Clear Center Channel Audio Issue

[rlmbluray]

I was watching the new Robin Hood Blu-ray through my Home Theater (B&W Nautilus Center Channel Speaker, Denon AVP-A1HDCI). My wife complained that she was having trouble understanding the dialog (She complained before about this many times, many BD's). I have the system Audyssey calibrated using PLIIX, and THX Ultra Cinema for playback.

Anyone have similar issues with clear dialog in the center channel, and ideas on how to get a clearer center channel.

Thanks

[BIslander]

Have you calibrated by hand with a test disc and an SPL meter? That's a good idea, even when using an auto-configuration system.

You can always increase the volume of the center channel a few dBs. The center carries most of the dialog.

Or, you can engage Dynamic Range Control, although that usually only works with Dolby sources. Your receiver may have a "midnight mode" that works like DRC on all sources. DRC lowers the volume of the loudest parts and increases the volume of the quietest parts, which makes dialog easier to hear through the other sound effects.

[rlmbluray]

Good ideas,

Thanks

[srrndhound]

Originally Posted by rlmbluray

I was watching the new Robin Hood Blu-ray through my Home Theater (B&W Nautilus Center Channel Speaker, Denon AVP-A1HDCI). My wife complained that she was having trouble understanding the dialog (She complained before about this many times, many BD's).

Well, while indeed you may be able to improve things on your end, don't feel bad if you never get Robin Hood to pop clearly. It has notably poor production sound, partly due to the outdoor circumstances and partly due to Russel's mumbling nature, coupled with his reluctance to do much ADR.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by srrndhound

Well, while indeed you may be able to improve things on your end, don't feel bad if you never get Robin Hood to pop clearly. It has notably poor production sound, partly due to the outdoor circumstances and partly due to Russel's mumbling nature, coupled with his reluctance to do much ADR.

...Good point Roger. ...And "Robin Hood" ain't the only movie with poor sound production from the Center channel. ...Lots of them out there, with or without ADR. (I hate ADR! , but I do understand its necessity.)

[crackinhedz]

rlmbluray, can you check a setting in your receiver for me?

pg 32 user manual:

HDMI > HDMI Control > Off

HDMI Setup > Audio > AMP or TV

...should be set to AMP.

Sometimes if this is set to TV, this can force 2 channel audio output...which results in a lacking center channel.

ProLogicIIx and THX Cinema simulate the center channel.


May not be your problem...but worth a look.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by srrndhound

Well, while indeed you may be able to improve things on your end, don't feel bad if you never get Robin Hood to pop clearly. It has notably poor production sound, partly due to the outdoor circumstances and partly due to Russel's mumbling nature, coupled with his reluctance to do much ADR.

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

...Good point Roger. ...And "Robin Hood" ain't the only movie with poor sound production from the Center channel. ...Lots of them out there, with or without ADR. (I hate ADR! , but I do understand its necessity.)

These are 2 posts I don't understand !

I had no issues with the center channel with this sound track whatsoever, in fact the whole front sound stage was vary forward & clear with what was going on & being said threw-out the entire movie.

Even the Blu-ray reviewer gives it an excellent Audio review & mentions nothing of what your posts say !

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

These are 2 posts I don't understand !

I had no issues with the center channel with this sound track whatsoever, in fact the whole front sound stage was vary forward & clear with what was going on & being said threw-out the entire movie.

Even the Blu-ray reviewer gives it an excellent Audio review & mentions nothing of what your posts say !

Maybe we're both wrong then!

Or that both our setups (plus the OP's one) are not as good than yours! ...Or our ears?
> Maybe we should have a poll about The Intelligibility of the Center Channel when Playing "Robin Hood" on Blu-ray. ...What da ya think?

Brent, I'm just sayin', but I know for a fact that everyone hears differently from their Center speaker in their own setup. ...And that's why we do have separate Speaker Channel Levels. ...And that different movies on Blu-ray are recorded differently and at different overall volume levels.
Plus, Russell Crowe is not the easiest guy to decipher auditorily, with his particular vocal "amplitude modulation".

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Maybe we're both wrong then!

Or that both our setups (plus the OP's one) are not as good than yours! ...Or our ears?
> Maybe we should have a poll about The Intelligibility of the Center Channel when Playing "Robin Hood" on Blu-ray. ...What da ya think?

Brent, I'm just sayin', but I know for a fact that everyone hears differently from their Center speaker in their own setup. ...And that's why we do have separate Speaker Channel Levels.

I was merely stating my experience with that movie ! & my setup is not better then anyone Else's setup ~ I take offense to that.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

I was merely stating my experience with that movie ! & my setup is not better then anyone Else's setup ~ I take offense to that.

You ain't serious? ...What offense?

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

...What offense?

Im gonna go out on a limb and say it was probably sarcasm.

[Rob J in WNY]

I just picked up Robin Hood (Russel Crowe) the other day. May have to check this out for myself.

[srrndhound]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

These are 2 posts I don't understand !

I had no issues with the center channel with this sound track whatsoever, in fact the whole front sound stage was vary forward & clear with what was going on & being said threw-out the entire movie.

Even the Blu-ray reviewer gives it an excellent Audio review & mentions nothing of what your posts say !

