I can say is thank god I didn't pay for it. Poor PQ (mostly from numerous plays) Poor AQ (heavy front volume and overly exaggerated center highs that I thought my ears were about to bleed) and on top of that, the movie sucked period. And among yelling toddlers, talking kids, crying babies, and my Girlfriend texting, I couldn't wait to get home and watch a Blu-ray movie and order more online...
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Old 12-28-2008, 09:18 AM   #22
Blu-Buddha Blu-Buddha is offline
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Argh, you guys... You don't know what you're talking about. Use Wikipedia to get the specifics but in a nutshell... A properly maintained cinema showing 35mm, 2K or 4K digital projection will beat a home theatre with Blu-Ray hands down. Blu-Ray is 1K. 35mm film, due to it's organic nature, doesn't translate neatly to a resolution... and there's many variables but the concensus is that it's somewhere above 4K. Baraka, shot in 65mm was scanned at 8K resolution for the Blu-Ray release - but it could have been scanned at a higher res. with more detail. Film also offers higher contrast and deeper black levels without losing quality.

Plus look at the money that goes into a Cinema.
35mm projector/lamphouse = $12k. Digital Projector = $150k. Digital audio system + speakers = $35k. A single 35mm print costs around $3k - a 70mm print is more like $8k.

There's a reason this stuff is expensive and the quality shows.

If your local first-run theatre has lousy presentation, shows films scratched, out-of-focus, dirty, poor sound, etc., then you need to complain, your family needs to complain, your friends need to complain, you need to write letters to the paper, rant on Craigslist, whatever it takes. If you're not going to the theatre because they suck at presentation you need to let the theatre OWNERS know - not the floor staff, not the managers but the owners. No manager is going to tell his/her boss that customers aren't coming to the theatre because he/she can't control the quality of the presentation.

A 35mm print, properly maintained and projected from properly maintained equipment, will look as good on the last day of it's run as it did on the first - for thousands of shows.

Also, there are people with money who have home 35mm (even some 70mm) theatres. They pay hundreds if not thousands for a second-hand print. Why? Well some because of their love for the medium but others because of the quality. It can't be matched at home without above-said money.

I can't put it gently. It's the movie-goers own ****ing fault for the shitty presentation at a majority of the theatres. People just sit there and take it in the ass. They just don't say anything when something's wrong. Remember, most of the process is automated so if you don't say anything when something looks/sounds wrong it's likely nobody on staff will notice if the theatre is poorly run.

Prior to my working at the theatre I'm at now I was told they scratched the shit out of Cars opening day. For two months not a single customer asked for their money back. The day I started there we were showing Stardust with a big green scratch down the middle. I put a sign in the window. I apologized before the shows. Most of the comments were "I really didn't notice it." What? It was a ****ing foot wide! What's wrong with you people?!!!!!! The owner said he hadn't heard any complaints and wouldn't ask for a replacement because he didn't want to be charged $2500 for a new print and we only had it for one more week. Well I gave everyone passes with every ticket anyway so he probably lost more in passes. If one of my projectionists even puts the slightest scratch in a film he/she's back to working the floor and we cancel our staff screenings for a month.

Hope my rant was informative and gets you back to the theatre.

Please, complain about poor presentation to anyone who'll listen.
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Old 12-28-2008, 09:20 AM   #23
Blu-Buddha Blu-Buddha is offline
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Oh yeah, one more thing...

Hate the annoying kids, etc. at public showings? Just make friends with a staff member (or work at the theatre part time) and you'll get to see the movies in near privacy before opening day... For Free.

Last edited by Blu-Buddha; 12-28-2008 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:23 AM   #24
ixlegitballinxl ixlegitballinxl is offline
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LOL you can tell you work for a movie theater....


What about the "watching movies in your boxers? ah?
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixlegitballinxl View Post
What about the "watching movies in your boxers? ah?
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:13 PM   #26
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After seeing some movies in our local Rave theater then seeing them at home when they came out on Blu I can say without question they looked and sounded better at home. The problem with theaters is they don't have the equipment calibrated properly. The Dark Knight is a great example. It way way too dark in the theater but on the bluray at home it was way better. The other problem with going to the movies is inconsiderate people and their kids. I can enjoy the movie at home without people on cell phones and kids running around.
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:24 PM   #27
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The popcorn is much cheaper at home and +1 on the boxers
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:05 PM   #28
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With all due respect taking everything into account including a smaller home screen size(size doesn't matter).
I say home theatre all the way!
That is if one has invested in and properly set up quailty components.

