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Old 01-03-2009, 07:36 PM   #1
Fred_L Fred_L is offline
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Default Burn HD content to DVD

Hello,

is it possible to burn a 1080p movie in a PC format such as AVI on a DVD in a way that the DVD will be readable by a bluray player (a samsung BD-P1000 in my case). More precisely what I want is to burn an HD movie file smaller than 4.5 gig without loss of quality to a DVD, I don't want to downscale a full bluray movie to make it fit on a DVD.

Thank you !
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:38 PM   #2
dadkins dadkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_L View Post
Hello,

is it possible to burn a 1080p movie in a PC format such as AVI on a DVD in a way that the DVD will be readable by a bluray player (a samsung BD-P1000 in my case). More precisely what I want is to burn an HD movie file smaller than 4.5 gig without loss of quality to a DVD, I don't want to downscale a full bluray movie to make it fit on a DVD.

Thank you !
Burn HD to a DVD, sure!
Smaller than 4.5GB without loss, depends on original file size.
I have taken *BD quality video and reduced it in size by 1/3 and it is REAL close to original.

*DISCLAIMER - IT WAS NOT A BLU-RAY!!! Don't want my head bitten off!
VGN-AR190G - UJ-210S BD Burner
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:04 PM   #3
wallendo wallendo is offline
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You will need to save your video as an AVCHD disc. I use Toast on my mac to do this. Nero, and other programs, will do the same on a PC.

These discs work great on my PS3. Toast only seems to burn 1080i. I don't know the Nero specs.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:34 AM   #4
Fred_L Fred_L is offline
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Quote:
Burn HD to a DVD, sure!
Smaller than 4.5GB without loss, depends on original file size.
I have taken *BD quality video and reduced it in size by 1/3 and it is REAL close to original.
Sorry, my first post was ambiguous, the HD clip I want to burn is smaller than the media size, 4.5g in this instance. I was only looking for a way to make it playable from a DVD with a blu-ray player.

Quote:
You will need to save your video as an AVCHD disc. I use Toast on my mac to do this. Nero, and other programs, will do the same on a PC.
I'll try this out with nero. Thanks.
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:42 PM   #5
plee plee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_L View Post
Sorry, my first post was ambiguous, the HD clip I want to burn is smaller than the media size, 4.5g in this instance. I was only looking for a way to make it playable from a DVD with a blu-ray player.



I'll try this out with nero. Thanks.
You can also use tsMuxer to create the necessary files so you can burn them to a DVD. You probably will need to lower the bitrate of your video to about 10mbps otherwise you might get jerky playback...
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:01 PM   #6
nmycon nmycon is offline
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correct me if im wrong, but there is no difference between the video format on a DVD and a BD (except of course the DVD video is compressed more than the BD)

the only difference between the 2 is that the video file on a BD is about 7X as big as that on a DVD because higher resolutions have bigger file sizes... its common sense

so if The Dark Knight is 7 GB on DVD (for the sake of keeping things simple), on the BD it would be almost 50 GB

now if there were 50 GB DVDs availible, you could burn it in HD on that DVD, but for a disc with a diameter of only (about) 4.5" to have a 50 GB capacity it would need to have about 7 layers

the red DVD layers cannot penetrate 7 layers on a disc, they can only penetrate 2, blu ray lasers are capable of penetrating at least 7 layers, hence, larger storage capacity

again, this is the impression i got, correct me if im wrong
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:11 PM   #7
dadkins dadkins is offline
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DVDs are VOB file type.
Blu-ray are m2ts.
The main movie on a DVD is 5-8(more?) VOB files.
The main movie on most BDs is a single 18-46GB m2ts file.
The encoding of a Blu-ray is higher bitrate & higher resolution(18-40mbps vs 5-8mbps & 1920x1080 vs 720x480), hence larger size.

Blu-ray uses a Blue/violet laser that runs closer and focuses to a smaller point so more data can fit on the same size disc.

You can burn BD *type* files(HD high bitrate m2ts files) to a DVD, but for it to play the disc has to spin WAY faster than 1x to achieve the read rate for the BD type video to play.
STB disc players probably won't spin that fast - most computer drives can.
Also, spinning that fast and reading data that fast, the DVD will not run very long - for any semi-decent runtime, you will need several DVDs.

I did it once as an experiment(don't ask) and my poor laptop drive was humming when I played the DVD!
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Last edited by dadkins; 01-04-2009 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:36 PM   #8
Fred_L Fred_L is offline
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Weirdly I posted a reply two days ago but it seems like it didn't make it...

I tried burning a bluray/AVCHD sample to a dvd without success. Here is what I did.

1. I encoded my HD AVI samble into a .264 AVCHD file using the x264 codec
2. I coverted the .264 file to the bluray file architecture using tsMuxeR
3. I burned it using nero in UDF 2.50 format

And it did not worked...

Am I missing something obvious ? Should I convert to m2ts directly instead ?

