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Old 04-08-2009, 07:01 PM   #1
Damage Inc. Damage Inc. is offline
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Question Projection Spots (Bright/Dust) - How to get rid of them?

Hi,

I don't know if I already asked this here,
but I've posted the same issue at other specialized forums and got no replies at all.
So here it goes:


I have this DLP-projector and the projection has these dim-bright spots in them.
Kind of like a bunch of small and weak flashlights are aimed towards the screen.
And they are always present and fixed on their spots,
but they only show best in black/dark areas and when the colors are a bit dark.
So for example in the black bars they are visible, but especially in darker films/scenes this is not ideal.
I'm not sure since when they were there, I think since I got it though.

Now, how do I get rid of these cursed spots?
Because they annoy the heck out of me and make the image look cluttered.

I've only opened the lamp-cavity because I do not know how projectors stick together.
And of course I don't want to mess up anything, even IF I'm quite handy technically.
However, if I can not find an answer, I will try and open this thing up and clean it myself.
But I've made the thing as clean as possible, the lamps glass parts are just stellar.
As far as I can see the front-lens is also as clean as possible, spotless and shiny anyway.

Only, if you know where the lamp "connects" to a small piece of glass
in a metal frame with a circular cutout...
(Which the lamp shines through to the next compartment.)
That piece of glass seems to have some dust-particles on it.
But it seems to be on the inside when I checked with a magnifying-glass.
The frame is secured with a tiny screw, which I first of all couldn't find a fitting screwdriver for.
But with any firm grip I could get I couldn't get the thing turned.
So is it perhaps not meant to come loose ever?


And actually, the fan is full of dust on the surfaces.
But I can't reach it to clean all the hardened dust off, it also doesn't come off when in use so...

Besides that, I also recently read that some/most(?) DLP-projectors have like this sealed projection-path.
Which wouldn't let any dust in...
So, what's up with that, do I just happen to have one without a sealed path?
Apparently it was expensive enough, so I wouldn't think so, but who knows...

Oh, if you need to know, it is the Toshiba... TDP-T9.


So, does anyone know how to get rid of these spots?
Any help would be appreciated, I'm put up with this problem for a while now.

I have also contacted some addresses from the Toshiba-site.
But most just don't reply and some are just for whole different purposes.
One finally replied and I believe they said it's hard to determine.
But they just suggested I should send it in to let them check it and perhaps fix it.
Most people would probably say that, but I can simply not afford that.
As it would turn out to cost me about... what was it, say 300+ Euros.

I'm not even "buying that", because it can't be thát hard.
They probably just charge big bucks for the time spent on it, as usual.
Unless they use some kind of specialized (vacuum) lab.
Even then, some maintenance on it is not even remotely customer-friendly...
"Many great films fail and many shitty movies make a lot of money." - John Landis

BD Wishlist: - Prince of Egypt - Hunchback of Notre Dame - Beverly Hills Cop - Bowfinger - Multiplicity - One Hour Photo - Series: - Over There - Flashpoint - Monk - Friends - My Name Is Earl - Music: - Maiden Rock In Rio - MetallicA S&M - Godsmack Changes - Ramms+ein Berlin - SlipKnoT Disasterpieces - Ozzy At Budokan - Satriani SF

Last edited by Damage Inc.; 04-08-2009 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:19 AM   #2
Suntory_Times Suntory_Times is offline
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It does sound like some dust has got in it. Have you checked to make sure the lens is clean. If not I'd take it to a local hi-fi store and see what they have to say about it there.
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:27 AM   #3
Damage Inc. Damage Inc. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntory_Times View Post
It does sound like some dust has got in it. Have you checked to make sure the lens is clean. If not I'd take it to a local hi-fi store and see what they have to say about it there.
You mean the front-lens and on the outside?
Yes, that is as clean as I can get it, I also don't see much on it when looking really closely.
I even tried blowing through some gaps and getting out some more dust.
Desperately even getting anything to move to see if the spots would change size or location.
But nothing happens...
Do you think all those spots could have burned in, even though not used in very hot conditions?

