The Superhero's Racial Rubix Cube

[shuah]

First off, I would like to encourage any non-Caucasian Blu-Ray Forum members to put in their two cents on this thread, being that I'm a white male and I would like to hear some other opinions.
With that said, is anybody else a little annoyed at the recent skin color switcheroos that have been happening in Superhero movies? It isn't willy-nilly-allovertheplace, but it's enough to be noticeable and, frankly, I find it condescending to non-white ethnicities.

Alicia Masters is black, in the Fantastic Four movies. Nick Fury is black at the end of Iron Man and in the animated Avengers movie. Maverik is Asian in the new Wolverine picture.
I wouldn't have a problem with it, if these characters weren't white in the comics. And I don't have a problem with the changes just because it makes the movies less like the source material. There have been changes in comic book movies that I enjoyed; I liked the end of Watchmen (the movie) a little better than the end of Watchmen (the comic).

But when you change the ethnicity of a character, in order to diversify a cast, doesn't it condescend to the people of those races that you're trying to appeal to? It's a little too Superfriends style for this day and age, isn't it? Maybe I'm just being touchy, but I think this is coming from the same misguidedness that brought us the awful, insulting pander-characters, Black Vulcan, Apache Chief, El Dorado and Samurai.

On top of that, I find the way they cast ethnicities a bit ethically disappointing, as well. IE: Halley Berry as Storm.
It's like a bunch of blond-haired studio execs were talking to the casting director. "Storm's from Africa, right? So, she's Black, then? Ok. What about Halley Berry? She's a pretty big name, right now."

Not only did they pick Halley Berry, as if to say that Black = African (last I knew, "Black" meant you were a person of African descent that wasn't born in Africa) It's like they not only didn't pick an actress that was African. They didn't even bother picking one that was believably African. Halley Berry is mixed, obviously so, and doesn't even look believably Egyptian. It's as if the casting director didn't even care and took for granted that "brown is brown" and any actress of believable descent would be believable as a native African. I remember this being what bothered me the most about the X-Men movie, when I first saw it.

Then, in the second and third X-Movies, they don't even bother making Colossus Russian, as if "white is white". If I were Russian, that would piss me off a little bit. I mean, who's to say that Nationality matters less to people than race? Irish people are proud to be Irish. French people have a pride in their heritage. So, why ignore the nationality of a character who is white and mess around with the actual color of another?

I guess I just think Hollywood is really out of touch and it's only going to be a little while before they start offending their audiences, at large, just by trying to satisfy them.

[neos_peace]

I can respect what your saying. And understand it as well. I think your blowing it our of proportion thought. Pesoanlly I think they did a great job on casting wiht relation to Storm, Colossus (spelled worng oh wel). I think its more of not keeping wiht what we knew or know. But going wiht what lloks like the charachter, who is available a the time, and who they fel would bring the most to that particualr charchter. Remember Hollywood isn't abotu keeping things real (somtimes they are) but about making it big at the box office. soemtimes it works out for them to keep it real to the source but sometimes they can't. i think your just wanting to much from hollywood. IMO.

[mikejet]

Did you not read the new Avengers series Marvel did? Nick Fury is black. Specifically, he looks EXACTLY like Samuel L Jackson because he was designed in his likeness.

Plus, it makes more sense for comics and movies to represent the way the world really looks, i.e. multiracial.

[shuah]

Originally Posted by mikejet

Did you not read the new Avengers series Marvel did? Nick Fury is black. Specifically, he looks EXACTLY like Samuel L Jackson because he was designed in his likeness.

Plus, it makes more sense for comics and movies to represent the way the world really looks, i.e. multiracial.

That's why there are plenty of multi cultural characters in comics.
Changing characters is what I disagree with. Especially when they do it wrong.

And changing a comic to match the likeness of a planned movie character doesn't count. That's what the Marvel Ultimates line is for - making comic books for people who never picked one up, until they saw the movie.

[mikejet]

So you don't like the new Nick Fury?

[shuah]

Originally Posted by neos_peace

I think your just wanting to much from hollywood. IMO.

