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Old 11-18-2022, 02:21 PM   #730
Stacey Spears Stacey Spears is offline
BD Test Disc Author
Mar 2008

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
No, not at all. In the CV-19 era just really glad you guys are still with us.

For DV content, have you folks tried out the Dolby VS10 engine like the one used by Dune, Zappiti and Zidoo? If so, thoughts?

Don't want to start a Lumagen vs madVR contest but would like a short essay on your pick of the Envy over the Radiance Pro.
The only thing close to VS10 that I have experienced is what the Sony UHD BD player does when converting HDR10 to Dolby Vision. I am not sure if that is real VS10 or something else. It does not perform well, but I have confirmed it suffers from the same issues that real DV, on BD, suffers from. e.g. I thought the horses in snow scene would look better when playing HDR10 back as DV through the Sony than the display tone mapping HDR10, but it was pretty ugly looking due to perceived clipping.

Some DV bugs you will encounter when using the new disc:

1. Dolby Vision on BD is using the 709 chroma upsampling algorithm instead of 2020. This results in a half a pixel vertical shift between luma and chroma.
2. Dolby seems to filter all chroma detail above 1080p. If you look at the chroma zone plate, the left and right half's are not dim, they are virtually black and white as the chroma detail is gone, but luma seems untouched.
3. The DVLL bug where they ignore the chroma weight trim pass control. This results in noise, banding and other issues that can be found on the current montage if you compare HDR10/DV to DVLL. We have a hidden pattern on the new disc that makes this very obvious. Vincent used it in one of his videos a year ago. It is a big red X. We hid it for a couple reasons. 1. Not to piss Dolby off out right. 2. It will cause confusion and panic as there are cases where it does not work, such as using Cinema Home mode on LG, which converts DV 2.9 to 4.0 and 4.0 does not behave the same as they put a safe guard in to not suck out all the chroma if you push the control to far. Basically we use the control to our advantage to suck all the color out. So when it works, we suck all the color out and hide the x. When the control is ignored, you see the x. There is still a faint outline of the x due to chroma subsampling.

When you play DV on the new disc, it is using the HDR10 10K encoded version of the file and what you see is simply the DV metadata being applied. HDR10+ uses the same encode, but is a copy of the file with 10+ metadata inserted. Because players will often play HDR10+ over DV if one file has both metadata, we have two copies of the file for three formats. I mention this so that you don't think something is wrong with the DV version of the file. If you disable DV at the player level and play the DV file, you see HDR10 10K natively.

We will share how to find it to the press, so they can report on it and it will leak from there. The goal is to keep the mainstream from finding it while you all will find it, but also understand how to read it.

Yea, to avoid madVR vs. Lumagen wars, I will just provide a comment. Mathias has implemented some fancy chroma upsampling algorithms that no one else has. He also added support so I could send 4K120 to an LG to fully bypass their front end processing, ensuring we get proper 5:5 frame repeat for 24p sources when the LG is in PC mode and the LG tone mapping is programmed to be defeated and instead track PQ and hard clip.

I still consider Dolby Vision tone mapping, especially in 4.0, as the king of the hill. Even their old 2.9, which BD uses, is still better than everything else out there. When trim passes are done correctly, they are also more "objectively correct" as you have the artist vision and not just "subjectively pleasing" algorithms.

One of the complaints of tone mapping can be the tone mapped image is too saturated. This is more with the front projector crowd when comparing madvR and Lumagen. I shared my SDR grade of the montage (not trim passed this time) and Mathias was sort of shocked because it is a lot more saturated than a normal tone mapped HDR to SDR. It is what people complained about with his tone mapping. With SDR, we can never produce the same colors as the HDR as they don't exist in the smaller gamut. So saturation is how we get the look we want and SDR looks different than HDR and we pushed each format.

Let me state another way. Shane, the colorist, took a few months break between the HDR and SDR grade. He did NOT reference the HDR grade when working on the SR version. He simply started from scratch and got what he could out of SDR. In fact, we even made some colors entirely different in the LA Skyline shot, which is something you can do easily when your source is RAW. A tone mapped version would never do that. Once that was all done, he did compare against the HDR and then sharpened up the SDR to try and achieve a similar level of perceptual sharpness that HDR has at its native peak luminance.

When you compare 4000 nits to 2000 nits or 2000 nits to 1000 nits, you will notice a perceived difference in sharpness. The higher contrast of the higher nit looks visually sharper. So far tone mapping algorithms don't seem to compensate for this. Dolby does a little with one of their trim controls, which we max, but still not the same.

