HDR Update for non-HDR Sony tv's?

[Bladerunner5375]

I purchased the Sony 79xbr900b late last year. It's a great TV. I really want to buy the Samsung UBD k-8500 4k blu-ray player, but I heard it's not even worth buying if you don't have a tv with HDR, because you won't notice the difference between a 4k BR and a reg blu-ray without it. That being the case, any of you tech heads think it's probable, or even possible, that Sony could provide a firmware upgrade for an older 4k TV like mine so I could enjoy the benefits of HDR? Thanks in advance.

[ray0414]

needs to have an HDR capable chip, to which the 2014 sonys do not have.

[zLin]

There is no natural way of playing a UHD on a non-HDR TV.

Unlike 3D blu-ray, which contains a 2D version, an HDR UHD doesn't contain a non-HDR UHD version.

You have to screw up a 10-bit UHD, one way or another, in order to show it on an 8-bit TV. It will be worse than not noticing differences with standard BD, if you are into extreme details.


---edit---
They may embed frame-by-frame instructions on converting HDR images to non-HDR ones, in order to minimize (but not completely eliminate) the problem...

[jibucha]

what are you talking about?

when you purchase a 4K HDR UltraHD Blu-ray disc; an HD Blu-ray disc is included

so, one disc is HD and the other disc is UltraHD

this is mandated by the Blu-ray Association

it's not helpful to confuse people with incorrect information

additionally, when Dolby Vision releases become available; they will play on 'all' displays (HD - UltraHD - included) whether HDR or not

Originally Posted by zLin

There is no natural way of playing a UHD on a non-HDR TV.

Unlike 3D blu-ray, which contains a 2D version, an HDR UHD doesn't contain a non-HDR UHD version.

You have to screw up a 10-bit UHD, one way or another, in order to show it on an 8-bit TV. It will be worse than not noticing differences with standard BD, if you are into extreme details.


---edit---
They may embed frame-by-frame instructions on converting HDR images to non-HDR ones, in order to minimize (but not completely eliminate) the problem...

[Carlos2992]

One question, I have an LG UB9500 UHD 4K TV, I think it was released in june 2014 ( I bought it on February 2015 ), it has HDCP 2.2 10 bit in one of the HDMI ports... does this mean that my TV is HDR capable ? I searched on google with no results and user´s manual says nothing about HDR but I want to be sure if it can handles it or not. Anybody can help?

[cole2kb]

Originally Posted by jibucha

what are you talking about?

when you purchase a 4K HDR UltraHD Blu-ray disc; an HD Blu-ray disc is included

so, one disc is HD and the other disc is UltraHD

this is mandated by the Blu-ray Association

it's not helpful to confuse people with incorrect information

additionally, when Dolby Vision releases become available; they will play on 'all' displays (HD - UltraHD - included) whether HDR or not

You are the one who is confused. The post you replied to stated that it does not contain two UHD discs, one HDR and one SDR. No reference to the standard 1080p Blu-rays.

[Bladerunner5375]

Guys, does anyone know if there is a huge difference with HDR? Should I not even bother buying a 4k blu-Ray player at all since my TV doesn't have HDR?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Bladerunner5375

I purchased the Sony 79xbr900b late last year. It's a great TV. I really want to buy the Samsung UBD k-8500 4k blu-ray player, but I heard it's not even worth buying if you don't have a tv with HDR, because you won't notice the difference between a 4k BR and a reg blu-ray without it. That being the case, any of you tech heads think it's probable, or even possible, that Sony could provide a firmware upgrade for an older 4k TV like mine so I could enjoy the benefits of HDR? Thanks in advance.

There is no way to update the 2014 Sonys to accept and display HDR. The horrible part about it is that the B series sets have some excellent specs, e.g. my own 55" version can produce nearly 500 nits max brightness and covers roughly 90% of DCI-P3, but due to the limitations of the internal processing it will only ever be able to accept SDR BT.709 video signals.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There is no way to update the 2014 Sonys to accept and display HDR. The horrible part about it is that the B series sets have some excellent specs, e.g. my own 55" version can produce nearly 500 nits max brightness and covers roughly 90% of DCI-P3, but due to the limitations of the internal processing it will only ever be able to accept SDR BT.709 video signals.

