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Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus
If dual layer DV on disc works the way I think it works, then it's very much like the core + extension codec approach for Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio.
That way the data is backwards and forwards compatible depending on the decoding chip in various devices.
At NAB the Dolby rep mentioned their UHD Blu-ray encoding was 12 bit, but didn't mention the chroma sampling.
I'll take true 12 bit, 4:2:2, if that's the case. Regular 10 bit, 4:2:0 HDR10 is down and out. They should use DV on everything, even if classic films with more limited DR only get a mild HDR grade. 12 bit, 4:2:2 will be helpful in soooo many other ways, especially when Rec. 2020 is used rather than P3.
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4:2:2 Dolby Vision on uhd bd disk is seriously a scoop. I'm really glad, I've been a fan of Dolby Vision since I first heard about it from CES a few years ago. It was some far off in the future thing, and now the real deal Dolby Vision 4k UHD Blu-rays are coming a month from today.
I told people in forums that Dolby Vision on disk was going to give people a new reason to buy 2k upscale releases like a lot of the current era of movies and most of the cgi kid films. I explained that very best results would be released when added to a true native 4K UHD transfer. I told them that Dolby Visions adoption would continue to snowball, about how it was actually Dolby who invented HDR but they allowed a lot of the technology to be opensource. Many agreed, but still many others said that some other HDR formats would be the demise of Dolby Vision. They said it couldn't catch on.
I told them that Samsung and 20th Century Fox's new opensource format is the basic 'vanilla version' of HDR with dynamic metadata, and would become the new base layer requirement on an updated BDA UHD Blu-ray spec, while remaining backwards compatible with HDR10. I told them that HDR10 was getting a dynamic metadata upgrade, and there was plenty of room for HDR10+ to thrive as a base layer format, while some disks would get Dolby Vision, but not all, maybe not even a third.
Dolby Vision costs money to use, and it's a premium HDR format so we can't say what % of releases will include it, but some other disks that don't get Dolby Vision will get some secretive forthcoming 'Technicolor HDR' format (either ST 2094-20 or ST 2094-30, or a combination of both). Technicolor is also charging royalty fees for their premium HDR formats. I anticipate the premium Technicolor HDR formats to hopefully be formally announced at CES 2018, along with a bunch of HDMI 2.1 products.
Do you guys think Technicolor HDR on UHD Blu-ray will use 4:2:2? It's a 10-bit color depth HDR format, but I know the two SDK's under their umbrella are going to produce superior PQ to HDR10+, but what exactly will make Technicolor HDR fall between Dolby Vision and HDR10+ is still kind of secret, nobody knows exactly what the format will do. Just that it won't be quite as good as Dolby Vision HDR, but it'll be better than HDR10+. So I wonder. If I think "Technicolor HDR" as a format on a UHD disk, I expect a superior HDR grading, for better color palate vs. standard HDR10+. I expect 4:2:2, and I expect other secrets. I know that at least one of Technicolor's HDR formats is "reference based", meaning I believe it can map the luminescence metadata by object-based, shaped-based metadata, and I believe the premium HDR formats are frame based, where Samsung's format is simply scene based HDR mapping.
They can't use Dolby Vision only, or even on every disk as the second layer. That's because of two things. 1. It costs fees to add it to disks HDR10+ is the only fully opensource backwards compatible HDR10 successor format, so only it can qualify as a new required base layer format. It was co-developed by 20th Century Fox so HDR10+ is going to be embraced by Fox Studios early on, since it's their creation. 2. Technicolor already currently does a lot of the HDR grading for outsourced UHD Blu-Ray and for theatrical releases. Their formats were designed from the beginning only to work over HDMI 2.1, using the new enhanced dynamic metadata support. They aren't going to have a problem getting manufacturers and studios to support them. Studios love Technicolor.
Also, Philips designed ST 2094-20 which is part of the Technicolor umbrella since they merged HDR technologies, and they are part of the UHD Blu-ray HDMI 2.1 spec already, so obviously Philips is going to support their own formats in tv sets and blu-ray players. LG will support it. Sony will probably support it early on too. Oppo will with their next model of Blu-ray player. There can only be two HDR formats per UHD disk max. The second layer of HDR can use Technicolor HDR, Dolby Vision, or nothing at all. The only HDR format that the BDA could require would have to be a disk that could is HDR10 or HDR10+. Dolby Vision HDR and Technicolor HDR both actually take advantage of the HDR10 on the disk, and ride off it right?
Project Scorpio could potentially be the first UHD Blu-ray player to have support for every forthcoming dynamic metadata HDR format, as it's HDMI 2.1 based and could get support for any format via software, firmware updates. Samsung definitely won't embrace premium HDR formats any time soon though. The whole reason they invented HDR10+ was to avoid paying any royalty fees for HDR.
In January when I was watching the official CNET live feed of CES 2017 I just was making comments in the chat saying. "Sony should announce Dolby Vision but they won't because they're jerks" "Everyone should support Dolby Vision, it's the best thing ever, duh!" "I hope more companies announce support for Dolby Vision soon, those fools!" . At first people were basically saying Sony, Panasonic, and Samsung won't support Dolby Vision because "it's dumb", "It will fail, you suck" stuff like that, but then when Sony did actually announce support for Dolby Vision, everyone flooded the chat with celebratory happy comments for me.
The news reports had just come out a few days before saying Sony definitely wasn't going to announce support for Dolby Vision. Glad that was wrong. Now if project Scorpio, Xbox Two, and PS5 are supporting Dolby Vision for movies and games, I think it's safe to say that Dolby Vision is going to explode alongside UHD Blu-ray sales, when it can be included.