The bigest dissapointment with panasonic bd80

[misko]

So i just got back from the store where i have returned this piece of c..p
This is got to be the most stupid decision in my HT life.
Let me explain why-the reason why i have bought it was:5.1out with onboard decoding lossless true hd,dts master audio,since i have preamp without those decoders.The other reason was upscaling DVD videos to 1080i.
I didnt much care about bluray discs itself as far as PQ goes,i knew it was going to be much better then DVDs,and it was.

The onboard decoding is just ridicolous comparing to my preamp which only decodes DD or DTS.And yes,i have taken into consideration lowered 5.1out from the player.No matter how much i tried to tweak it,it just wasnt there.Talk about lossless codecs

The upscaling....just didnt do anything.Just lost my entire day with it.Even when compared to my older dvd-audio-sacd player,set it at 1080i resolution it has worse picture thru my projector.

In the end i am glad i was able to return it and i can once again enjoy my good old dvd player.

dont say i didnt warned you
mike

[Zman2k2]

bye?

Does that mean you've given up on Blu-ray, or just on the Panasonic?

[Tok]

The OP is troll bait.

If it isn't, then I am sorry but it sounds to me like you don't have system capable of supporting true BD quality.

You weren't specific about your analog connection issue. Was it just volume? Are you sure you did not have any DRC enabled on the player? Also with the Panasonic players you have to set the Secondary Audio feature to off in the player setup menu to ensure that you are getting the selected lossless track vs. the piggybacked lossy one.

As far as upconverting, no upconverting algorithm is going to turn low-resolution video into true HD video. They can't add REAL detail. Most good upconverters are just scaling with some decent filtering applied to get rid of the blockiness/harshness that scaling algorithms sometimes create.

Also is your projection system delivering native 1080 resolution? The panels should have a native resolution of 1920x1080. If it is not NATIVE, then all the projector is doing is rescaling a 1080 signal to the native panel resolution. I have never heard of the Epson TW20 PJ, but I am guessing it is not 1920x1080 native resolution. Edit: The TW20 is a 854 x 480 Native Resolution projector. YOU ARE NOT GAINING ANYTHING SCALING TO 1080 and then back 480. ALL YOU ARE DOING IS FORCING YOUR DVDS THROUGH TWO UNNECESSARY CONVERSIONS.

These are the only Epson PJs that I am aware of that are 1920 x 1080 native:
Epson Home/Pro Cinema 1080 (aka TW1000)
Epson Home/Pro Cinema 1080UB (aka TW2000)
Epson Home Cinema 6100UB / Pro Cinema 7100UB (aka TW5000)
Epson Home Cinema 6500UB / Pro Cinema 7500UB (aka TW5000)
Epson Home Cinema 8100UB / Pro Cinema 9100UB (aka TW5000)
Epson Home Cinema 8500UB / Pro Cinema 9500UB


T

[Rblu-Dblu]

So he cares about the pq of dvd's but not the pq of blu's?

[misko]

Originally Posted by Rblu-Dblu

So he cares about the pq of dvd's but not the pq of blu's?

yes,exactly because i have only dvds..

[Tok]

Originally Posted by misko

yes,exactly because i have only dvds..

Then how did you determine lossless from the Panny was junk?

YOU CAN'T GET 5.1 LOSSLESS FROM DVD unless its a DVD-A.

Are you still using the TW20? Then you have no business bashing BD. YOUR SYSTEM IS NOT EVEN CAPABLE OF DELIVERING WHAT BLU CAN DO

Sounds to me like you are ticked off that your system is no longer consider state of the art. Hate to tell all high-end equipment is eventually yesterday's technology.

[misko]

Originally Posted by CraigW

The OP is troll bait.

If it isn't, then I am sorry but it sounds to me like you don't have system capable of supporting true BD quality.

You weren't specific about your analog connection issue. Was it just volume? Are you sure you did not have any DRC enabled on the player? With the Panasonic players you have to set the Secondary Audio feature to off in the player setup menu to ensure that you are getting the selected lossless track vs. the piggybacked lossy one.

As far as upconverting, no upconverting algorithm is going to turn low-resolution video into true HD video. They can't add REAL detail. Most good upconverters are just scaling with some decent filtering applied to get rid of the blockiness/harshness that scaling algorithms sometimes create.

I have a system which should be capable of supporting BD quality soundwise.
And yes secondary audio was off,and noDRC enabled either.I know that no upscale would turn SD into HD,but everyone is raving about how good upconverts work

[misko]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Then how did you determine lossless from the Panny was junk?

YOU CAN'T GET 5.1 LOSSLESS FROM DVD unless its a DVD-A

I have rented bluray disc...you didnt think i was talking about dvds,did you?

[misko]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Then how did you determine lossless from the Panny was junk?

YOU CAN'T GET 5.1 LOSSLESS FROM DVD unless its a DVD-A.

