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Old 03-01-2009, 04:35 AM   #1
yungl1nk yungl1nk is offline
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Default Can RealD type 3D be brought to home theaters on standard(non 3D) hdtvs?

Im rly into the RealD 3D. if i could, i would watch every movie in that way. i just love how it creates a realistic depth to the movie. i saw my bloody valentine recently and was blown away by how fun and engaging it wuz. ive been seeing CES reports that panasonic is bringin somethin very similar to this type of 3d to homes soon but they only displayed it on a full 3d tv as i recall. i also heard that ps3 games will soon be utilizin this technology too. but is it possible to bring this to my set(located in my sig) besides the crappy anaglyph technique?
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:55 AM   #2
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It can be done you would just need a brand new HDTV with polarising glass. And you would need special BD releases that carry both streams of the video. Which with current BD limit of 50GB would mean more compression. Hopefully by the time we do have polarised HDTVs they would have the 200GB BDs out.
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Old 03-01-2009, 05:39 AM   #3
Bobby Henderson Bobby Henderson is offline
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The color polarizing technique used by RealD is only possible with video projection based systems -either a dual front projector setup or a rear projection screen TV system using DLP chips. However, no RPTVs in existence match the 144fps triple-flash frame rate used by RealD.

Full color home theater 3D is very likely going to depend on special LCD-based "shutter glasses" that are controlled by the Blu-ray player and/or the HDTV set. That's the only way the 3D material can be distributed to the widest viewing audience.

Most HDTV owners have a LCD-based flat panel television set. Those kinds of TVs will not respond properly to any sort of polarized system. Shutter glasses are the only method that will work. The same thing goes for plasma-based televisions.

Since the vast majority of HDTV owners prefer flat panel TVs (as opposed to bulky RPTV units) the LCD shutter glasses approach seems like a foregone conclusion.

The bad thing is LCD and plasma based TVs are usually running on 60Hz or 120Hz refresh cycles. They can't adjust down to a multiple of 48 -the dual ratio of 24fps standard movie film frame rates. That will leave movie studios with a difficult decision. If they want their full color 3D movies to work with the most HDTV sets they will have to encode the movies at 30fps rather than the native 24fps rate in order for the movie to jive with 60Hz and 120Hz displays.

In the long run a lot of HDTV sets will gravitate to the 240Hz refresh rate. 240Hz is a common denominator of both 48fps and 60Hz. One can keep the native 24fps per camera eye intact and also accommodate 30fps/60Hz material in 3D as well.
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Old 03-01-2009, 06:29 PM   #4
Anthony P Anthony P is offline
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Quote:
Can RealD type 3d be brought to home theaters on standard(non 3D) hdtvs?
the answer is most likely yes (BD is working on a real 3D spec) and most likely no (you would need a new TV and BD player)

To have real 3D each eye needs a different pic. There is the ever easy anaglyph method (shift the two colours and then have them together on the image and colour filtered lenses) but that is not "real" 3D so we will forget about it.

The other two methods commonly used are

asynchronous/ shutter glasses: In this tech the two images are not at the same time, but they are so short that it does not matter and as the images flip on screen (left eye, right eye, left eye....) so do the shutters in the glasses. Assuming the refresh on the TV is fast enough and the tech can have the glasses and display in perfect synch then this might be possible today

polarized: the easiest way to understand this is to think of light as a wave, if you take a rope and make it tight enough and move your arm up and down it will make a wave like | if you move it left right it will be like _ now if the wave is like | but needs to pass through = it will be blocked. So if one image has light "polarized" like |||| and the lens of the glasses like = it is blocked, but on the other lens which is like |||| it can go through (and the opposite is true for light that is polarized the other way).

No TV today can use polarized lenses but on the other hand all LCDs use polarization to work. So it should be relatively easy for projector solution based on polarized and might (not sure) be possible for LCD flat panels.

PS you can also have hybrid solutions, for example the display is asynchronous but the glasses use polarization
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Old 03-01-2009, 06:40 PM   #5
brett_day brett_day is offline
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anything is possilbe with technology...

thought this was kind of cool too though

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/03/01...ia-cheat-code/
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:15 AM   #6
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So, wait... Im confused (ignorant) as to why we can't just watch, say, the Real D 3D version of Avatar on our current Blu-ray and HDTV?

I know two camera's or something were used to create the stereoscopic effect (hence why its "blurry" when you lift off your 3D glasses), but the end result is still one image, right? Why cant we simply put that "blurry" image on a Bluray Disc and watch it on our current HDTV with the same glasses?
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Old 01-02-2010, 07:16 AM   #7
UFAlien UFAlien is offline
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Because then the glasses, much like the goggles, would do nothing.