They also made an $8K flagship model that year with "Full Array"

If it was at all possible, I'd expect that model to somehow accept the signal. Either or, I'm enjoying watching movies without HDR.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Derb

They also made an $8K flagship model that year with "Full Array"

If it was at all possible, I'd expect that model to somehow accept the signal. Either or, I'm enjoying watching movies without HDR.

It doesn't matter how fancy the display tech is because the internal processing itself is fixed in that regard. The chips in the 2013/2014 models can only process SDR 709 signals, it wasn't until the 2015 revamp that Sony put a new chip in with the processing to match.

[rroeder]

I own a 70x850b bought it late 2014, awesome display love the bluray movies and 3d on it!

Please correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've read the new 4k players and HDR discs will play on non-HDR TV's it will just convert to SDR signal. I have also read it's still a nice bump to 4k picture even without HDR. So if this is true I plan on buying a 4k player and discs(HDR if available) once some older titles are released that I really want to see, nothing currently interests me enough to buy player.

Then a few years down the road when I'm ready I will buy an HDR display and the player and discs I've purchased will be good to go and I will get another bump in PQ

[chrisinwpg]

Originally Posted by Bladerunner5375

I purchased the Sony 79xbr900b late last year. It's a great TV. I really want to buy the Samsung UBD k-8500 4k blu-ray player, but I heard it's not even worth buying if you don't have a tv with HDR, because you won't notice the difference between a 4k BR and a reg blu-ray without it. That being the case, any of you tech heads think it's probable, or even possible, that Sony could provide a firmware upgrade for an older 4k TV like mine so I could enjoy the benefits of HDR? Thanks in advance.

Just finished watching my first UHD disc "Chappie" on my X900B (set to RGB enhanced). I noticed that in bright scenes, such as the many outdoor shots of Johannesburg, the detail is incredible. I also think that the Xtended dynamic range of this tv helps the contrast somewhat. Not sure how much better it could get with full blown HDR. I also watched the Elysium blu-ray and I must say I am very impressed with the Samsung's upscaling capabilities. I do not regret purchasing the 8500.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by chrisinwpg

Just finished watching my first UHD disc "Chappie" on my X900B (set to RGB enhanced). I noticed that in bright scenes, such as the many outdoor shots of Johannesburg, the detail is incredible. I also think that the Xtended dynamic range of this tv helps the contrast somewhat. Not sure how much better it could get with full blown HDR. I also watched the Elysium blu-ray and I must say I am very impressed with the Samsung's upscaling capabilities. I do not regret purchasing the 8500.

same dealy here. I did note that using 4:4:4 instead throws black putty all over the screen & the range of Color is "very" limited so much so it affects the viewing angle drastically.

[chrisinwpg]

Here are the settings that seem to work best for me so far when pairing the Sammy K8500 with a Sony X900B (of course these are preliminary settings as I've been only able to watch one UHD movie so far, that is, Chappie... more movies on the way):

Samsung Player:

Resolution: 2160p
Movie Frame: Auto
Hdmi Color Format: rgb (enhanced)
Hdmi Deep Color: off

Sony tv:

Picture mode: cinema 2
Backlight: 5
Picture: 87
Brightness: 58
Color: 57
Hue: 0
Color temp: warm 2
Sharpness: 50
Noise, Dot and reality creation: off
Motionflow: Surprisingly I enjoyed this set to True Cinema. Doesn't give the picture the dreaded "soap opera effect".
Cinemotion: auto
Advanced contrast enhancer: medium
LED Dynamic control: standard
Live color: low

I would be interested in hearing from others with their preferred settings. Always trying to bring the picture quality up a notch.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by chrisinwpg

Here are the settings that seem to work best for me so far when pairing the Sammy K8500 with a Sony X900B (of course these are preliminary settings as I've been only able to watch one UHD movie so far, that is, Chappie... more movies on the way):