Are you still using the TW20? Then you have no business bashing BD. YOUR SYSTEM IS NOT EVEN CAPABLE OF DELIVERING WHAT BLU CAN DO

Sounds to me like you are ticked off that your system is no longer consider state of the art. Hate to tell all high-end equipment is eventually yesterday's technology.

You got it all wrong,craig,i am not bashing picture,i am bashing the lossless codecs in players,and upconverting feature in them..

[Tok]

Originally Posted by misko

I have rented bluray disc...you didnt think i was talking about dvds,did you?

You seem more concerned with attacking the belief that lossless is better.

Hate to tell you after listening to dts-HD MA and TrueHD tracks, like with DVD picture quality I can no longer tolerate the outdated lossy compression technology on DVD.


BTW which BD were you using to test lossless?

[misko]

Originally Posted by CraigW

You seem more concerned with attacking the belief that lossless is better.

Hate to tell you after listening to dts-HD MA and TrueHD tracks, like with DVD picture quality I can no longer tolerate the outdated lossy compression technology on DVD.


BTW which BD were you using to test lossless?

Transformers 2

[Tok]

Originally Posted by misko

You got it all wrong,craig,i am not bashing picture,i am bashing the lossless codecs in players,and upconverting feature in them..

Why are you even upconverting if you are still using the TW20? you should be sending DVD at its native 480. See above. All you are doing is putting the video signal through two unnecessary conversions (480 -> 1080 -> 480). Just send it 480. You should only upconvert if you are using a display capable of the upconvert resolution.


Personally I don't care about upconversion for DVD on BD players. I don't do DVD anymore.

[misko]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Why are you even upconverting if you are still using the TW20? you should be sending DVD at its native 480. See above. All you are doing is putting the video signal through two unnecessary conversions (480 -> 1080 -> 480). Just send it 480. You should only upconvert if you are using a display capable of the upconvert resolution.


Personally I don't care about upconversion for DVD on BD players. I don't do DVD anymore.

The pj can take 1080i..

[Tok]

Originally Posted by misko

Transformers 2

Was it the Big Screen Edition? The audio on that title is recorded 4dB lower than the standard BD and probably DVD. Just turn up your amp +4dB.

I wonder if your sub is overpowering the nuances heard in lossless audio. Do you run it hot?

[Tok]

Originally Posted by misko

The pj can take 1080i..

You don't get it.

It may accept the resolution, but the projector (or any fixed pixel display technology) still can only display a video signal at its native resolution. Again what you are doing is unnecessary.

It probably takes a 1080i signal because many HD broadcast are done in that format. It can take the signal but it is DOWNCONVERTING it back to its native resolution of 480.

Look I am not trying to be harsh. I am just trying to help you understand.

I just don't like it when people come in here uniformed and make blanket statements. And let's be frank your original post sure does sound like someone with an axe to grind over the format.

[misko]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Was it the Big Screen Edition? The audio on that title is recorded 4dB lower than the standard BD and probably DVD. Just turn up your amp +4dB.

I wonder if your sub is overpowering the nuances heard in lossless audio. Do you run it hot?

I dont know which edition it was.
But i am not talking about volume difference,i was comparing at the same volume,
No the sub is not running hot.
I even turned the sub off,just to hear only speakers..

[misko]

Originally Posted by CraigW

You don't get it.

It may accept the resolution, but the projector (or any fixed pixel display technology) still can only display a video signal at its native resolution. Again what you are doing is unnecessary.

It probably takes a 1080i signal because many HD broadcast are done in that format. It can take the signal but it is DOWNCONVERTING it back to its native resolution of 480.

But the picture from BD was very good at resolution 1080i,dvd was nothing better

[Tok]

Originally Posted by misko

But the picture from BD was very good at resolution 1080i,dvd was nothing better

The BD was still being downconverted to 480 at the projector, but remember BD has technical advantage in higher bitrate, so it is not surprising that even displayed at a standard def resolution that it looked better than the DVD. I saw the same thing with my digital cable box on my old SD 32" tube TV. The HD feeds looked significantly better than the SD digital cable channels. Why? There was more data in the HD signal that survived the downconversion vs. the significant filtering and bit-robbing my cable company was doing to the SD version of the same channel.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by misko

I dont know which edition it was.
But i am not talking about volume difference,i was comparing at the same volume,
No the sub is not running hot.
I even turned the sub off,just to hear only speakers..

I find lossless to have more clarity, more definition, more separation. Some are expecting a night and day difference. Its there but you have to be listening critically.

As I said above I find the difference between lossy and lossless track more noticeable are primarily listening to lossless for a period of time and then going back to watch a DVD. I find the picture atrocious on most DVDs anymore and the sound well it sounds compressed.

[misko]

once again..its not the picture of BD i am complaining about,its built in decoders for lossless dd,dts..