The reason it works in the theater is because each image - the one for the left eye and the one for the right eye - are polarized differently. The lenses are polarized the same way, so that each eye only sees one image. Kinda like the red/blue kind, just much clearer as there's no color distortion.

The problem is that television sets cannot produce these differently polarized images. It'd be like trying to watch a red/blue 3-D movie on a black and white TV.
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Old 01-02-2010, 11:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFAlien View Post
Because then the glasses, much like the goggles, would do nothing.

The reason it works in the theater is because each image - the one for the left eye and the one for the right eye - are polarized differently. The lenses are polarized the same way, so that each eye only sees one image. Kinda like the red/blue kind, just much clearer as there's no color distortion.

The problem is that television sets cannot produce these differently polarized images. It'd be like trying to watch a red/blue 3-D movie on a black and white TV.
Ahhhh OK. I didnt know that our current TV's couldnt produce the polarized images. Thank you. The "It'd be like trying to watch a red/blue 3-D movie on a black and white TV" made it make the most sense.

Theater question:
For REAL 3D in the theaters, was the screen different? I recall hearing a recorded announcement that "the screen equiped in this theater is designed for Real D 3D, the latest breakthrough in which scientists use" (something along those lines). So for theater-sake, why does the "white screen" need to be different? Isnt the image just front projected from a projector?
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Old 01-02-2010, 02:41 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Frozenpinky View Post
Ahhhh OK. I didnt know that our current TV's couldnt produce the polarized images. Thank you. The "It'd be like trying to watch a red/blue 3-D movie on a black and white TV" made it make the most sense.

Theater question:
For REAL 3D in the theaters, was the screen different? I recall hearing a recorded announcement that "the screen equiped in this theater is designed for Real D 3D, the latest breakthrough in which scientists use" (something along those lines). So for theater-sake, why does the "white screen" need to be different? Isnt the image just front projected from a projector?
They need a special screen for two reasons.

Normal surfaces doesn't preserve the polarizing. So you need a screen that does.
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Old 01-02-2010, 02:48 PM   #10
Anthony P Anthony P is offline
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there are "two" projectors which have different polarization. The screen tends to be different as well (known as a silver screen) to help keep the polarization.

if you go with a friend, (need two sets of glasses) find a well lit area, put them on normaly, an then the second pair on as well, it will look normal (maybe a bit darker). Now take off the second pair and hold them in reverse (handles away from your face as if they where in the face of someone staring at you). What happens? it gets real dark with a slight purplish tint.

what happens is that light has a form of dimension, the easiest way to think of it is as a line lie | coming twords you, there is no width on that line but just height, normal light goes willy-nilly some rays will be like | others like / or \ or — . realD and LCDs use that part of the nature of light to work. The rays will all be polarized in the same direction , let's say | now if the polarizing lens is like |||| it passes through without problem, but if the lens is polarized like = it is blocked. The same happens if the light is — and the polarized lens is = it passes but ||| it is blocked. On LCD the liquid crystals can change the polarity of light so | becomes — and the polarizer in the LCD blocks one or the other, in realD one projection is | and the other — and on your glasses one is polarized ||| and the other =, so without the glasses you see both images from both eyes but with them one sees the | image and the other sees the — . When you use the left and right eye together (In the experiment above) it becomes like # so almost everything is blocked light that is | or — or / or \, except for a bit on the purple side which has a much smaller wavelength and something like / or \ can pass through


as for why does the screen need to be different, I don't know the physics of how it works, but they are much better at keeping the polarity right.
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Old 01-02-2010, 03:31 PM   #11
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Thank you guys. Appreciated =)
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Old 01-04-2010, 03:09 PM   #12
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wait, wait... now I'm confused. What about this? :

Fans of 3D movies can rest easy. You probably won’t need to upgrade your Blu-ray player, and you almost certainly won’t need to pick up new cables.

Any Blu-ray player/device that has a method for updating the firmware can be kicked up to support the new format. Cable set-top boxes and satellite receivers included.

Like most things though, the 3D update for already existing HDMI 1.3 products comes with a catch, and it’s a catch in the form of reduced video quality. While HDMI 1.4 cables and devices will be capable of shooting out 3D pictures in full 1080p, HDMI 1.3 just can’t handle it.

The problem is that for a 3D picture, two images have to be shown nearly simultaneously. Since HDMI 1.3 can’t handle two 1080p pictures at that speed, you’ll get two 1080i pictures. It’s not a huge downgrade when all is said and done. The real clincher comes with TV signals.