As for the DVD spinning speed, it was an issue I had not thinked about, but still, by reducing the quality a little bit I guess you can achieve some pretty decent image quality without spinning the DVD like crazy.
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Old 01-05-2009, 02:45 PM   #9
dadkins dadkins is offline
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I have had success converting HD video to "MPEG4 AVI V2" - Total Video Converter - and reducing size to below 1/3 of original.
Even at 1/3 of original, file sizes may be a bit on the large size.
Plus, your DVD player will need to be able to play a wide range of files - AVI in particular.
Video still plays at 14217kbps - 2x DVD?

I play all discs via my VAIO laptops - they will play anything except HD DVDs.
No idea if these things will play in a STB, but I'm sure there is a software that will add Autorun to them before burning.
Not sure, but ConvertXtoDVD might work with HD video - or maybe soon it will.

Haven't tried - yet, sorry!
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Last edited by dadkins; 01-05-2009 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:34 PM   #10
zicmubleu zicmubleu is offline
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Default some more clarity about HD on DVD please

Maybe dadkins can explain this some more, I don't have a clear picture of this yet. When you want to playback HD video I thought you would have to use a Blu-ray, or HD-DVD, player; a DVD player is only capable of SD video. Now with upconverting and an HDMI interface maybe things change a bit, but upconverting is not really HD from a viewing standpoint. So when you say play it back on a DVD player do you mean a Blu-ray or truly a DVD player?

Also I posted a related question on another thread that seems to be ignored at this time. Basically does anyone have an idea of what file format to use when creating files with Sony Vegas 8 Pro to be authored in Sony Architect for Blu-ray burning HD? There are many choices of file formats to use for output in the Vegas program but everything I have tried seems to require recompression when authored which is something I want to avoid. If this question should be on its own thread let me know.

Thanks for any suggestions and some more detail about HD on DVD with DVD player.
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:45 PM   #11
Fred_L Fred_L is offline
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Quote:
Plus, your DVD player will need to be able to play a wide range of files - AVI in particular.
Just to clarify I am using a blu-ray player (samsung BD-P1000) which, according to others thread I read (sorry I can't find the link) should be compatible with AVCHD.
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Old 01-05-2009, 05:00 PM   #12
dadkins dadkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zicmubleu View Post
Maybe dadkins can explain this some more, I don't have a clear picture of this yet. When you want to playback HD video I thought you would have to use a Blu-ray, or HD-DVD, player; a DVD player is only capable of SD video. Now with upconverting and an HDMI interface maybe things change a bit, but upconverting is not really HD from a viewing standpoint. So when you say play it back on a DVD player do you mean a Blu-ray or truly a DVD player?

Also I posted a related question on another thread that seems to be ignored at this time. Basically does anyone have an idea of what file format to use when creating files with Sony Vegas 8 Pro to be authored in Sony Architect for Blu-ray burning HD? There are many choices of file formats to use for output in the Vegas program but everything I have tried seems to require recompression when authored which is something I want to avoid. If this question should be on its own thread let me know.

Thanks for any suggestions and some more detail about HD on DVD with DVD player.
*Blu-ray type* files(m2ts) that are burned directly to a DVD will play on a computer drive, it just has to spin the DVD at a slighly higher speed to read the data fast enough.
I don't think a Set Top Box(STB) will spin a DVD fast enough for the data to be read.
To do this, the discs will need to be read at 2-4x or higher(4 x 9mbps = 36mbps)

Conversion of high-bitrate HD video can be converted to other containers and/or formats and burned to standard DVD-R blanks, but to get anything close to HD quality out of the playback, the data will have to be read at speeds above the "normal" 5-9mbps of a DVD.


The experiment I did still required a Blu-ray player software to read the *Blu-ray type* m2ts files from the DVD.
The converted MPEG4 AVI v2 files were still played on a computer drive @ 14217mbps(~14mbps) - well in excess of 1x DVD playback.

There is a reason I/we prefer using PCs for video playback - variety!
The ability to play things STBs cannot.

You can burn just about anything to a DVD - files sizes permitting, the problem lies in playback.
STBs, DVD or Blu-ray, I don't think can spin a disc that fast - but I could be wrong.

Trust me, it isn't worth the hassle - even if you can get it to play.
Get a BD burner and burn to BD.
Plenty of space, can read at 54mbps(or more) and will play in a Blu-ray STB if authored properly.
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:20 PM   #13
Bizdady Bizdady is online now
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I got a couple MKV files, I just extracted it out to 1gb mp4 piece files and stream with the ps3 to my tv.
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:34 PM   #14
Fred_L Fred_L is offline
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Great but I don't own a PS3 so this does not really help me
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:51 PM   #15
Bizdady Bizdady is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_L View Post
Great but I don't own a PS3 so this does not really help me
Have you tried MKV2VOB? It can also split it into VOBs that you can burn on to disc.
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:37 PM   #16
zicmubleu zicmubleu is offline
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Default Using a Blu-ray burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadkins View Post
*Blu-ray type* files(m2ts) that are burned directly to a DVD will play on a computer drive, it just has to spin the DVD at a slighly higher speed to read the data fast enough.
I don't think a Set Top Box(STB) will spin a DVD fast enough for the data to be read.
To do this, the discs will need to be read at 2-4x or higher(4 x 9mbps = 36mbps)

Conversion of high-bitrate HD video can be converted to other containers and/or formats and burned to standard DVD-R blanks, but to get anything close to HD quality out of the playback, the data will have to be read at speeds above the "normal" 5-9mbps of a DVD.


