Cheap 4K HDR T.V. sets with 8 bit panels. How they resolve HDR and WCG? - Blu-ray Forum

eddievanhalen · 01-22-2017, 11:45 PM

I've seen plenty of cheap (or reasonable priced) 4K HDR T.V. sets lately, mainly from Samsung and LG. All those T.V.'s have 8 bit panels. How those sets with 8 bit panels resolve HDR? Are there any real improvement over a 4K non-HDR set or the improvement is just subtle?
What about Wide Color Gamut? I understand that in order to play WCG the set must have a 10 bit panel as 4K HDR video bit depth is 10, which is what gets WCG. How those cheap HDR T.V. set perform WCG, if they even do it. Maybe they downrez video signal to 8 bit adding dither to get a better result.
Thanks in advance for your input.

elwaylite · 01-23-2017, 01:38 AM

Not sure on your entire question, but many sets in the beginning used 8 bit dither to achieve 10 bits, and passed 10bit test patterns so you could not tell a difference there.

Robert Zohn · 01-23-2017, 01:58 AM

Most don't ^ believe what you said, as we are in the world of nitpickers and purists, but that is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Now if we want to extrapolate from this how a 12-bit Dolby Vision HDR image would perform rendered on a 10-bit panel, we can assume it may not be quite as near perfect as 8-bit to 10-bit HDR10 and HLG up-conversion. Of course we're considering your TV has a good onboard TV processor; then in that case a 12-bit DV HDR signal would be near perfect on a 10-Bit display with a properly set-up EOTF.

eddievanhalen · 01-23-2017, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Most don't ^ believe what you said, as we are in the world of nitpickers and purists, but that is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Now if we want to extrapolate from this how a 12-bit Dolby Vision HDR image would perform rendered on a 10-bit panel, we can assume it may not be quite as near perfect as 8-bit to 10-bit HDR10 and HLG up-conversion. Of course we're considering your TV has a good onboard TV processor; then in that case a 12-bit DV HDR signal would be near perfect on a 10-Bit display with a properly set-up EOTF.

Sorry for my ignorance, my knowledge of English languaje is limited as I'm Spanish. What is EOTF?

elwaylite · 01-23-2017, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddievanhalen

Sorry for my ignorance, my knowledge of English languaje is limited as I'm Spanish. What is EOTF?

http://files.spectracal.com/Document...emystified.pdf

eddievanhalen · 01-23-2017, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elwaylite

http://files.spectracal.com/Document...emystified.pdf

Thank you! I'll give it a good read later.

elwaylite · 01-23-2017, 02:02 AM

I went almost full circle. There was ignorant bliss, then there was the quest for perfection, and then I realized there was no such a thing. You ending up making an entertainment experience unpleasant if you obsess over everything. I mean, when you turn it on and watch a blu-ray does it looks good? If so, who cares? I just find a good display now, research it, buy it, calibrate it, and move on.

Buy a nice display that fits your budget, maybe have it calibrated, and enjoy your movies. Bout the best advice I can give.

elwaylite · 01-23-2017, 02:05 PM

Kinda long, but good info.

Robert Zohn · 01-23-2017, 02:53 PM

EOTF is the new "Gamma" that is in the new HDR spec. EOTF stand for Electro Optical Transfer Function and decodes the original camera's OETF, Optical Electrical Transfer Function, which is the transfer of the optical lightwaves to electrical data values.

Gamma is based on the CRT's analog curve that represents how a display moves from its lowest luminance to peak brightness.

01-22-2017, 11:45 PM	#1
eddievanhalen Blu-ray Guru Member since:Mar 2008 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:9	Cheap 4K HDR T.V. sets with 8 bit panels. How they resolve HDR and WCG? I've seen plenty of cheap (or reasonable priced) 4K HDR T.V. sets lately, mainly from Samsung and LG. All those T.V.'s have 8 bit panels. How those sets with 8 bit panels resolve HDR? Are there any real improvement over a 4K non-HDR set or the improvement is just subtle? What about Wide Color Gamut? I understand that in order to play WCG the set must have a 10 bit panel as 4K HDR video bit depth is 10, which is what gets WCG. How those cheap HDR T.V. set perform WCG, if they even do it. Maybe they downrez video signal to 8 bit adding dither to get a better result. Thanks in advance for your input.

01-23-2017, 01:58 AM	#3
Robert Zohn Retailer Insider Member since:Nov 2009 Location:Scarsdale, NY Trading Score:2	Most don't ^ believe what you said, as we are in the world of nitpickers and purists, but that is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Now if we want to extrapolate from this how a 12-bit Dolby Vision HDR image would perform rendered on a 10-bit panel, we can assume it may not be quite as near perfect as 8-bit to 10-bit HDR10 and HLG up-conversion. Of course we're considering your TV has a good onboard TV processor; then in that case a 12-bit DV HDR signal would be near perfect on a 10-Bit display with a properly set-up EOTF. Last edited by Robert Zohn; 01-23-2017 at 02:11 AM.

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01-23-2017, 01:38 AM	#2
elwaylite Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Mar 2007	Not sure on your entire question, but many sets in the beginning used 8 bit dither to achieve 10 bits, and passed 10bit test patterns so you could not tell a difference there.

01-23-2017, 02:02 AM	#7
elwaylite Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Mar 2007	I went almost full circle. There was ignorant bliss, then there was the quest for perfection, and then I realized there was no such a thing. You ending up making an entertainment experience unpleasant if you obsess over everything. I mean, when you turn it on and watch a blu-ray does it looks good? If so, who cares? I just find a good display now, research it, buy it, calibrate it, and move on. Buy a nice display that fits your budget, maybe have it calibrated, and enjoy your movies. Bout the best advice I can give.

01-23-2017, 02:05 PM	#8
elwaylite Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Mar 2007	Kinda long, but good info.

01-23-2017, 02:53 PM	#9
Robert Zohn Retailer Insider Member since:Nov 2009 Location:Scarsdale, NY Trading Score:2	EOTF is the new "Gamma" that is in the new HDR spec. EOTF stand for Electro Optical Transfer Function and decodes the original camera's OETF, Optical Electrical Transfer Function, which is the transfer of the optical lightwaves to electrical data values. Gamma is based on the CRT's analog curve that represents how a display moves from its lowest luminance to peak brightness.

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