And I'd have to find some store that would know anything about these devices.
Most don't have much different products and people working there don't always know much.
You know, going by their standard salesman-speeches and such things.
"Many great films fail and many shitty movies make a lot of money." - John Landis

BD Wishlist: - Prince of Egypt - Hunchback of Notre Dame - Beverly Hills Cop - Bowfinger - Multiplicity - One Hour Photo - Series: - Over There - Flashpoint - Monk - Friends - My Name Is Earl - Music: - Maiden Rock In Rio - MetallicA S&M - Godsmack Changes - Ramms+ein Berlin - SlipKnoT Disasterpieces - Ozzy At Budokan - Satriani SF
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:42 AM   #4
Suntory_Times Suntory_Times is offline
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I'd take it to a store, it's very hard to be able to tell what the problem is when all you have to go in is a description. It could be a number of things, each as likely as the other. Do you have any pics of it in action and the problmes resulting?
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:30 AM   #5
Damage Inc. Damage Inc. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntory_Times View Post
I'd take it to a store, it's very hard to be able to tell what the problem is when all you have to go in is a description. It could be a number of things, each as likely as the other. Do you have any pics of it in action and the problmes resulting?
Yes, but I'm afraid I might not find a useful store around here,
unless it's in some bigger farther city.
I'll try and find something, but they're all quite standard TV/HiFi-stores around here.
That might include products like projectors in some places, but not around here.
With some luck I might run into some person that knows more than usual.

I could try and take picture of a black or dark screen.
Because it's hard to notice the spots from a single frame, at least during a movie.
You really notice it in changes from light to dark for example.
At some points the brightness of the spots would exceed the brightness of the film.
Then your eyes will dilate because the majority of the screen and room becomes darker
and the spots will just stand out.
It's as if you're looking through some smudged glasses or window or something.
As the spots are consistent in brightness and location whenever the projector is on.

Then, even through a little brighter and colored images the spots show through.
So it's terrible in movies such as any of the "Batman"-ones, just to name an obvious "dark" example.
"Many great films fail and many shitty movies make a lot of money." - John Landis

BD Wishlist: - Prince of Egypt - Hunchback of Notre Dame - Beverly Hills Cop - Bowfinger - Multiplicity - One Hour Photo - Series: - Over There - Flashpoint - Monk - Friends - My Name Is Earl - Music: - Maiden Rock In Rio - MetallicA S&M - Godsmack Changes - Ramms+ein Berlin - SlipKnoT Disasterpieces - Ozzy At Budokan - Satriani SF

Last edited by Damage Inc.; 04-10-2009 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damage Inc. View Post
I even tried blowing through some gaps and getting out some more dust.
Desperately even getting anything to move to see if the spots would change size or location.
But nothing happens...
Do you think all those spots could have burned in, even though not used in very hot conditions?.

STOP!!!! blowing on the lens is likely what caused these "Dust Blobs" to begin with (while searching, looking for dust blobs, and you'll probably get a lot of good info on the web)

I have one noticeable dust-blob on my screen..... only noticeable during dark scenes as well..... and I'm just "dealing with it" right now..... but basically blowing on the lens is the LAST thing you should do....

1) It's not "burnt in" it's just a dust particle on the inside of the lens that is blocking the light path.

2) You probably want to take care of it if there are a lot of them, and it's annoying.

3) depending on the composition, the dust may reflect light BACK, causing your bulb to wear faster (not sure about this point, but I know finger-prints on a High-Pressure Sodium Grow-Light will shorten their life expectancy...... don't ask me how I know that )


Like I said... I have a dust blob, but it's not too noticeable, and it's located top-left of the screen.... so it's hard to locate even during darker scenes..... I just asked my wife is she knew what I was talking about, and she thinks I'm crazy! I can't even get a good picture of it..... it's to faint.... besides, I only REALLY notice it during the opening menu etc. if the background color is black.


I would have it checked out if it's under warranty though.... because it definitely should be covered.


EDIT:

I can't notice my "blob" during any scenes other than complete blackness.... or close to it.... so it sounds like yours is much worse unfortunately
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Last edited by Beta Man; 04-10-2009 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:24 AM   #7
Damage Inc. Damage Inc. is offline
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Well, I didn't blow on anything before I noticed any spots, or else I wouldn't do that would I...
I can barely find anything on cleaning projectors and such issues.
Most is just like "use a microfiber cloth to clean the lens", that's about it...
In fact, finding nothing on the internet brought me back to desperately bugging people on a forum.

And I hope you're right about dust not burning in and just being there "stuck" temporarily.
Or that thing would just be totally ruined.

