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Old 01-16-2009, 07:15 PM   #1
billypoe billypoe is offline
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Default Criterion Collection Question. . .

I've watched a handful of Criterion's BD's, and I was wondering if anyone can answer this question:

Why is it that most of their BD's only come in Mono or Stereo? I've watched three that I know of--Man Who Fell to Earth, The Third Man, and The Last Emperor--that failed to have 5.1 and now it seems that the April releases will have Mono as well.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:17 PM   #2
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That's how they were released.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desmond View Post
That's how they were released.
If you mean that's how they were released theatrically then that is not a sufficient answer. Do you think Dr. No was released with a DTS HD soundtrack when it came out in the 60's?

Why aren't they giving their movies the whole treatment?
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:23 PM   #4
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They release films as they were originally presented theatrically. Yes, it is a sufficient answer.

Major studios, like those who own the Bond films (using your example), have way more money to fabricate phony surround mixes for mono films. Criterion, being a much smaller company, does not.

Not only is this "failure" (as you ignorantly put it) for budgetary reasons, but it is to faithfully recreate the filmmaker's intentions when presenting the movie on home video.

Also, do you have any idea how difficult it is to make a phony 5.1 track from mono elements that are decades old?
Quote:
Originally Posted by billypoe View Post
Why aren't they giving their movies the whole treatment?
This statement alone proves you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Last edited by benricci; 01-16-2009 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:25 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by benricci View Post
They release films as they were originally presented theatrically. Yes, it is a sufficient answer.
So will we ever hear The Last Emperor in 5.1 HD?
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:27 PM   #6
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The only time they do 5.1 remix is with the director/company supervision
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:32 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by billypoe View Post
So will we ever hear The Last Emperor in 5.1 HD?
Probably not. It's a stereo film and that's how it's gonna be presented by Criterion. Please note: it's a DTS HD master audio stereo mix, so you ARE hearing it in high def audio.

The only time modifications are made to the aspect ratio or soundtrack are when they are filmmaker-approved.

Why are you so hung up on a 5.1 mix for this movie?

Last edited by benricci; 01-16-2009 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benricci View Post
They release films as they were originally presented theatrically. Yes, it is a sufficient answer.

Major studios, like those who own the Bond films (using your example), have way more money to fabricate phony surround mixes for mono films. Criterion, being a much smaller company, does not.

Not only is this "failure" (as you ignorantly put it) for budgetary reasons, but it is to faithfully recreate the filmmaker's intentions when presenting the movie on home video.

Also, do you have any idea how difficult it is to make a phony 5.1 track from mono elements that are decades old?

This statement alone proves you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
. Of course I don't know what I'm talking about. That's why I posted the question. If I had the slightest idea of why and how the company worked, I probably wouldn't have posted the thread. Don't you think so?
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Last edited by Beta Man; 01-16-2009 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:38 PM   #9
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I think we have an internet message board 'first'. Someone who admits that they don't know what they are talking about.

Bravo, sir.

Little tip - if you have no idea what Criterion is, what they do or why they do it - check out a little thing called the 'search' button.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benricci View Post
Probably not. It's a stereo film and that's how it's gonna be presented by Criterion. Please note: it's a DTS HD master audio stereo mix, so you ARE hearing it in high def audio.

Why are you so hung up on a 5.1 mix for this movie?
I'm not hung up on that movie having a 5.1 mix. There are a few scenes that come to mind that would have benefited from it. I just hate the idea of such an epic movie being in stereo.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benricci View Post
I think we have an internet message board 'first'. Someone who admits that they don't know what they are talking about.

Bravo, sir.