Blu ray rocks!

$.02
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:24 PM   #29
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I saw Bolt in theater just last week. I paied 10.50$ to get it. Now it was quiet because this movie as been out for a while and all the kids are out seeing Madagascar. But I was very disapointed in the quality of the image. Colors look so faded.

Serious I cannot wait for it to be on BD, it's going to cost me $28 probably but colors will look stunning on my Samsung, I will be able to watch it again and again without having to worry it will degrade.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:21 PM   #30
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I also work at a cinema but I am in Australia. Anyway being the movie buff I am when I see a problem with the movie I immediately radio projection and see if they can fix it. But sometimes we cant especially scratches on the print. And I am also surprised how people sit there watching a movie with scratches on the prints, out of focus and dying bulbs that cause the screen to flicker. 2 of our 35mm projector bulbs are dying and havnt been replaced yet and over a course of 1 month we only got 1 complaint about it.
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:09 PM   #31
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Sound quality, my set up sounds infinitely better. PQ wise, I would give my tv a slight edge over the theater. I'd rather stay in personally.
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:17 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-Buddha View Post
Argh, you guys... You don't know what you're talking about. Use Wikipedia to get the specifics but in a nutshell... A properly maintained cinema showing 35mm, 2K or 4K digital projection will beat a home theatre with Blu-Ray hands down. Blu-Ray is 1K. 35mm film, due to it's organic nature, doesn't translate neatly to a resolution... and there's many variables but the concensus is that it's somewhere above 4K. Baraka, shot in 65mm was scanned at 8K resolution for the Blu-Ray release - but it could have been scanned at a higher res. with more detail. Film also offers higher contrast and deeper black levels without losing quality.

Plus look at the money that goes into a Cinema.
35mm projector/lamphouse = $12k. Digital Projector = $150k. Digital audio system + speakers = $35k. A single 35mm print costs around $3k - a 70mm print is more like $8k.

There's a reason this stuff is expensive and the quality shows.

If your local first-run theatre has lousy presentation, shows films scratched, out-of-focus, dirty, poor sound, etc., then you need to complain, your family needs to complain, your friends need to complain, you need to write letters to the paper, rant on Craigslist, whatever it takes. If you're not going to the theatre because they suck at presentation you need to let the theatre OWNERS know - not the floor staff, not the managers but the owners. No manager is going to tell his/her boss that customers aren't coming to the theatre because he/she can't control the quality of the presentation.

A 35mm print, properly maintained and projected from properly maintained equipment, will look as good on the last day of it's run as it did on the first - for thousands of shows.

Also, there are people with money who have home 35mm (even some 70mm) theatres. They pay hundreds if not thousands for a second-hand print. Why? Well some because of their love for the medium but others because of the quality. It can't be matched at home without above-said money.

I can't put it gently. It's the movie-goers own ****ing fault for the shitty presentation at a majority of the theatres. People just sit there and take it in the ass. They just don't say anything when something's wrong. Remember, most of the process is automated so if you don't say anything when something looks/sounds wrong it's likely nobody on staff will notice if the theatre is poorly run.

Prior to my working at the theatre I'm at now I was told they scratched the shit out of Cars opening day. For two months not a single customer asked for their money back. The day I started there we were showing Stardust with a big green scratch down the middle. I put a sign in the window. I apologized before the shows. Most of the comments were "I really didn't notice it." What? It was a ****ing foot wide! What's wrong with you people?!!!!!! The owner said he hadn't heard any complaints and wouldn't ask for a replacement because he didn't want to be charged $2500 for a new print and we only had it for one more week. Well I gave everyone passes with every ticket anyway so he probably lost more in passes. If one of my projectionists even puts the slightest scratch in a film he/she's back to working the floor and we cancel our staff screenings for a month.

Hope my rant was informative and gets you back to the theatre.

