Speaker cable

[SPH]

I was always under the impression that bigger is better, am I wrong?

I am using 8 or 10 copper on my front sound stage and 12 on my surrounds.

[fronn]

It certainly doesn't hurt.

12 AWG is typically the safe bet and depending on where you go it doesn't cost much.

I would say the surround stage tends to need lower gauge just because of increased distance (assuming the typical setup where the equipment is near the front of the room). Of course, 12 AWG is going to be more than enough for anything but the most absurd situations.

[SPH]

Originally Posted by fronn

It certainly doesn't hurt.

12 AWG is typically the safe bet and depending on where you go it doesn't cost much.

I would say the surround stage tends to need lower gauge just because of increased distance (assuming the typical setup where the equipment is near the front of the room). Of course, 12 AWG is going to be more than enough for anything but the most absurd situations.

Nothing crazy for me, probably 10-12' max and my front obviously is 6-8'. Maybe I will solder up some good nanners this weekend get my receiver ready for bi-amp on weds with the new speakers.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by SPH

I was always under the impression that bigger is better, am I wrong?

I am using 8 or 10 copper on my front sound stage and 12 on my surrounds.

Size isn't really a big factor when it comes to cable quality. Provided the cable is meaty enough for the current the cable is intended to carry, things such as the construction, type of metal used and its quality, the dielectric, etc. all come into play.

[brett_day]

gauge of wire only really come in to play when you have runs over certain distances.

really if your runs are under 40ft then 16 gauge will be sufficient as there will not be any sound degradation over such a short distance. from 40ft to 100ft i would suggest 14 gauge, anything over 100ft i would suggest 12 gauge

[Johnny Vinyl]

Like anything esle..it's the QUALITY of the cable that counts and NOT the gauge!

John

[rded]

Originally Posted by John72953

Like anything esle..it's the QUALITY of the cable that counts and NOT the gauge!

John

Ditto John. I'd take quality over guage.

[Intamin]

Originally Posted by John72953

Like anything esle..it's the QUALITY of the cable that counts and NOT the gauge!

John

And even that is up for debate but that's neither here nor there.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Intamin

And even that is up for debate but that's neither here nor there.

True enough!

[naturephoto1]

If you can afford these and they are in your price range you may want to consider these:

http://tinyurl.com/arxgcb

I use them in my high end set up in different lengths and different forms, both as a long pair as a bi-wire for my rear speakers and 2 sets each to bi-wire my front speakers and center speakers. They are exceptionally high quality and outstanding performers for the price. You could spend quite a bit of money to equal these cables. Kevin will make whatever you want as well. By the way, these are quite thick and heavy cables and that is part of the reason that they have a large shipping price. These are anything but lamp line.

Rich

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

If you can afford these and they are in your price range you may want to consider these:

http://tinyurl.com/arxgcb

I use them in my high end set up in different lengths and different forms, both as a long pair as a bi-wire for my rear speakers and 2 sets each to bi-wire my front speakers and center speakers. They are exceptionally high quality and outstanding performers for the price. You could spend quite a bit of money to equal these cables. Kevin will make whatever you want as well. By the way, these are quite thick and heavy cables and that is part of the reason that they have a large shipping price. These are anything but lamp line.

Rich

I think that's a reasonable price! $150 is NOT a lot of money to spend for decent cables.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by John72953

I think that's a reasonable price! $150 is NOT a lot of money to spend for decent cables.

John,

You are quite correct, they are quite reasonable. If you find yourself in the need these are a super performer for the price. Since Kevin makes these with top quality materials from China (the same materials and products used by the big US and Japanese hi-end makers as well as items prepared to his specs) and he does all the work in Taiwan, they are inexpensive. I would not be surprised if you would have to pay over $1,000 or more to equal these in performance from a US maker.

Rich

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

John,

No, they are quite reasonable. If you find yourself in the need these are a super performer for the price. Since Kevin makes these with top quality materials from China (the materials and products used by the big US and Japanese hi-end makers) and he does all the work in Taiwan, they are inexpensive. I would not be surprised if you would have to pay over $1,000 or more to equal these in performance from a US maker.

Rich

Rich,

I might have to look into that. Right now I'm using Ultralink MTP12's (Banana/Spade) for my fronts and they're fine. But hey, if I can be convinced that Kevin's cables are far superior...I'll make the switch!.