Is it too much to want movie stars and directors that talk about equality and harmony and human rights all of the time to put their money where their mouth is and actually treat other people as equals? When you condescend or pander to somebody, you're assuming that they have a baser understanding of themselves than you do and I personally find that kind of sickening.

Did you know the actress that played Uhura, in the new Star Trek movie, wasn't Black? Zoe Saldana, although devastatingly gorgeous and a good actress, is Dominican and Puerto Rican. Her skin just happened to be dark enough to be believable as an African American. You don't think there's something wrong with that?

[mikejet]

Originally Posted by shuah

I guess I just think Hollywood is really out of touch and it's only going to be a little while before they start offending their audiences, at large, just by trying to satisfy them.

Considering this year is set to break tons of BO totals, some movies have already for openings, I'd say Hollywood is very much in touch with their audiences.

Who are they offending anyway? People know this is entertainment. You'd have to be a really hardcore geek to complain about Collosus not being Russian. Plus, X3 was horrible. That's the real crime there. Making a crappy movie.

[neos_peace]

Originally Posted by shuah

Is it too much to want movie stars and directors that talk about equality and harmony and human rights all of the time to put their money where their mouth is and actually treat other people as equals? You don't think there's something wrong with that?

we don't always get what we want. However the base line in hollywood is ratings and money. eveytihng else comes second. we all know that. they do what they do to cater to a specific audience. not racis's or eithinticy. but age groups and such. I mean sometiems they do but most of the time it's a age groups. not backgrounds. its hollywod they've been doing this for years.

[shuah]

Originally Posted by mikejet

So you don't like the new Nick Fury?

I new somebody would try to play that game.

The "new New Nick fury" isn't new. He's the Ultimate Nick Fury. The Ultimate line is a separate line of comics, made by Marvel, with a separate continuity from their others. There are the X-Men and the Ultimate X-Men. The Avengers and the Ultimate Avengers.
The Ultimate line was designed to have a universe that was more accessible to people who enjoyed the movies but didn't want to dig through what's sometimes 50 years of continuity, to pick up a comic book.
Unfortunately, the Ultimate line just started mimicking the movies.
The "New Nick Fury" is just the Nick Fury from the end of Iron Man, plucked from the celluloid and wedged into the print.

Liking the ethnicity of a character isn't the issue. I think it'd would have been sweet if Nick Fury was black, from the beginning. But he wasn't. And, if you change a character, just to satisfy people, you're running a greater risk of offending them than if you just left the character alone and had an uncomfortable ratio of white heroes.

[shuah]

Originally Posted by neos_peace

we don't always get what we want. However the base line in hollywood is ratings and money. eveytihng else comes second. we all know that. they do what they do to cater to a specific audience. not racis's or eithinticy. but age groups and such. I mean sometiems they do but most of the time it's a age groups. not backgrounds. its hollywod they've been doing this for years.

I understand that, but I just think it's funny that they claim such an altruistic nature, culturally, when they really don't care. I'm not saying they owe anybody anything. I'm just calling them hypocrites and pointing out a fallacy in their methods.

[shuah]

Originally Posted by mikejet

Considering this year is set to break tons of BO totals, some movies have already for openings, I'd say Hollywood is very much in touch with their audiences.

Who are they offending anyway? People know this is entertainment. You'd have to be a really hardcore geek to complain about Collosus not being Russian. Plus, X3 was horrible. That's the real crime there. Making a crappy movie.

X-3 was truer to the comics and just as well written as X-2. Who's the whiney geek, now?

And using box office totals as a means to argue against the possibility of Hollywood alienating its own audiences in the future is pretty lame.
Every summer is set to break box office records.

[neos_peace]

Originally Posted by shuah

I understand that, but I just think it's funny that they claim such an altruistic nature, culturally, when they really don't care. I'm not saying they owe anybody anything. I'm just calling them hypocrites and pointing out a fallacy in their methods.

They might trullly feel that way as an individual person, but when it comes to making a movie. It dosn't apply. maybe it should, but generaly it doesn't movie's in their own dont' rely human condition, just money. the studio dictates what goes on not a peson's personal view on things. surely you understand that.

[cembros]

Originally Posted by shuah

Is it too much to want movie stars and directors that talk about equality and harmony and human rights all of the time to put their money where their mouth is and actually treat other people as equals? When you condescend or pander to somebody, you're assuming that they have a baser understanding of themselves than you do and I personally find that kind of sickening.