There are indeed a lot of spots.
The smaller ones and especially some on the outsides don't bother me as much.
But there is at least one fairly big spot just left-of-center, so right in the face of the image.
That thing has got to go, it ruins the movies...

Hm, I'm not sure about light reflecting back in (if that's what you mean).
As there is still light and color in the spots, they're just faint like you described.
Also only really noticeable when on their locations the projection is dimmer/darker.
The bulb or it's glass casing has never been touched, just grabbed by the metal side-parts when putting in.

And I'm not sure about warranty, where would I need to go with it then?
I've looked on the Toshiba-site, but as said, there isn't much to contact.
"Many great films fail and many shitty movies make a lot of money." - John Landis

BD Wishlist: - Prince of Egypt - Hunchback of Notre Dame - Beverly Hills Cop - Bowfinger - Multiplicity - One Hour Photo - Series: - Over There - Flashpoint - Monk - Friends - My Name Is Earl - Music: - Maiden Rock In Rio - MetallicA S&M - Godsmack Changes - Ramms+ein Berlin - SlipKnoT Disasterpieces - Ozzy At Budokan - Satriani SF

Last edited by Damage Inc.; 04-11-2009 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:23 AM   #8
j3yq j3yq is offline
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Yup, just Dust blobs. It happens to alot of DLP pj,s becasue they cant have a seal light path. My optoma Hd70 hd them.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:55 PM   #9
Damage Inc. Damage Inc. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3yq View Post
Yup, just Dust blobs. It happens to alot of DLP pj,s becasue they cant have a seal light path. My optoma Hd70 hd them.
They can't have a sealed light-path?
Why do I keep reading that one of the advantages of DLP-projectors is that they are sealed?
However, I read that only most have that, so I thought mine would be just a type without.

But if you say so... thennn... I really do not know anymore.
At least it's clear that mine doesn't have one, or else I wouldn't have image-problems this easily. :P
Then again, I got it used and this device is from 2006, so who knows how (much) it's been used.
I did install the spare lamp since I got it though, which was still packed.
"Many great films fail and many shitty movies make a lot of money." - John Landis

BD Wishlist: - Prince of Egypt - Hunchback of Notre Dame - Beverly Hills Cop - Bowfinger - Multiplicity - One Hour Photo - Series: - Over There - Flashpoint - Monk - Friends - My Name Is Earl - Music: - Maiden Rock In Rio - MetallicA S&M - Godsmack Changes - Ramms+ein Berlin - SlipKnoT Disasterpieces - Ozzy At Budokan - Satriani SF

Last edited by Damage Inc.; 04-11-2009 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:01 PM   #10
Brain Sturgeon Brain Sturgeon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3yq View Post
Yup, just Dust blobs. It happens to alot of DLP pj,s becasue they cant have a seal light path. My optoma Hd70 hd them.
No, this is not true. AFAIK, most, if not all, DLP PJ's have sealed light paths, as do most, if not all, LCOS PJ's. LCD PJ's do not have sealed light paths, and most of the issues with dust blobs occur with these projectors.

From this page http://www.projectorreviews.com/advi...LP_vs_LCoS.php:

Quote:
DLP projectors claim a sealed light path - that is, dust cannot get into the system to end up on the DLP chip, or other surfaces in the light path. This is also true for most LCoS projectors. 3LCD, however is not sealed
BTW Beta, your HC1500 would appear to have a sealed light path, so it would be unlikely that what you are seeing is a dust blob.

From this page http://www.projectorcentral.com/news_story_1027.htm:

Quote:
Mitsubishi's HC1500 is affordable from the point of purchase and offers an exceptional low cost of ownership with its estimated 3000-hour lamp life in low mode. It's also designed with an advanced filter-free construction that makes the projector resistant to dust, dirt and other micro particles within the its light path.
and this page http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hd1000u.htm:

Quote:
Finally, the Mitsubishi HD1000U, like all Mitsubishi projectors, has a sealed light engine. There are no air filters that need to be changed or cleaned out.
(The HC1500 is an updated HD1000u)

To the OP: I'm not sure if your Toshiba has a sealed light path, but I have really never heard of any DLP projectors having an issue with dust blobs. Might want to run your issue by Toshiba customer support.
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:53 PM   #11
Damage Inc. Damage Inc. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain Sturgeon View Post
To the OP: I'm not sure if your Toshiba has a sealed light path, but I have really never heard of any DLP projectors having an issue with dust blobs. Might want to run your issue by Toshiba customer support.
I don't know if you found the model-number or not, but it's the TDP-T9.
Myself I didn't find much about it either, some regular reviews at most.