The absence of a reviewer comment is no proof there are no problems. I agree it is an excellent movie, and having rented the BD from Netflix, have ordered it. But listen carefully--some of the outdoor scenes the voices sound like key are in a closet--chesty sounding. Other places are muffled. By no means do the problems permeate the entire movie. But it only takes a few unintelligible words for viewers to raise a concern over a missed line.

I happened to be visiting a dubbing stage last week where another Crowe project was being played and the production dialog was really clean--and I commented about the Robin Hood audio, and my perceptions were confirmed from folks who know. As Bob says, it's more the rule than the exception to have parts of the mix marred by poor dialog recording.

Animated features are the only ones where we are assured to have crystal clear dialog from start to finish.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

Im gonna go out on a limb and say it was probably sarcasm.

That's what I first thought, but I don't know Brent very well just yet; only that he likes to put lots of those in his posts:

[Yeha-Noha]

I can empathize with you if your wife's sentiments or gripes are anything like my wife's. I mean if I buy something and pay a lot for it, it better damn well work flawlessly or I get nagged to the nth degree! If I had your problem with the B&W Nautilus center, I can hear her now: You paid a $1000 for that POS? Oh sweetheart don't worry about it I'll get it working soon.... .

That's a damn nice center you got there. It should reproduce outstanding dialogue. However, I'm wondering how you calibrated your system because PLIIx isn't part of any calibration process. You said, "I have the system Audyssey calibrated using PLIIX." You don't use PLIIx to calibrate anything. It's a decoder designed to derive 5.1 to 7.1 channels from two channel PCM sources. However, it can also be used to derive 6.1 to 7.1 channels from PCM 5.1 channels. You don't even actually have to have your system calibrated to use a PLIIx decoder. So what did you mean by that statement?

I really don't see how one could go wrong using Audyssey. But, it isn't perfect. It can't cure a room that's an acoustical nightmare either. It may have set the center channel lower than it should be. That's why it's a good idea to invest in an SPL meter and Avia or DVE calibration disks. Then check each channel to make sure that at your AVR's 0.0 db volume level all your speakers read 75 db SPL from where you are seated.

Of course if that doesn't work, as a last resort and it's already been mentioned, you can try bumping up the center channel up to 2.0 db. But to me, that's sort of like using a cheater plug to cure a ground loop problem. IOW, you can bump up the center channel so you can hear it better, but you haven't really solved the problem. Your room may require special room treatments. I would venture to say that a lot of folks who have this problem should really look into that.

[Herr Eickhorn]

Originally Posted by rlmbluray

I was watching the new Robin Hood Blu-ray through my Home Theater (B&W Nautilus Center Channel Speaker, Denon AVP-A1HDCI). My wife complained that she was having trouble understanding the dialog (She complained before about this many times, many BD's). I have the system Audyssey calibrated using PLIIX, and THX Ultra Cinema for playback.

Anyone have similar issues with clear dialog in the center channel, and ideas on how to get a clearer center channel.

Thanks

Its not your system - its Robin Hood. My wife & I noticed the same thing and my system is high end state of the art. We have noticed some BD's center channel disks are crystal clear and some are muddy. I use to think it was my system and it use to drive me crazy. But now I know the quality of the center channel dialog varies among BD disks. Robin Hood is pretty bad. We thought it was a bad movie too!

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Herr Eickhorn

Its not your system - its Robin Hood. My wife & I noticed the same thing and my system is high end state of the art. We have noticed some BD's center channel disks are crystal clear and some are muddy. I use to think it was my system and it use to drive me crazy. But now I know the quality of the center channel dialog varies among BD disks. Robin Hood is pretty bad. We thought it was a bad movie too!

You sir are absolutely correct!

[acritzer]

This is one of the most frustrating aspects to watching BD, the inconsistent mixing as it pertains to dialogue. I can easily add the dialogue enhancement from my BD player, but it's irritating to keep jumping back and forth.

Most recently I found myself having to turn it on for Inception (which also had good audio reviews). Maybe I just watch at a low master volume? But, man it's frustrating.

[Herr Eickhorn]

Originally Posted by acritzer

This is one of the most frustrating aspects to watching BD, the inconsistent mixing as it pertains to dialogue. I can easily add the dialogue enhancement from my BD player, but it's irritating to keep jumping back and forth.

Most recently I found myself having to turn it on for Inception (which also had good audio reviews). Maybe I just watch at a low master volume? But, man it's frustrating.

Its funny you mention Inception. My wife & I just watched it Saturday night. While the center channel dialog was a little better than Robin Hood, I found it often muddied. And I could hardly understand a word of what the Asian guy was saying. But if you are into explosions, the LFE effects were great!

[acritzer]

Originally Posted by Herr Eickhorn

Its funny you mention Inception. My wife & I just watched it Saturday night. While the center channel dialog was a little better than Robin Hood, I found it often muddied. And I could hardly understand a word of what the Asian guy was saying. But if you are into explosions, the LFE effects were great!

Yeah, I just read the review again, and it specifically mentions the dialogue being clear and understandable at all times so I don't know why mine seemed the opposite. I particularly noticed it in the first several opening scenes.