Did you know the actress that played Uhura, in the new Star Trek movie, wasn't Black? Zoe Saldana, although devastatingly gorgeous and a good actress, is Dominican and Puerto Rican. Her skin just happened to be dark enough to be believable as an African American. You don't think there's something wrong with that?

why does the fact that she is dominican and puerto rican mean that she isnt black. Plenty of black people from both those places

[mikejet]

Originally Posted by shuah

X-3 was truer to the comics and just as well written as X-2. Who's the whiney geek, now?

And using box office totals as a means to argue against the possibility of Hollywood alienating its own audiences in the future is pretty lame.
Every summer is set to break box office records.

I'm not being a whiney geek complaining about X3 being a bad movie, thats a fact. I don't care how true a movie is to the comic as long as they make something good and entertaining. I had HUGE reservations against Wanted because of all the changes made but when all was said and done, they made a great movie!

Plus I'm not complaining about them replacing a black character in the comic with a white one in the film. It doesn't matter. The movie was good and so is the comic. No harm no foul.

To complain about something like that seems so pointless.

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by shuah

That's why there are plenty of multi cultural characters in comics.

I can agree and disagree with this.

Take a look at the massive amount of African-American super-heros out there and the supporting cast of African-American character in comics...

oh wait, there aren't that many.

And let's be honest, naming a really good African American super-hero 'Black Panther' is something I'd be lined up to be offended at.

Changing characters is what I disagree with. Especially when they do it wrong.

Matter of perspective.

And changing a comic to match the likeness of a planned movie character doesn't count.

Except that's not what they did.

That's what the Marvel Ultimates line is for - making comic books for people who never picked one up, until they saw the movie.

So they planned this out years ago so they could get the Avengers movie set up?

Why wouldn't they release a comic in addition to the movie instead of the other way around?

Logan

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by shuah

X-3 was truer to the comics and just as well written as X-2. Who's the whiney geek, now?

It was?

I'd suggest you re-read the Phoenix Saga.

It was as far away from the comics as you could get while still calling it X-men.

Logan

[mikejet]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

It was?

I'd suggest you re-read the Phoenix Saga.

It was as far away from the comics as you could get while still calling it X-men.

Logan

The closet representaion of the Phoenix Saga ever done was in the cartoon series. I think they got most of it in.

[Slec]

My only issue would be if a character changed races in a continuum. If X-men was rebooted and Xavier was another race or nationality, it wouldn't bother me.

maybe a better example. Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. Will's Aunt had a character change during the show. If the new actress was lilly-white russian, I would have been pissed.

At the end of the day, look at the job they did in that story. If you can't, then think of the movie as a completely different continuum than the comics... it's not a big deal

[shuah]

Originally Posted by cembros

why does the fact that she is dominican and puerto rican mean that she isnt black. Plenty of black people from both those places

I guess that's a good point. But there's still the fact that there are very few Black people from those places. The thing with islands is that the gene pool homogenizes quickly. Most of the people, in Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic are pretty evenly mixed. Certain individuals just end up with traits that lean more strongly to one ethnicity or another. That's why there are blond Cubans. But if you ask almost any Cuban you meet, blond or not, they're either going to say they're Cuban or say they're Latino.
I understand I'm getting into semantics, here, but I'm just trying to make the point that, even though it isn't ALWAYS insensitive, it CAN be insensitive, when casting directors get lazy.

[shuah]

Originally Posted by Slec

My only issue would be if a character changed races in a continuum. If X-men was rebooted and Xavier was another race or nationality, it wouldn't bother me.

maybe a better example. Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. Will's Aunt had a character change during the show. If the new actress was lilly-white russian, I would have been pissed.

At the end of the day, look at the job they did in that story. If you can't, then think of the movie as a completely different continuum than the comics... it's not a big deal

I do think of the movies as a different continuity. I just think the spirit of the decision making is misguided.
"There's not any Asians in this movie. Who should we make Asian?"
If I were Asian, I'd much rather somebody develop an Asian character that wasn't even in the comic books than change somebody just to "make me feel represented."