And, as said, I tried to find a contact to Toshiba more directly.
But all their website shows are like... Toshiba-dealers and sources like that.
Which I contacted a bunch of, but only one or two replied.
Of which one suggested me to send it in for repair and maintenance at a fee of about 250 Euros...

If, however, anyone here knows a better contact (to Toshiba), I will use that.
"Many great films fail and many shitty movies make a lot of money." - John Landis

BD Wishlist: - Prince of Egypt - Hunchback of Notre Dame - Beverly Hills Cop - Bowfinger - Multiplicity - One Hour Photo - Series: - Over There - Flashpoint - Monk - Friends - My Name Is Earl - Music: - Maiden Rock In Rio - MetallicA S&M - Godsmack Changes - Ramms+ein Berlin - SlipKnoT Disasterpieces - Ozzy At Budokan - Satriani SF
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:00 AM   #12
Damage Inc. Damage Inc. is offline
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Heyyy, I have a little update here:


OK, so now I recently contacted a company specialized in projectors.
And also they apparently never had the complaint, especially with also this model having a closed light-path.
So this is really weird and typical that I have such a problem again.
Anyway, they claim to be very positive they could fix it with a standard thorough cleaning.
But, that would cost me about 170 or more Euros, which I don't really feel like caughing up at the time.

Now, I had a deep look into the lens, when the lamp was off of course. XD
And I think when you look all the way down the front lenses,
you can see this angled surface obviously to corner the light.
That's what it looks like anyway...
But, the main thing is that I see some random white spots, which seem like and probably are dust.
Now, unless someone says it's supposed to look like that, I'd like to attempt to clean it.
However, I will first need to know how to either open the housing or get the lens itself out of there.
I've tried to pry open the housing (there aren't many screws) without much result
and the lens will only come out as far as you can turn to focus it.

I'd be so glad if those spots would finally be removed.
Cause this is what it looks like, exaggerated that is...


Now, like I said, exaggerated, because I used a low shutter-speed.
Normally the background is as good as "black" and the 'Toshiba'-logo really red and sharp.
So the brightest spots you see here are usually only noticeable, such as the big ones on the left-side.
Especially that big "double" one just next to the logo, if only that one would be gone,
it would already make a world of difference.
But this just shows how many spots there in fact are, even if you don't really see them.
"Many great films fail and many shitty movies make a lot of money." - John Landis

BD Wishlist: - Prince of Egypt - Hunchback of Notre Dame - Beverly Hills Cop - Bowfinger - Multiplicity - One Hour Photo - Series: - Over There - Flashpoint - Monk - Friends - My Name Is Earl - Music: - Maiden Rock In Rio - MetallicA S&M - Godsmack Changes - Ramms+ein Berlin - SlipKnoT Disasterpieces - Ozzy At Budokan - Satriani SF

Last edited by Damage Inc.; 05-30-2009 at 05:13 AM.
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Old 08-10-2009, 04:19 PM   #13
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Thank god I came across this thread, I thought there was something seriuosly wrong when I saw a couple show up. Luckily the 2 faint ones I noticed are outside of the viewable area.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain...

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Old 08-11-2009, 02:54 PM   #14
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If it is dust, most likely you can bring those dust particles to focus by defocusing the lens. If you shift the focus from edge to edge, at some stage dust will get in focus on the screen. Then you can confirm that it is dust.

Some people use compress air to clean dust by blowing it through the air circulation path. I haven't done this, so I cannot really recommend it.
Wish that blu-ray is most faithful to the theater release...
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syncguy View Post

Some people use compress air to clean dust by blowing it through the air circulation path. I haven't done this, so I cannot really recommend it.
Yea, not really sure whether I feel comfortable blowing air into any part of it for fear of doing permanent damage.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain...

