Plot Holes (Spoilers!)

[The_Basterd]

Name movies with gigantic plot holes.

1- Memento: If Leonard has short-term memory loss, how does he remember his condition...>?

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by The_Basterd

Name movies with gigantic plot holes.

1- Memento: If Leonard has short-term memory loss, how does he remember his condition...>?

That's not a plot hole. He knows his condition precisely because he has short-term memory loss...and not long-term memory loss. He remembers his condition the same way he remembers everything else about himself that is long term - who he is, who his wife was, his previous job, his clients - everything before "the incident." This is explained in the movie.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

That's not a plot hole. He knows his condition precisely because he has short-term memory loss...and not long-term memory loss. He remembers his condition the same way he remembers everything else about himself that is long term - who he is, who his wife was, his previous job, his clients - everything before "the incident." This is explained in the movie.

But untill the incident her didn't have short-term memory loss. My understanding is said people usually don't know that they have it, but some do.

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by Suntory_Times

But untill the incident her didn't have short-term memory loss. My understanding is said people usually don't know that they have it, but some do.

Exactly. And it's explained that he does. Not a plot hole.

[Meeklo]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

Exactly. And it's explained that he does. Not a plot hole.

Actually it is a plot hole.

My film appreciation class just watched Memento for our discussion on editing and we spent some time discussing this very subject.

He has short term memory loss but he did not get that condition until after the incident. He remembers everything before the incident, including his name and wife. He cannot remember that he has the condition because of his condition.

The only exception is he has that Sammy Jankis tattoo on his hand, in which he remembers Sammy from before the incident. And that tattoo would help "remind" him of his condition. But he does not look at his hand and remember Sammy everytime his memory resets, yet he still remembers having the condition.

Now for a new plot hole: Back To the Future 2

When future Biff goes back in time to give young Biff the almanac, he then returns to the same future he left from. He should have arrived at that alternate 2015 instead. I understand that a deleted scene showed future Biff fade away when he got back but the whole reality should have been different.

[Spicoli]

Originally Posted by Meeklo

Actually it is a plot hole.

[Show spoiler]My film appreciation class just watched Memento for our discussion on editing and we spent some time discussing this very subject.

He has short term memory loss but he did not get that condition until after the incident. He remembers everything before the incident, including his name and wife. He cannot remember that he has the condition because of his condition.

The only exception is he has that Sammy Jankis tattoo on his hand, in which he remembers Sammy from before the incident. And that tattoo would help "remind" him of his condition. But he does not look at his hand and remember Sammy everytime his memory resets, yet he still remembers having the condition.

Now for a new plot hole: Back To the Future 2

When future Biff goes back in time to give young Biff the almanac, he then returns to the same future he left from. He should have arrived at that alternate 2015 instead. I understand that a deleted scene showed future Biff fade away when he got back but the whole reality should have been different.

That is cool.

When I looked up this thread I was so surprised on the low count of posts. This should be a much bigger thread.

I will never say a Plot Hole takes away from a movie, suspension of belief is a given its why I like Knight and Day so much. But some flicks play some pretty funny stuff.

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by Meeklo

Actually it is a plot hole.

My film appreciation class just watched Memento for our discussion on editing and we spent some time discussing this very subject.

He has short term memory loss but he did not get that condition until after the incident. He remembers everything before the incident, including his name and wife. He cannot remember that he has the condition because of his condition.

The only exception is he has that Sammy Jankis tattoo on his hand, in which he remembers Sammy from before the incident. And that tattoo would help "remind" him of his condition. But he does not look at his hand and remember Sammy everytime his memory resets, yet he still remembers having the condition.

Good points. I'll agree then that he cannot "remember" he has a condition in the long term (although according to these doctors there's no definitive answer - https://www.healthtap.com/#user_ques...rm-memory-loss
). But he would know something is wrong every 15 minutes when he can't remember what happened 15 minutes ago. When he is suddenly sitting in a cafe and can't remember how he got there, he is not just going to shrug his shoulders and move on with his day. The continual loss of memory is going to be a constant reminder. So I'd argue that it's still not a plot hole. His tattoos and wealth of notes that he sees every day would not only be constant reminders of his condition, they would keep him on track of his goal.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by Meeklo

Actually it is a plot hole.

My film appreciation class just watched Memento for our discussion on editing and we spent some time discussing this very subject.

He has short term memory loss but he did not get that condition until after the incident. He remembers everything before the incident, including his name and wife. He cannot remember that he has the condition because of his condition.

The only exception is he has that Sammy Jankis tattoo on his hand, in which he remembers Sammy from before the incident. And that tattoo would help "remind" him of his condition. But he does not look at his hand and remember Sammy everytime his memory resets, yet he still remembers having the condition.