Little tip - if you have no idea what Criterion is, what they do or why they do it - check out a little thing called the 'search' button.
I know what and who they are. I know for a fact that they don't necessarily make their movies the way they were released. I also know they have the oddest choices of what deserves to be put into their catalog. Besides, starting a thread is more engaging than searching.
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Last edited by billypoe; 01-16-2009 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billypoe View Post
I know what and who they are. I know for a fact that they don't necessarily make their movies the way they were released. I also know they have the oddest choices of what deserves to be put into their catalog. Besides, starting a thread is more engaging than searching.
There are two things to keep in mind when it comes to Criterion:

1. They opt to preserve the original look of the picture (sound, aspect ratio, color-scheme, etc).

2. Whenever possible their releases are approved by the director. Obviously, this has resulted in a few films being slightly modified due to their creator's final vision (if you wish to put it that way).

Pro-B
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist View Post
There are two things to keep in mind when it comes to Criterion:

1. They opt to preserve the original look of the picture (sound, aspect ratio, color-scheme, etc).

2. Whenever possible their releases are approved by the director. Obviously, this has resulted in a few films being slightly modified due to their creator's final vision (if you wish to put it that way).

Pro-B
Thanks for all of the input, but I have one more question. Why did they ever choose to release Armageddon and The Rock? Is it just me, or do those two movies stick out like a sore thumb in their catalog?
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist View Post

1. They opt to preserve the original look of the picture (sound, aspect ratio, color-scheme, etc).

Pro-B
Then why did they allow The Last Emperor to be cropped from 2.35:1 down to 2:1?

...and don't give me that "Vittorio Storaro said it was intended to be that way from the beginning" bullshit. He wants every film to fit into his Univision idea and they let him get away with it yet again. It's worse than what George Lucas has done to the original Star Wars movies.

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Old 01-16-2009, 08:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IvenFaint View Post
Then why did they allow this movie to be cropped from 2.35:1 down to 2:1?

...and don't give me that "Vittorio Storaro said it was intended to be that way from the beginning" bullshit. He wants every film to fit into his Univision idea and they let him get away with it yet again. It's worse than what George Lucas has done to the original Star Wars movies.
It seems that the second part of pro-bassoonist's post answers that question, if you read that far...

"2. Whenever possible their releases are approved by the director. Obviously, this has resulted in a few films being slightly modified due to their creator's final vision (if you wish to put it that way)."

I tell ya... these continuous whinings about the aspect ratio of "The Last Emperor" are so tiresome. Storaro wanted 2:1 and Bertolucci said that Storaro could have the final say on the matter. So, it's pointless to keep bringing it up.

Also, if it's that big of a deal, you can always find a copy of the Artisan Entertainment release from 2003 that has an aspect ratio of 2.29:1... or, you can always import a different region's copy that has the 2.35:1 aspect ratio.

CC
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:25 PM   #16
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Sorry, but if you really believe that story, you're quite gullible. I won't be buying The Last Emperor on blu ray for this reason.

Modified slightly? Have you seen this version? The panning and scanning is quite distracting.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IvenFaint View Post
Sorry, but if you really believe that story, you're quite gullible. I won't be buying The Last Emperor on blu ray for this reason.

Modified slightly? Have you seen this version? The panning and scanning is quite distracting.
Oh shut up.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IvenFaint View Post
Sorry, but if you really believe that story, you're quite gullible. I won't be buying The Last Emperor on blu ray for this reason.

Modified slightly? Have you seen this version? The panning and scanning is quite distracting.
Sorry, I'm gonna trust Criterion's judgment along with the cinemetographer, as opposed to some random dude on the internet who had nothing to do with the making of the film.

From the blu-ray insert:
"All-new, restored high-definition digital transfer, supervised and approved by cinematographer Vittorio Storaro"
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benricci View Post
Sorry, I'm gonna trust Criterion's judgment along with the cinemetographer, as opposed to some random dude on the internet who had nothing to do with the making of the film.

From the blu-ray insert:
"All-new, restored high-definition digital transfer, supervised and approved by cinematographer Vittorio Storaro"
Agreed.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:33 PM   #20
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Hey that's fine. If you guys can tolerate it, knock yourselves out.
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