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Old 08-11-2009, 04:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckardp View Post
Yea, not really sure whether I feel comfortable blowing air into any part of it for fear of doing permanent damage.
Yes, this is a possibility but unlikely - anyway not sure. Like to find out whether he could see the dust particles by defocusing the projector.
Wish that blu-ray is most faithful to the theater release...
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Old 08-29-2009, 12:30 AM   #17
Damage Inc. Damage Inc. is offline
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WELL... I FINALLY got around to cracking this thing open.
I used this Service Manual, I'm not sure if it was linked here or somewhere else.
But whoever got me that, thanks again.
It really helped, it has a whole section about disassembling the thing in its entirety.
Which was obviously not needed, so I had to skip steps like disassembling the controls and such things.
All I needed to know was how to open the housing and the general "imaging-area".

So I opened it up, before I got as far as taking out some screws,
but apparently I (also) just had to press in the sides and kind of unhook the halves.
I took off some covers and took off the front lens and took out the lenses in the back.
I just cleaned every glass surface, that I could reach anyway,
with one of those microfiber-wipes.
There were definitely many spots of dust all over them.
Even inside where I had to screw the whole things open.
So, even though many sources say this thing is sealed, it's definitely not.
Unless dust is just so fine, it got through some type of edges, but that's not sealed enough then...
I'm pretty sure that the "lens" in the back,
which is tiny but seemed to have a little window or screen of 4:3-format.
I just typically recognized the shape of it, so I'm sure that's where the image comes from.
Which got cleaned but I was very afraid I might have scratched it or something.
Probably got some fiber-hairs on it or something.

Then I just assembled the whole thing, it all went fairly easy.
You just have to remember where everything was and be a bit handy with screws and stuff.
I had a feeling that once I fired it up, it would simply show the blotches again.
But I had a good look and... it's a miracle, it's now 99% CLEAN!
Well, maybe even more, because all I could spot was a tiny little bright spot
you don't even notice if something's playing.
It's funny, now the image looks "like new". :P It also seems simply better or clearer in a way.

Anyway, that is fixed, so if you have spots, disassemble the thing and clean the lenses. lol...
However, don't forget to re-connect the IR-sensor correctly, unlike I did. -_-
Well, I did, but it's this weird ribbon and plug-less connector, which somehow doesn't make contact now.
So I can't use the remote, but whatever, I barely use it unless I have to switch from 16:9 to 4:3 for some DVDs.

Speaking of which, I'll be watching 'Moonwalker' tomorrow,
or today actually, so Happy Birthday Michael. or I don't know which to be...



There we go, a little tribute...


So, just wanted to let you know what I did about it now.

Greetings,
"Many great films fail and many shitty movies make a lot of money." - John Landis

BD Wishlist: - Prince of Egypt - Hunchback of Notre Dame - Beverly Hills Cop - Bowfinger - Multiplicity - One Hour Photo - Series: - Over There - Flashpoint - Monk - Friends - My Name Is Earl - Music: - Maiden Rock In Rio - MetallicA S&M - Godsmack Changes - Ramms+ein Berlin - SlipKnoT Disasterpieces - Ozzy At Budokan - Satriani SF

Last edited by Damage Inc.; 09-09-2009 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 08-29-2009, 02:54 AM   #18
Icecoldblue Icecoldblue is offline
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GAH! Just because of this thread I had to go check if I had any spots on my PJ... Now I can't stop looking at all 3 of them! Guess you know what I'll be cleaning tomorrow.

To the OP:
I'm glad it was only dust spots, and a fairly easy solution to fix it.
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Old 08-30-2009, 09:06 PM   #19
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lol
Just be sure, if you open it, that you know where to put everything. XD

Yeah, I was really afraid it might have been some type of damage or burn-in.
But I guess the image doesn't damage thát easily.

I finished watching 'Moonwalker' just about an hour or two ago.
And it just looks beautiful now, nothing that annoyed and distracted me.
"Many great films fail and many shitty movies make a lot of money." - John Landis

BD Wishlist: - Prince of Egypt - Hunchback of Notre Dame - Beverly Hills Cop - Bowfinger - Multiplicity - One Hour Photo - Series: - Over There - Flashpoint - Monk - Friends - My Name Is Earl - Music: - Maiden Rock In Rio - MetallicA S&M - Godsmack Changes - Ramms+ein Berlin - SlipKnoT Disasterpieces - Ozzy At Budokan - Satriani SF
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Old 09-05-2009, 04:11 AM   #20
syncguy syncguy is offline
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Thanks for giving the details Damage Inc. It is interesting.

If anyone looking for a projector, it is worthwhile to look for one with sealed light path to avoid dust issues.
Wish that blu-ray is most faithful to the theater release...
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