It mentioned that short term Memory loss doesn't effect the memory you get through repetition, so I always figured he remembers he has a condition through the sheer amount of times it has occurred to him and he needed it explaining under care.

[Suntory_Times]

Episode 5: Empire Strikes back, look how quick he becomes a 'jedi'

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by Suntory_Times

Episode 5: Empire Strikes back, look how quick he becomes a 'jedi'

Yeah, I've always "let that one go", cause the movie is so great otherwise. But yeah, he becomes a Jedi (well, almost), in the time it takes Han and Leia to get to Cloud City. Guess he's a quick learner.

[JTStarkiller]

Originally Posted by Suntory_Times

Episode 5: Empire Strikes back, look how quick he becomes a 'jedi'

Well, first off, he's not a Jedi until the end of VI. And secondly, it's the beginning of the New Jedi Order by this time. The galaxy was in DESPERATE need of Jedi, so the rules are bent. I think it makes perfect sense.

[Riff Magnum]

Originally Posted by JTStarkiller

Well, first off, he's not a Jedi until the end of VI. And secondly, it's the beginning of the New Jedi Order by this time. The galaxy was in DESPERATE need of Jedi, so the rules are bent. I think it makes perfect sense.

It's frickin' star wars and it is Yoda after all. He's a pretty good teacher, what with his awkward subject verb agreement and all.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by JTStarkiller

Well, first off, he's not a Jedi until the end of VI. And secondly, it's the beginning of the New Jedi Order by this time. The galaxy was in DESPERATE need of Jedi, so the rules are bent. I think it makes perfect sense.

"Bending rules" isn't the same as learning a disciplined art form that takes others a lifetime to learn. I know he is a "Skywalker", but it took Anakin his whole life to learn as well - and even then, he couldn't beat Ben.

[JTStarkiller]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

"Bending rules" isn't the same as learning a disciplined art form that takes others a lifetime to learn. I know he is a "Skywalker", but it took Anakin his whole life to learn as well - and even then, he couldn't beat Ben.

So what's Yoda supposed to say? "Umm, Luke, since you just started and you're about 21 now, you're unfortunately not gonna be a Jedi until you're in your 40s. Let's just let the Empire stick around for another two decades while you learn everything."

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

"Bending rules" isn't the same as learning a disciplined art form that takes others a lifetime to learn. I know he is a "Skywalker", but it took Anakin his whole life to learn as well - and even then, he couldn't beat Ben.

This would be more of an inconsistency, not really a plot hole. A plot hole should leave a gaping hole in the plot so that the plot could not continue as it is seen in the final movie. How fast Luke learns what he learns is not a true plot hole because it doesn't disrupt the plot. In other words, how fast Luke learns, or the quality of what he learns, can be debated based on things like his aptitude or even his (dare I say it) midichlorian (sp?) count.

A better example of a plot hole can be found in Star Trek Generations when Soran fires a rocket from Veridian to the sun. Worf says he would not be able to shoot it down because he only has 8 seconds to aim his phasers. Sure enough, when Soran fires the rocket, within 8 seconds it hits the sun. So somehow, this rocket which had no warp drive capabilities traveled faster than light speed and reached the sun in 8 seconds. Knowing that a rocket cannot travel from a planet to its sun in 8 seconds without traveling faster than the speed of light should prevent the rest of the plot to unfold the way it does. That's a plot hole.

[The_Basterd]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

That's not a plot hole. He knows his condition precisely because he has short-term memory loss...and not long-term memory loss. He remembers his condition the same way he remembers everything else about himself that is long term - who he is, who his wife was, his previous job, his clients - everything before "the incident." This is explained in the movie.

How would one remember their own short-term memory condition. He should remember everything prior, but his injury should automatically start the condition alas him not knowing he has a condition at all. 50 First Dates is a truthful example.

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by The_Basterd

How would one remember their own short-term memory condition. He should remember everything prior, but his injury should automatically start the condition alas him not knowing he has a condition at all. 50 First Dates is a truthful example.

You wouldn't need to "remember" you have a condition. Once you realized you could never remember anything, wouldn't you know you have a condition? If you have a headache, do you need to remember you had a headache 15 minutes ago, or is the fact that you have a headache now good enough for you to know you have a headache?

Plus it doesn't hurt by the fact that he has tattoos all over his body and a huge pile of files and records related to his condition with him.

[Spicoli]

Book of Eli should be titled Book of Plot Holes!

[L-Rouge]

I dunno, I was always a little suspicious as to how Uncle Owen could never remember c-3P0. I suppose one protocol droid in several hundred he may have had over the years?, has that effect. fair enough wiping 3P0's memory.

[remake]

Texas Chainsaw 3D has the biggest one I've seen recently.