The experiment I did still required a Blu-ray player software to read the *Blu-ray type* m2ts files from the DVD.
The converted MPEG4 AVI v2 files were still played on a computer drive @ 14217mbps(~14mbps) - well in excess of 1x DVD playback.

There is a reason I/we prefer using PCs for video playback - variety!
The ability to play things STBs cannot.

You can burn just about anything to a DVD - files sizes permitting, the problem lies in playback.
STBs, DVD or Blu-ray, I don't think can spin a disc that fast - but I could be wrong.

Trust me, it isn't worth the hassle - even if you can get it to play.
Get a BD burner and burn to BD.
Plenty of space, can read at 54mbps(or more) and will play in a Blu-ray STB if authored properly.
dadkins you mention burning the disc with Blu-ray software to a DVD disc, is it safe to assume this means using a Blu-ray burner, only the media is DVD? I have done this, burn a DVD with a Blu-ray burner to produce jpeg slideshows that play on a Blu-ray STB in HD format, just no menu capability. Since a DVD burner will often burn at several times the normal speed it wasn't clear to me what you meant. My software requires me to use a Blu-ray burner, as far as I understood, but can render either a DVD version or a Blu-ray version onto a DVD disc; obviously with a lot shorter playback in Blu-ray version.
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:51 PM   #17
plee plee is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_L View Post
Weirdly I posted a reply two days ago but it seems like it didn't make it...

I tried burning a bluray/AVCHD sample to a dvd without success. Here is what I did.

1. I encoded my HD AVI samble into a .264 AVCHD file using the x264 codec
2. I coverted the .264 file to the bluray file architecture using tsMuxeR
3. I burned it using nero in UDF 2.50 format

And it did not worked...

Am I missing something obvious ? Should I convert to m2ts directly instead ?

As for the DVD spinning speed, it was an issue I had not thinked about, but still, by reducing the quality a little bit I guess you can achieve some pretty decent image quality without spinning the DVD like crazy.
what are your encoder settings? could you play it on your computer?
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:27 PM   #18
Fred_L Fred_L is offline
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Quote:
what are your encoder settings? could you play it on your computer?
x264 has a lot of settings, I used the default for AVCHD. As for txMuxeR I think I didn't change anything from the default provided with txMuxerUI appart from the output format which I set to bluray. Would have to check on my PC tonight (I'm at work right now)

I could play the .264 file with sound correctly in media player classic. I did not try to play the bluray file architecture output from tsMuxeR as I have no soft to do it. Is their a free one so I could try it ?
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:38 PM   #19
odin24 odin24 is offline
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@ Fred L

tsMuxeR creates sort of a Blu-ray/AVCHD hybrid structure, it's hard to explain. So technically it's not AVCHD, this may be why your Samsung is rejecting it. Try using AVCHDMe on your tsMuxeR output, burn to DVD using the UDF 2.5 file system... whichever burning app of choice. I suggest using a DVD-RW instead of making a possible coaster of a DVD+/-R.

Also, tsMuxeR creates a "buggy" output, data contained in the CLPI files are not accurate, this AVCHDMe app corrects it as well. This app really was geared for the PS3, playing AVCHD content from an external drive FAT32 drive or USB stick.

The Panasonics are extremely picky on what "AVCHD" content is played too, really the Sony's are the most forgiving when it comes to AVCHD/BD content on DVDs.

Try what I suggested, if it doesn't work I may still be able to help with other solutions.

To use AVCHDMe:

1. Launch AVCHDMe
2. Navigate to the BDMV folder of the tsMuxeR output, select OK
3. Keep the "Fix CLPI" and "8.3 file name format" checked.
4. Apply

EDIT: Also, your video stream must be a AVCHD compliant resolution... exactly 1920x1080, 1440x1080, or 1280x720. Any other resolution may not display properly or at all.
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:57 PM   #20
odin24 odin24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_L View Post
x264 has a lot of settings, I used the default for AVCHD. As for txMuxeR I think I didn't change anything from the default provided with txMuxerUI appart from the output format which I set to bluray. Would have to check on my PC tonight (I'm at work right now)

I could play the .264 file with sound correctly in media player classic. I did not try to play the bluray file architecture output from tsMuxeR as I have no soft to do it. Is their a free one so I could try it ?

The only (free) way I can think of is to create an ISO image... UDF 2.5 of course (use IMGBurn), then load using a virtual drive, there are several free virtual drives... just google it. Play as if it were a disk in your PC.

The only problem with this is the Blu-ray output will certainly play fine in your PC, not neccesarily in your Samsung though, so it's not the best trial and error method.
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