John

[Samsang]

Originally Posted by brett_day

gauge of wire only really come in to play when you have runs over certain distances.

really if your runs are under 40ft then 16 gauge will be sufficient as there will not be any sound degradation over such a short distance. from 40ft to 100ft i would suggest 14 gauge, anything over 100ft i would suggest 12 gauge

Important points:

1. Listen to Brett, guys. He is giving you the pure truth, and purity is what high-fidelity is all about. Buying wire that is too big doesn't help your audio system in any significant way. Nor does heavier or thicker insulation.

2. Until you have to fill an arena or stadium (or worse yet, a huge outdoor concert) with gut-rumbling sound, you just won't be using enough power to justify large guage wire (unless you're using really low efficiency speakers.) We're talking low voltage and modest amperage here. In fact, you probably listen at average power levels from a few tenth's of a watt to a couple of watts max. Your big powerful amps serve you by providing headroom for the way above average levels of cymbal crashes and other loud transients. These can require hundreds of times the average power. But that's OK even with 16 gauge wires.

3. Damping of unwanted (resonant) movements of the speaker cone is influenced by the resistance of speaker wires. High resistance relative to the speaker impedance is not good. Too small a wire and damping suffers. Fortunately, even a 40-foot long 16-gauge wire has one-fiftieth the reistance of an 8-Ohm speaker -- an insignificant amount. If you have a long wire run and/or 4-Ohm speakers you may want to upgrade to 14-ga. wire. Twelve gauge is a huge overkill for most installations.

4. And "dielectric"? Give me a break. We aren't talking coaxial cable carrying SHF microwave signals. We are dealing with Extremely Low Frequencies -- audio. Any two reasonably conductive materials (aluminum, steel) and insulation (air, fabric, etc.) will do. Don't be drawn in by marketing BS. Oxygen-free copper? Please. Any old copper wire will do. Lamp cord works just fine and can be purchased cheap. Just do a continuity check to identify (and then mark) one of the conductors to differentiate them for positive and negative connections. Signal phase DOES matter.

5. Audiophile marketing practices appeal almost exclusively to the male machismo instinct. But high-fidelity sound is NOT about having the biggest, thickest, heaviest, longest, etc. It's all about the sound, not the chest pounding. Beware the salesmen who press you to spend significantly more for the insignificant accessories such as wires, cables and connectors.

Audiophile: One who is willing to spend what it takes for great pure sound.
Audiophool: One who will waste significant resources to gain nothing.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by Samsang

Important points:

1. Listen to Brett, guys. He is giving you the pure truth, and purity is what high-fidelity is all about. Buying wire that is too big doesn't help your audio system in any significant way. Nor does heavier or thicker insulation.

2. Until you have to fill an arena or stadium (or worse yet, a huge outdoor concert) with gut-rumbling sound, you just won't be using enough power to justify large guage wire (unless you're using really low efficiency speakers.) We're talking low voltage and modest amperage here. In fact, you probably listen at average power levels from a few tenth's of watts to a couple of watts max. Your big powerful amps serve you by providing headroom for the way above average levels of cymbal crashes and other loud transients. These can require hundreds of times the average power. But that's OK even with 16 gauge wires.

3. Damping of unwanted (resonant) movements the speaker cone is influenced by the resistance of speaker wires. High resistance relative to the speaker impedance is not good. Too small a wire and damping suffers. Fortunately, even a 40-foot long 16-gauge wire has one-fiftieth the reistance of an 8-Ohm speaker -- an insignificant amount. If you have a long wire run and/or 4-Ohm speakers you may want to upgrade to 14-ga. wire. Twelve gauge is overkill for most installations.

4. And "dielectric"? Give me a break. We aren't talking coaxial cable carrying SHF microwave signals. We are dealing with Extremely Low Frequencies -- audio. any two conductors of any reasonable conductor (aluminum or better) and insulation (air, fabric, etc.) will do. Don't be drawn in by marketing BS. Oxygen-free copper? Please. Any old copper wire will do. Lamp cord works just fine and can be purchased cheap. Just do a continuity check to identify (and then mark) one of the conductors to differentiate them for positive and negative connections. Signal phase DOES matter.

5. Audiophile marketing practices appeal almost exclusively to the male machismo instinct. But high-fidelity sound is NOT about having the biggest, thickest, heaviest, longest, etc. It's all about the sound, not the chest pounding. Beware the salesmen who press you to spend significantly more for the insignificant accessories such as wires, cables and connectors.

When using high end equipment, cabling is very very important. But I guess that ignorance is bliss.

Rich

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Samsang

Important points:

1. Listen to Brett, guys. He is giving you the pure truth, and purity is what high-fidelity is all about. Buying wire that is too big doesn't help your audio system in any significant way. Nor does heavier or thicker insulation.