Please, complain about poor presentation to anyone who'll listen.

not enough people care imo, my local movie theater is quite horible, im lucky if the damn screen is actually lined up, the audio is horrible and the picture quality is faded. i could complain till im blue in the face but since enough ppl just dont care, ill stay home with my blu's

about an hr away there is a nice movie theater, it has an imax in it but even the regular theater is very nice, picture quality is very good as is the sound system, but its an hr away...
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Old 12-28-2008, 05:24 PM   #33
Brain Sturgeon Brain Sturgeon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-Buddha View Post
Argh, you guys... You don't know what you're talking about. Use Wikipedia to get the specifics but in a nutshell... A properly maintained cinema showing 35mm, 2K or 4K digital projection will beat a home theatre with Blu-Ray hands down.
This is true, but try finding a properly maintained cinema with pristine 35mm prints, or properly set-up 2k or 4k projectors. From my experience in the midwest of the U.S., these are rare. I will take good odds that my home system bests most of the cinemas in my area.


Quote:
Blu-Ray is 1K.
This is not correct. Blu-ray is pretty much the equivalent of 2k (1080x1920 vs 2048◊1152). Here is an estimation of the pixel counts:



Quote:
35mm film, due to it's organic nature, doesn't translate neatly to a resolution... and there's many variables but the concensus is that it's somewhere above 4K. Baraka, shot in 65mm was scanned at 8K resolution for the Blu-Ray release - but it could have been scanned at a higher res. with more detail. Film also offers higher contrast and deeper black levels without losing quality.
Yes, a pristine 35mm or 65mm print is nigh unbeatable from a resolution standpoint, but finding a pristine print being shown at a theater is extremely difficult. Heck, the studio's archival prints are frequently substandard; hence the need for restorations for films even as storied as the Godfather series.

Quote:
Plus look at the money that goes into a Cinema.
35mm projector/lamphouse = $12k. Digital Projector = $150k. Digital audio system + speakers = $35k. A single 35mm print costs around $3k - a 70mm print is more like $8k.

There's a reason this stuff is expensive and the quality shows.
Yes, theater equipment can cost a lot of money, but the presentation is frequently not up to par with what they spent.

Quote:
If your local first-run theatre has lousy presentation, shows films scratched, out-of-focus, dirty, poor sound, etc., then you need to complain, your family needs to complain, your friends need to complain, you need to write letters to the paper, rant on Craigslist, whatever it takes. If you're not going to the theatre because they suck at presentation you need to let the theatre OWNERS know - not the floor staff, not the managers but the owners. No manager is going to tell his/her boss that customers aren't coming to the theatre because he/she can't control the quality of the presentation.
Been there, done that. Believe me, this usually falls on deaf ears or, if the manager is nice enough, an offer to provide free passes to another movie, which will also be invariably poorly presented at that theater.

Quote:
A 35mm print, properly maintained and projected from properly maintained equipment, will look as good on the last day of it's run as it did on the first - for thousands of shows.
Yes, but these conditions are extremely rare for theaters these days.

Quote:
Also, there are people with money who have home 35mm (even some 70mm) theatres. They pay hundreds if not thousands for a second-hand print. Why? Well some because of their love for the medium but others because of the quality. It can't be matched at home without above-said money.
Very true, but for convenience sake, unless you are very high placed in the movie business, you are not going to be able to get decent 35mm or 65 mm prints of film easily. As opposed to driving to your local Best Buy or Walmart for a BD.

Quote:
I can't put it gently. It's the movie-goers own ****ing fault for the shitty presentation at a majority of the theatres. People just sit there and take it in the ass. They just don't say anything when something's wrong. Remember, most of the process is automated so if you don't say anything when something looks/sounds wrong it's likely nobody on staff will notice if the theatre is poorly run.
Disagree-- I put my money where my mouth is. That's why after my many complaints about the poor quality of the movie presentation has fallen upon deaf ears, I no longer go to the movies.