Since cable boxes normally show a 1080i image, they’ll be stepped down to 540i to handle 3D. With HDMI 1.3 cable boxes, you’ll have the choice between HD and 3D, but not both.


Source: http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...After_All/4002
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:20 PM   #13
Reboscale Reboscale is offline
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Great thread, I learned more about RealD 3D than I've ever known. I haven't had the opportunity to see a film in RealD, but I am very interested to check it out now. I know Avatar is available in this format. I really enjoyed the movie, is it worth re-experiencing in 3D?
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:30 PM   #14
Frozenpinky Frozenpinky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reboscale View Post
Great thread, I learned more about RealD 3D than I've ever known. I haven't had the opportunity to see a film in RealD, but I am very interested to check it out now. I know Avatar is available in this format. I really enjoyed the movie, is it worth re-experiencing in 3D?
Yes. So much so that I dont even know how I'm going to watch the 2D Blu-ray when it comes out in May
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Old 01-04-2010, 06:02 PM   #15
Reboscale Reboscale is offline
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Thanks, will check it out this weekend!
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:15 PM   #16
Jimmy Smith Jimmy Smith is offline
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Originally Posted by Frozenpinky View Post
wait, wait... now I'm confused. What about this? :

Fans of 3D movies can rest easy. You probably wonít need to upgrade your Blu-ray player, and you almost certainly wonít need to pick up new cables.

Any Blu-ray player/device that has a method for updating the firmware can be kicked up to support the new format. Cable set-top boxes and satellite receivers included.

Like most things though, the 3D update for already existing HDMI 1.3 products comes with a catch, and itís a catch in the form of reduced video quality. While HDMI 1.4 cables and devices will be capable of shooting out 3D pictures in full 1080p, HDMI 1.3 just canít handle it.

The problem is that for a 3D picture, two images have to be shown nearly simultaneously. Since HDMI 1.3 canít handle two 1080p pictures at that speed, youíll get two 1080i pictures. Itís not a huge downgrade when all is said and done. The real clincher comes with TV signals.

Since cable boxes normally show a 1080i image, theyíll be stepped down to 540i to handle 3D. With HDMI 1.3 cable boxes, youíll have the choice between HD and 3D, but not both.


Source: http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...After_All/4002
To call what HDTV broadcasts 540i isn't exactly accurate. HD broadcasts since there 1080i are already naturally interlaced which halfs the vertical resolution and for 3D they will have to half the horizontal resolution. So 3D HD broadcasts will at first have a resolution of 960 x 540. While I don't expect 3D Full HD broadcasts for a long time I think having resolution at least equal to current Checkerboard 3D displays (960 x 1080) could at least be supported by current broadcasts bandwidth. We shall see.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:06 PM   #17
Dynamo of Eternia Dynamo of Eternia is offline
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Trying to understand what is needed to use this 3D technology at home is making me constipated.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:10 PM   #18
john_1958 john_1958 is offline
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few links
http://news.google.ca/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&q=3d%20hdtv

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...9365&Itemid=47

well this article says yes

Last edited by john_1958; 01-04-2010 at 08:19 PM. Reason: bpbs
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:22 PM   #19
Uniquely Uniquely is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reboscale View Post
Great thread, I learned more about RealD 3D than I've ever known. I haven't had the opportunity to see a film in RealD, but I am very interested to check it out now. I know Avatar is available in this format. I really enjoyed the movie, is it worth re-experiencing in 3D?
I just saw it yesterday... and I honestly did not feel that 3D added much to the experience at all. There were a few moments that made you go wow.... but there were just as many moments where an object would suddenly pop in from out of frame and actually momentarily distract you from the story line. I think I would have enjoyed the movie just as much in 2D.

Maybe this feeling was caused by over hype let down? I know that I had friends going on and on about how Hangover was SOOOO funny... but when I finally saw it, it really didn't live up to the high expectations. The same may have happened with everyone saying how Avatar was such a huge leap in 3D tech and how Avatar is going to change how everyone feels about 3D.

My judgement... it was nice... but not this huge leap in 3D tech that everyone has been going on about.
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Old 01-16-2010, 06:40 PM   #20
john_1958 john_1958 is offline
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Default real-d

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10423735-1.html

now if they would make the tv set with the screen just like the glasses and make the set glasses free

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Hardware/11030.html

3d blu-ray player Winner of the CES 2010 Award for Innovation, the Samsung BD-C6900 Blu-ray disc player supports the new 3D Blu-ray standard which was finalised

Last edited by john_1958; 01-16-2010 at 06:50 PM.
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