Official dialnorm value thread

[cembros]

With all the confusion over transformers 2 and the dialnorm on the imax version i think its about time that we make some sort of record or database for dialnorm values on each release. When bitstreaming a movie my receiver will display a dialnorm value. I know there are many out there that can do the same so your help is encouraged. I think this will clear up alot of confusion and help people enjoy some really great soundtracks that they mistakenly beleive are subpar due to volume differences. So here is how it works, if the track has not been adjusted with dialnorm then the receiver will show a value of +4. If it has then the receiver will either show nothing or a value somewhere between +4 and 0(which is not displayed). The only track that i have encounted that showed a value other than +4 or 0 (remember 0 is not displayed) is Indiana Jones which had a value of -2. The dialnorm value displayed is the db level you will have to adjust your receiver (not all receivers will display volume in db so someone will have to provied more infor on how to adjust those receivers) to acheive refrence volume. For example, Transformers 2 standard edition displays a dialnorm value of +4, a refrence volume is -4 below 0, the IMAX version displays no dialnorm value (0) so reference volume is 0 on your receiver. I will begin a small list with some movies i have just viewed and anyone who would like to contribute can message me and i will update the list accordingly.

300 (true hd):0
Cloverfield:0
The Dark Knight:+4
Indiana Jones Crystal Skull:-2
Kung Fu Panda:+4
Police Live:+4
Shaun of the Dead:+4
Superman Returns (true hd):0
Transformers:0
Transformers 2 (Standard):+4
Transformers 2 (IMAX):0

[cembros]

I just wanted to add a note, Indiana Jones has a dialnorm value of -2, this means that to achieve reference volume you have to play the track at +2. I only just realized this as i always assumed that the dialnorm was +2 since most tracks report a postive value (+4 for the most part). I always found the track to be a bit disappointing as i played it at -2db but playing it at +2db really brings the track alive and it sounds as i would expect it. I think this is a very important point and i really hope everyone takes note and goes back to revisit the movie at the proper volume. Just to sum things up and make it a little eaiser to understand, if you play most tracks (those without dialnorm, ie. a lot of dtshdma tracks) at a certain volume, you will need to increase the volume of Indiana Jones by 6 db to reach reference volume.
I have edited my previous post to reflect my observations.

[BIslander]

Something is amiss here. You can't have dialnorm offsets that are both positive and negative. Decoders only lower volume based on dialnorm. They never increase it. Some receivers report offsets in negative numbers, the amount the decoder lowered the overall volume so that average dialog is output at -31dBFS. Others report positive numbers. I believe some Onkyos actually undo the reduction done by the decoder and report the amount the AVR increased the volume to compensate for the amouint the decoder decreased.

[cembros]

Yea I was surprised myself but it seems that Indiana jones was recorded 2db quieter than other tracks with dialnorm and 6 db lower than those without resulting in a negative dialnorm value

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by cembros

Yea I was surprised myself but it seems that Indiana jones was recorded 2db quieter than other tracks with dialnorm and 6 db lower than those without resulting in a negative dialnorm value

I'm not sure what you are saying here and - no offense intended - but I suspect you aren't quite clear about it yourself.

For example, in one post you say Indiana Jones has a dialnorm value of -2. That's certainly not the case. A DN value of -2 would mean average dialog was recorded just 2dB below full scale, leaving no room for anything louder in the soundtrack. (Dialnorm is a negative number from -1 to -31 showing the level of average dialog below full scale. Dolby and DTS-HD decoders are designed to output average dialog at 31dB below full scale.)

Processors don't show the actual dialnorm value in the metadata. Rather, they show the dialnorm offset, which is the difference between -31 and the dialnorm entry. If a soundtrack has a -27 dialnorm, the offset is 4dB. That's the amount the decoder will lower the overall volume. A -25 dialnorm means a 6dB adjustment. And, a dialnorm of -29 produces a 2dB adjustment.

You simply cannot have both negative and positive numbers as dialnorm offsets. Decoders lower overall volume when the dialnorm value is something other than -31. They never raise it. The movies with +4 offsets on your list have dialnorm values of -27. Those with offsets of 0 have dialnorms of -31. The only way to get to an offset of -2 on your scale is with a dialnorm of -33, which is not an allowable entry in the metadata. If dialog is actually recorded lower than -31dBFS, there's no way to adjust for that with dialnorm.

I like the idea of posting dialnorm offsets for various movies. But, the list will only be useful if the information is accurate and consistent.

[cembros]

By stating the dialnorm values I am representing what the receive displays. I understand that it is not an actual dialnorm value. My goal here is to ensure that people listen to their movies at the propper volume. Maybe I wasn't perfectly clear in my posts, I am doing these from my phone, I think this is a really great idea and will really help more people enjoy their home theater. Maybe you and I can pit something together when I can get to a real computer that is more detailed a better structured and begin a new thread. After discovering the annomly with Indiana jones and finally playing the track at it's intended volume I discovered a whole new movie. What do you think?