Quote:
Prior to my working at the theatre I'm at now I was told they scratched the shit out of Cars opening day. For two months not a single customer asked for their money back. The day I started there we were showing Stardust with a big green scratch down the middle. I put a sign in the window. I apologized before the shows. Most of the comments were "I really didn't notice it." What? It was a ****ing foot wide! What's wrong with you people?!!!!!! The owner said he hadn't heard any complaints and wouldn't ask for a replacement because he didn't want to be charged $2500 for a new print and we only had it for one more week. Well I gave everyone passes with every ticket anyway so he probably lost more in passes. If one of my projectionists even puts the slightest scratch in a film he/she's back to working the floor and we cancel our staff screenings for a month.

Hope my rant was informative and gets you back to the theatre.

Please, complain about poor presentation to anyone who'll listen.
Kudos to you, but your attitude is not the attitude of most theater staff/managers, who could give a hoot about what you thought of the quality of the picture/sound-- as long as you were able to "see" the movie.

This may change as movie theater houses start to notice the drop off in attendance/box office, and you can see some of this in certain areas with boutique theaters with high quality presentation equipment, improved seating and sightlines, and "gourmet" food and drink; but most of the effort in these facilities is about the atmosphere and comfort, and less about the picture quality, although it is still likely much better than the "common" theaters you see out there.

Here is a telling anecdote posted at AVS by Rob Hahn, a camera operator and director of photography (see http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0353963/ ):

Quote:
The single worse experience I have as a cinematographer is seeing my work projected in a local theater. You know I work my ass off for months & months lighting each shot, attending to minute details, then later timing the movie (color-correcting each shot, adjusting the levels) only to watch the final product being butchered by old, dark bulbs, out of focus lenses, and misframed. Basically, (and I'm not the only Director of Photography that feels this way), once the release prints are made, I let it go, meaning I completely drop my expectation of ever seeing my film properly projected again. The only time I expect the possibility of a good showing is at the premiere. Why? Because they usually show one of the 5 prints that were made off the original negative and they usually show it at a fine theater (like the huge screening room on Paramount's lot). I usually get a chance to pick the exact print I want shown, but even then, under this very carefully monitored situation, one can't relax.

When "The Score" was shown at Paramount (using a print off the negative), the place was packed with stars & the industry elite (you know, a red carpet affair). Being Marlon Brando's last movie (and also starring Robert De Niro & Edward Norton) there was a lot of interest. I'm very proud of the look of this movie & I wanted this screening, at least just this one time, to go well. So did I relax? No. I sat in the balcony (next to Conrad Hall) on the aisle. I wanted quick access to the projection booth. Sure enough at the 1st reel changeover (this was an anamorphic film), the picture was out of focus! Having gone through this many times before with other films, I expected this, so I jumped out of my seat and flew into the booth; the Paramount projectionist was rewinding the first reel. I gently yelled, "The picture's soft!" "Oh really? It was fine this afternoon?" He actually let me focus the projector myself.

Jeesh! Even during this one event, an event that should have had the odds stacked in its favor of going beautifully, there were problems. Unfortunately, one can't only worry about dim bulbs and lazy projectionists. The film prints themselves can be the problem. 2000 prints are made off of an Interpostive (which itself was made off an internegative, which itself was made off of the original negative). I sometimes ask the studio if I can spot check these prints. Sure, they say, but we won't pay you. OK with me.

So I sit & watch every 50th print. You can't believe the variation I see. Print #150 has a green 4th reel. So I check print #149 to see if there's a pattern. There isn't. On print 149, reel 4 is fine, but reel 2 is 3 points too bright. When I bring this up with the lab, they say, it's within tolerances. When I ask the studio to fix it, here's what they say: "Red, green, blue, yellow... it doesn't matter - the picture will make money." I kid you not.

So like I mentioned, I've learned that when a film I've shot is released, I let it go and have no expectations (unless it's shown at the Ziegfeld in NY - there _are_ great movie houses). So what is my only hope? The Hi-Def transfer and the hope it will be properly projected in a theater like Art's. In order for that experience to be better than what one can get in a commercial house, the screen should be big, which gets us back to your 14' screen. My 65" image, though at times heartbreakingly beautiful, just can't do what your theater provides. When I saw "King Kong" (the Empire Building sequence), that did it for me. I have to have that.
He is referring to Art Sonneborn's home theater in this quote-- a fabulous room with a 14' scope screen lit with a Sim2 HT5000.