2. Until you have to fill an arena or stadium (or worse yet, a huge outdoor concert) with gut-rumbling sound, you just won't be using enough power to justify large guage wire (unless you're using really low efficiency speakers.) We're talking low voltage and modest amperage here. In fact, you probably listen at average power levels from a few tenth's of watts to a couple of watts max. Your big powerful amps serve you by providing headroom for the way above average levels of cymbal crashes and other loud transients. These can require hundreds of times the average power. But that's OK even with 16 gauge wires.

3. Damping of unwanted (resonant) movements the speaker cone is influenced by the resistance of speaker wires. High resistance relative to the speaker impedance is not good. Too small a wire and damping suffers. Fortunately, even a 40-foot long 16-gauge wire has one-fiftieth the reistance of an 8-Ohm speaker -- an insignificant amount. If you have a long wire run and/or 4-Ohm speakers you may want to upgrade to 14-ga. wire. Twelve gauge is a huge overkill for most installations.

4. And "dielectric"? Give me a break. We aren't talking coaxial cable carrying SHF microwave signals. We are dealing with Extremely Low Frequencies -- audio. Any two reasonably conductive materials (aluminum, steel) and insulation (air, fabric, etc.) will do. Don't be drawn in by marketing BS. Oxygen-free copper? Please. Any old copper wire will do. Lamp cord works just fine and can be purchased cheap. Just do a continuity check to identify (and then mark) one of the conductors to differentiate them for positive and negative connections. Signal phase DOES matter.

5. Audiophile marketing practices appeal almost exclusively to the male machismo instinct. But high-fidelity sound is NOT about having the biggest, thickest, heaviest, longest, etc. It's all about the sound, not the chest pounding. Beware the salesmen who press you to spend significantly more for the insignificant accessories such as wires, cables and connectors.

Come to my place and let you HEAR the difference for yourself!

John

[Intamin]

Originally Posted by John72953

Come to my place and let you HEAR the difference for yourself!

John

I beg the differ that speaker wire matters... http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/i...9789#msg539789

Frank, amp/dac/preamp engineer and founder of Audio by Van Alstine, did a double blind test and found speaker wire didn't matter as well and that essentially the results were random, meaning people couldn't really tell which sounded better. You can read the results should you choose. If you find that your wire sounds better, great! I'll keep my wire and be happy too, just pointing out the other side.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Intamin

I beg the differ that speaker wire matters... http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/i...9789#msg539789

Frank, amp/dac/preamp engineer and founder of Audio by Van Alstine, did a double blind test and found speaker wire didn't matter as well and that essentially the results were random, meaning people couldn't really tell which sounded better. You can read the results should you choose. If you find that your wire sounds better, great! I'll keep my wire and be happy too, just pointing out the other side.

And you are much entitled to the opinion you choose to accept for yourself. We're all different. I know for myself that I can hear an audible difference in different speaker wire/cabling, but not with every cable. And that is why I choose carefully whenever I've upgraded my wire/cabling. I can also tell you before someone inevitably posts it....it is NOT a placebo effect. The difference is real!

John

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by John72953

And you are much entitled to the opinion you choose to accept for yourself. We're all different. I know for myself that I can hear an audible difference in different speaker wire/cabling, but not with every cable. And that is why I choose carefully whenever I've upgraded my wire/cabling. I can also tell you before someone inevitably posts it....it is NOT a placebo effect. The difference is real!

John

Not only what has been suggested by John, but probably a better way of testing for comparison is to listen for awhile to get accustomed to the sound of specific recordings. Then change the item as in the case of cables for awhile. Once you know what sound you are looking for from each product, then if you want, you can run a blind test. That way, you have a better idea of what cues to use to recognize differences and being able to identify which is which.

Rich

[Intamin]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

Not only what has been suggested by John, but probably a better way of testing for comparison is to listen for awhile to get accustomed to the sound of specific recordings. Then change the item as in the case of cables for awhile. Once you know what sound you are looking for from each product, then if you want, you can run a blind test. That way, you have a better idea of what cues to use to recognize differences and being able to identify which is which.

Rich

I actually got a pair of new interconnects for vday and I listened to 3 songs I was very familiar with on my old cables and my fiancé listened as well. We switched out the old cables to the new ones and noticed a fuller sound right away. I agree that familiarity is very important before deciding if there is an improvement, otherwise you wouldn't know what to listen for.

Edit: I should add that I do use audioquest speaker wire, but I do have monoprice speaker wire and can't tell the difference. The only reason I keep the audioquest hooked up is that I paid a lot more for it so I figure I might as well get my money's worth.