[BIslander]

I think it's an interesting idea. But, I must admit I am skeptical that people will post accurate and consistent numbers. Receivers have different ways of reporting how dialnorm is handled. If your SC05 actually displays +4 for some movies and -2 for Indiana Jones, it's unclear to me what those numbers even mean.

[Hammie]

I have an Oppo BD player and a Denon 3808ci. I just threw in a couple BD's and this is what I found:

Indiana Jones: Crystal Skull showed an offset of -6db.
Dark Knight showed no offset
Kung Fu Panda showed no offset
Transformers 1 showed an offset of -4
Transformers 2: ROTF (IMAX) showed an offset of -4

Not sure if this helps any, but this is what I see with my setup.

EDIT I just threw in two more:

300: -4 (TrueHD)
Cloverfield: -4

[BIslander]

300 (true hd):0
300: -4 (TrueHD)

Cloverfield:0
Cloverfield: -4

The Dark Knight:+4
Dark Knight showed no offset

Indiana Jones Crystal Skull:-2
Indy showed an offset of -6db.

Kung Fu Panda:+4
KFP showed no offset

Transformers:0
Transformers showed an offset of -4

Transformers 2 (IMAX):0
Transformers 2 (IMAX) showed an offset of -4

Pretty clear pattern there. The offset reported by LouHamilton's Denon is always four units less than Cembros' Pioneer.

I have a Denon and I know that it reports the amount of attenuation in the overall volume because of dialnorm. The discs with no offset have DNs of -31. Those with -4 offsets have DN values of -27 (the Dolby default). And, it looks like the Indiana Jones disc has a dialnorm of -25.

I don't know what Pioneer means when it reports an offset of +4 or -2. (Actually, it looks like Pioneer has decided to use -27 as its reference point - an odd decision, but one that explains the +4 and -2.) And that's the problem with trying to put together a list like this. Since there's no uniformity in how CE manufacturers report DN adjustments, the same disc produces different offset numbers from receiver to receiver. The keeper of the list will need to know how to translate offset numbers from each manufacturer into actual dialnorm values.

[cembros]

ok well maybe we can figure out the actual dialnorm value for each movie such as -31, -27,-25 and report that instead. We can supplement that with an explanation of how receivers interprite that number and how to adjust for that number.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Something is amiss here. You can't have dialnorm offsets that are both positive and negative. Decoders only lower volume based on dialnorm. They never increase it. Some receivers report offsets in negative numbers, the amount the decoder lowered the overall volume so that average dialog is output at -31dBFS. Others report positive numbers. I believe some Onkyos actually undo the reduction done by the decoder and report the amount the AVR increased the volume to compensate for the amouint the decoder decreased.

Yep, my onkyo boost dialnorm tracks by 4db.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by louhamilton

I have an Oppo BD player and a Denon 3808ci. I just threw in a couple BD's and this is what I found:

Indy showed an offset of -6db.
Dark Knight showed no offset
KFP showed no offset
Transformers showed an offset of -4
Transformers 2 (IMAX) showed an offset of -4

Not sure if this helps any, but this is what I see with my setup.

EDIT I just threw in two more:

300: -4 (TrueHD)
Cloverfield: -4

I thought only the imax version was dialnormed?

EDIT- you ment part 1.

[Hammie]

Watched a couple more Movies:

King Kong: 0db
G.I. Joe: -6db

[Hammie]

Bug's Life: 0db

[shadow72]

What I've found so far....

DTS-HD MA TITLES:

G.I. JOE - -6db
FORREST GUMP - -4db
IMAX TRANSFORMERS ROTF - -4db
GLADIATOR - 4db


TrueHD (all TrueHD titles are -4db with these exceptions):

INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL - -6db

[mac.21]

Can you guys let me know what braveheart's dialnorm value is? Much appreciated.

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by mac.21

Can you guys let me know what braveheart's dialnorm value is? Much appreciated.

I don't own it, so I'm not sure.

[Driver_King]

Originally Posted by saprano

Yep, my onkyo boost dialnorm tracks by 4db.

Hmm. I have an 805 and a PS3. Would my receiver adjust the dialnorm track since the PS3 is sending a PCM track?

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by Driver_King

Hmm. I have an 805 and a PS3. Would my receiver adjust the dialnorm track since the PS3 is sending a PCM track?

No. Since your receiver is getting the PCM stream it doesn't see the offset tag. The PS3 has already read the tag. I'm not sure how the PS3 handles this nor do I know where, or if, the level can be found on the PS3.

You will only see the offset value if you are bitstreaming it to your receiver.

[shadow72]

Originally Posted by mac.21

Can you guys let me know what braveheart's dialnorm value is? Much appreciated.

I own, and checked, Braveheart and it is -4db which is the typical TrueHD dialnorm.