Anyways, to end this long post, I'll take presentations in BD in my theater over any theater in my area, any day. The only advantage that I see in theaters over my home theater room is being able to see the film on release day, versus several months after...

Also, if you go to the theater, you might have to deal with this:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/27/...ing/index.html
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Old 12-28-2008, 05:37 PM   #34
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While it is true movie theater resolutions are a lot higher than Blu Ray (2k-4K resolution) you don't need a resolution that high on a small HDTV. You would not see the difference between 1080p or 4k resolution on even a 120 inch tv let alone anything smaller. You only need such a high resolution on theater sized screens.
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Old 12-28-2008, 05:41 PM   #35
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Depending on the movie and what theater in my area is presenting it. Admission prices and prices on drinks and snacks are typically more then I want to spend. It has to be something I really want to see like The Dark Knight or Iron Man to get me to the theater. Other wise I would usually wait for the BD to be released then get it from Netflix.
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Old 12-29-2008, 11:43 PM   #36
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But thing with 35mm is it never actually gets shown on prints in its highest resolution. The 35mm negative is scanned at 2K and then edited on a PC then printed at the resolution of 2K. And it's rare to find a 4K scan Sony only recently started doing it with movies like Hancock and Quantum of Solace.
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Old 12-29-2008, 11:48 PM   #37
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There are some movies you just have to see in theaters.

I love the 3D technology these days. Have to see that in theaters.
Movies that need to go Blu. The Ref, Open Range, Life As A House, Great Outdoors, True Lies, Joe Dirt, Maximum Overdrive, Pool Hall Junkies, Brain Candy.

T.V. shows that need to go Blu Man Vs. Wild, Survivor Man, Dirty Jobs, NHL Winter Classic 2009.
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:43 AM   #38
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Considering how fast movies are coming out on dvd/blu ray from the theater.. I would rather wait and buy it

movie + drink + popcorn = same price as the movie on blu ray

I'd rather own it, and watch it 1080p style
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:23 AM   #39
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I still love the experience of seeing a movie in a proper movie theater setting, but I equally love my home theater.

As RiseDarthVader and Brain Sturgeon pointed out, most theaters that project digitally are showing 2K resolution Ė which blu-ray basically matches. And keep in mind that picture quality is achieved by more than just pixel resolution: color, contrast, brightness, even frame-rate all contribute to the perceived quality of the image.

What movie theaters still have going for them is screen size, and the group experience. Most people canít invite 200 of their closest friends to come over and watch a flick
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:44 AM   #40
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Brain Sturgeon, thanks for the informative post! Your point about the final resolution of a release print is well taken.

I guess it all boils down to preference. I would rather see a movie presented properly in the theatre, warts and all, then a pristine version of the original at home. I'm never quite fully immersed in the film in my home theatre as I am in a cinema.

For example, in our projection booth we have a pristine 35mm Technicolor print of an older western. Quite frankly it's a shitty movie but I watch it twice a year or so because it looks so beautiful - and the mono sound is perfectly mixed. I never think to get up to pee or anything - I'm fully immersed in the beauty and majesty of this crappy movie.

I would love to see a Blu-Ray in the theatre to compare but this title's not on Blu yet, nor do we have a digital projector in this theatre. I guess that it wouldn't be a fair comparison for the basis of this discussion.

I also never realised that HD content at 1920x1080 was so close to 2K at 2048x1080. Somewhere I got it in my head that it was 1920x1080 doubled or something close to it.

I just hate reading that people prefer seeing a movie at home as opposed to the theatre - it just boils down to the fact that they've never seen a movie presented properly. What's worse is that it's getting harder and harder to do so.

As you can tell, I love film. I love the medium. Handling film, presenting it properly, the care and maintenance of both the film and machinery, performing near-perfect changeovers in the two-projector booths - it's what I love doing and it's tough to see it going the way of the dodo. I bought my first projector at age 11 and built a Super8mm theater in my parent's attic when I was 14 (when Alien was first released).

I should add that I rarely sit in the theatre with a real audience - most of them are after-hours showings - so I am a bit biased!
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