Samsung Player:

Resolution: 2160p
Movie Frame: Auto
Hdmi Color Format: rgb (enhanced)
Hdmi Deep Color: off

Sony tv:

Picture mode: cinema 2
Backlight: 5
Picture: 87
Brightness: 58
Color: 57
Hue: 0
Color temp: warm 2
Sharpness: 50
Noise, Dot and reality creation: off
Motionflow: Surprisingly I enjoyed this set to True Cinema. Doesn't give the picture the dreaded "soap opera effect".
Cinemotion: auto
Advanced contrast enhancer: medium
LED Dynamic control: standard
Live color: low

I would be interested in hearing from others with their preferred settings. Always trying to bring the picture quality up a notch.

Yep, very true. Some are not too bad but True Cinema Is where I'm at.

Custom 4K/3D

Scene Select - Cinema 1
Backlight - 5
Picture - 76
Brightness - 48
Colour - 54
Hue - 0
Colour Temp. - Warm 2
Sharpness - 62
Noise Reduction - Off
MPEG Noise - Off
Dot Noise - Off
Reality Creation - Manual
Resolution - 65
Noise Filtering - Min
Smooth Gradation - Off
Motion flow - True Cinema
CineMotion - Auto
Black Corrector - Medium
Advanced Contrast Enhancer - High
Gamma - 0
LED Dynamic Control - Standard
Auto Light Dimmer - Off
Clear White - Off
Live Colour - Off
Detail Enhancer - High
Edge Enhancer - Off
Skin Naturalizer - Off
Display Speed - Off

White Balance - = Minus
RG -8
GG -10
BG -2
RB -7
GB -3
BB -2

Power Saving - Low
Light Sensor - Off

[Geoff D]

True Cinema doesn't actually do anything to a 24p image at all. It's designed to reconstruct 24p cadence from film sources encoded as 60i, e.g. NTSC DVD, older 1080i60 Blu-rays, 60Hz TV broadcasts and suchlike.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

True Cinema doesn't actually do anything to a 24p image at all. It's designed to reconstruct 24p cadence from film sources encoded as 60i, e.g. NTSC DVD, older 1080i60 Blu-rays, 60Hz TV broadcasts and suchlike.

Yep, its here to save us from broadcast TV

[Derb]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Yep, its here to save us from broadcast TV

Ah ok so the other options in Motionflow are there to not save us from Broascast then.

[Bladerunner5375]

Originally Posted by Derb

Yep, very true. Some are not too bad but True Cinema Is where I'm at.

Custom 4K/3D

Scene Select - Cinema 1
Backlight - 5
Picture - 76
Brightness - 48
Colour - 54
Hue - 0
Colour Temp. - Warm 2
Sharpness - 62
Noise Reduction - Off
MPEG Noise - Off
Dot Noise - Off
Reality Creation - Manual
Resolution - 65
Noise Filtering - Min
Smooth Gradation - Off
Motion flow - True Cinema
CineMotion - Auto
Black Corrector - Medium
Advanced Contrast Enhancer - High
Gamma - 0
LED Dynamic Control - Standard
Auto Light Dimmer - Off
Clear White - Off
Live Colour - Off
Detail Enhancer - High
Edge Enhancer - Off
Skin Naturalizer - Off
Display Speed - Off

White Balance - = Minus
RG -8
GG -10
BG -2
RB -7
GB -3
BB -2

Power Saving - Low
Light Sensor - Off

What HDMI input do you use? Is it true only HDMI 2 and HDMI 4 on the Sony are 4k compatible? I have a roku 4 plugged in via hdmi 2. Should I plug the Sammy K8500 via input hdmi 4? Thx!

[Geoff D]

I heard it was HDMI 1 and 2 which were HDCP 2.2 on my 2014 Sony, the tech teardown on the hdfever review (for the 55 or 65X9005B) indicated as such. Still, it's definitely got some 2.2 sockets and that's the main thing.