On the last disc, if you compared the HDR to the SDR trim version, the SDR looks a lot softer. We did not sharpen to the point of ringing, but it is sharper if you compare a tone mapped HDR to SDR to the real graded SDR on the new disc.

As far as not posting, I have also been busy working on my car project. I bought a RAV4 Prime in 2021 and have been doing a lot of work. I ripped out the entire interior and applied sound damping material. Installed custom audio that is a fully active system with DSP control. Everything is time aligned, EQd for the driver only. Just had a custom cargo floor built to exhaust the heat and added LED side-lit acrylic. It has dual 10" subs.

If you are not familiar with car audio and what fully active means, it is similar to how Meridian DSP speakers work. Each driver gets a dedicated channel from the DSP amp, so a digital crossover is used. I have a 1000 x 6 and a 1000 x 4 channel amp. The 6-channel amp drives the A-pillar, dash and door speaker on each side and the 4 channel drives the two rear door speakers and then we bridge two channels to drive the dual 10" sub as a single channel. We added a 2nd 12-volt battery to ensure the headlights don't dim when the bass is thumping. Unlike cars that you can hear the bass down the street, along with the rattle, the bass is well contained within the car due to the 150+ lbs of sound damping material and a floating barrier. We use mass loaded vinyl with neoprene attached that sits on top of the butyl (sound damping rubber) When I say we, I mean the shop that did the install.

Digital audio is taken from the head unit and sent to the rear. It then goes through a Toslink splitter and into each DSP amp to reduce the number of D/A and A/D conversions in the chain. All of the audio is lossless from Apple Music via "wired" CarPlay. Wireless CarPlay gets re-encoded to lossy on the fly.

The design in the acrylic is the front grill. They felt it was too plain otherwise. They measured the front grill and re-created it in the CAD software, so it is to scale.

Orange power cables were used for the audio system to match the orange power cables used for the Hybrid system to match.

Here is the rear laser jammer:

Had coilovers installed last weekend to lower the vehicle. When we installed 20" wheels, the wheel gap became too large and ugly. All of the custom suspension parts, except the coilovers, came in blue, so we had to have them powder coated red.

All of the suspension parts that needed to be powder coated, sorry about the bad lighting.

I go back in a few weeks to get it corner balanced, which is usually just done for track cars, but why not.

Here is a custom face plate for the throttle controller, scanguage III, DSP preset knob, USB for CarPlay and USB for the DSP amp tuning. The other knob, higher up, is for the subs/bass, so you can tune to taste. There are four DSP presets. Two have the bass knob disabled, for its calibrated state and two allow you to tweak on the fly. One preset has the rear speakers turned way down low and delayed as much as possible for competition mode (No, I don't compete) and the other is using the DSP up mixer for the rear fills. Or at least will be once Brian does the re-turn with the new cargo floor.

And would any other license plate be appropriate?

Here is the gap when the new wheels were installed.

Here they are now. About to install some over fenders and will get it re-aligned and gap tweaked once the coilovers settle and the corner balance is complete. But you should be able to see the difference in gap. No, not for off road use.

Arc Audio is from my home town and I was lucky enough to get Brian Mitchell, of ARC Audio, to tune my system. Brian wins many audio competitions around the country.

Who says only our home systems can sound good!

The car was ceramic coated using Ceramic Pro gold package. PPF on the front end. Best advise I was given was to tell Toyota dealer not to wash the vehicle when it came off the truck to minimize marring / scratching / swirls and they listened. You can see some swirling in the black plastic portions, but the metallic gray sparkles like a diamond. Also did not install the front plate. Had magnets installed behind the front bumper and magnets in the front plate. It just snaps on when needed.

I am now having the suspension / under carriage ceramic coated to help with salt/brine when it snows. Should help keep it from corrosion. I also had exoshield installed on the windshield, but that is coming off. It gets micro scratches from the pressure washer and has some bubbles and other issues like visual distortion.

The level of detail I have put into the car is the same level of detail we have put into the disc and patterns.

Sorry for going WAY OFF TOPIC, but it does involve high end audio and references HDR.

Last edited by Stacey Spears; 11-18-2022 at 02:56 PM.
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cheez avenger (11-20-2022), Robert Zohn (11-18-2022), Weasle (11-20-2022)