subwoofer kicking off and on during dialogue

[RedZeppelin]

Hello. I recently had to purchase a new subwoofer for my home theater system. I purchased a Paradigm Defiance V10, and I'm running it from an old Yamaha RX-V373 5.1 receiver.

I didn't do any assisted calibration; I just set it to what sounds good, and it sounds fantastic.

However, during dialogue in films and TV shows, I can hear the sub kick in in the middle of a sentence, like it dropped out briefly and something finally re-engaged it. I usually don't even notice when it disappears, because it never drops out during loud scenes or scenes with constant bass. But suddenly in mid-sentence I'll hear the nice bass floor reappear, letting me know it was off for a time.

I did some research and saw frequent suggestions to change all my other speakers to small in my AV setup, which I did. That seemed to help a little but the problem is still there.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

[Energy Crisis]

Originally Posted by RedZeppelin

Hello. I recently had to purchase a new subwoofer for my home theater system. I purchased a Paradigm Defiance V10, and I'm running it from an old Yamaha RX-V373 5.1 receiver.

I didn't do any assisted calibration; I just set it to what sounds good, and it sounds fantastic.

However, during dialogue in films and TV shows, I can hear the sub kick in in the middle of a sentence, like it dropped out briefly and something finally re-engaged it. I usually don't even notice when it disappears, because it never drops out during loud scenes or scenes with constant bass. But suddenly in mid-sentence I'll hear the nice bass floor reappear, letting me know it was off for a time.

I did some research and saw frequent suggestions to change all my other speakers to small in my AV setup, which I did. That seemed to help a little but the problem is still there.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

The likely problem is your sub's gain is turned up too loud and the trim from the receiver is set too low. Hence you aren't getting enough signal to keep the subwoofer auto on/off from shutting off. You really need to run the calibration feature and see where it sets everything. If you're still having trouble and you can't boost the sub trim without it being too hot (you don't want to go over 0), you can try lowering the trim on all your other speakers a bit. That way you can run the master volume higher than you are now while keeping the sub trim in the safe area.

[RedZeppelin]

Thanks. I re-ran the auto-setup feature using the mic that came with the receiver, and it gave me some weird settings. It put all speakers at 0 save for the left rear and sub. It put those at -3 and -9 respectively! With those settings my sub wasn't even audible.

I went back to my original settings, which had the center at +.5 (for louder dialogue) and the rears at +1 (because I really like to hear the surround effects). I originally had the sub at 0 as well, with the volume on the sub itself turned up quite high. I bumped the sub to +3 on the receiver and backed off the volume three ticks on the sub itself.

I'll test that for a while.

[slimdude]

Most subwoofers activates whenever it detects a LFE audio signal in the soundtrack, otherwise the speaker remains silent.

[Scarriere]

Turn the level on the back of the sub to Max and rerun YPAO.
Use your avr to control the output. I find with Yamaha, I have to run the subs +3 a lot of the time.

[Energy Crisis]

Originally Posted by RedZeppelin

Thanks. I re-ran the auto-setup feature using the mic that came with the receiver, and it gave me some weird settings. It put all speakers at 0 save for the left rear and sub. It put those at -3 and -9 respectively! With those settings my sub wasn't even audible.

I went back to my original settings, which had the center at +.5 (for louder dialogue) and the rears at +1 (because I really like to hear the surround effects). I originally had the sub at 0 as well, with the volume on the sub itself turned up quite high. I bumped the sub to +3 on the receiver and backed off the volume three ticks on the sub itself.

I'll test that for a while.

+3 on the sub is too hot and you can run into clipping. You don't want that. I would lower the trim by 6 on everything (i.e., center -1, sub -3, etc), then raise the master volume on the receiver. Everything will still be balanced the same as it is now but the sub will be in the safe zone. You never want to go over 0 on your sub trim. Negative numbers are best.

What is your crossover set to? 80 is a good place to start but moving it to 100 will help keep the sub from shutting off.

[RedZeppelin]

The crossover is set to 120, which is the default on the Yamaha.

[RedZeppelin]

Originally Posted by slimdude

Most subwoofers activates whenever it detects a LFE audio signal in the soundtrack, otherwise the speaker remains silent.

Right. I'm just confused why it happens frequently in the middle of a sentence of dialogue.

[Energy Crisis]

Here's a very long, in depth post that should be of use to you. Among other things, it specifically addresses the issue with Yamaha receivers you're experiencing and offers several remedies to try.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/gui...ences.2958528/

[Scarriere]

I also have a Defiance sub and the app is pretty slick.
Maybe ARC would help you out?
I don’t know how much the microphone is, mine came with the sub.
You may wanna look into it. Just a suggestion.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by RedZeppelin

The crossover is set to 120, which is the default on the Yamaha.

What kind of speakers are you using? If they're capable of 80hz, set the crossover to 80hz for the front channels. You generally don't want dialogue going to the subwoofer, which is why it's good to have, at the very least, a good center speaker capable of clean 80hz or lower.

[RedZeppelin]

I've run YPAO several times with the mic at ear-level at my primary seating position, and it gives me slightly different results each times. In all cases it drops the sub so far as to make it inaudible. It also sets some other levels that seem very odd, heavily favoring one surround speaker over another despite being close in distance. And it keeps setting my surround speakers to Large, even though they're the same model as my front speakers, which it sets to Small.

With the exception of the sub level I decided to trust the settings and see how it goes for a while.

Originally Posted by Scarriere

I also have a Defiance sub and the app is pretty slick.
Maybe ARC would help you out?
I don’t know how much the microphone is, mine came with the sub.
You may wanna look into it. Just a suggestion.

I used the ARC app on my phone when I first set up the sub. I'm sure it isn't as accurate as a good mic, but the sub sounds darn good to me overall.

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

What kind of speakers are you using? If they're capable of 80hz, set the crossover to 80hz for the front channels. You generally don't want dialogue going to the subwoofer, which is why it's good to have, at the very least, a good center speaker capable of clean 80hz or lower.

My speakers are all Boston Acoustics. The front and surrounds are CR8, and my center is CR2.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by RedZeppelin

I've run YPAO several times with the mic at ear-level at my primary seating position, and it gives me slightly different results each times. In all cases it drops the sub so far as to make it inaudible. It also sets some other levels that seem very odd, heavily favoring one surround speaker over another despite being close in distance. And it keeps setting my surround speakers to Large, even though they're the same model as my front speakers, which it sets to Small.

With the exception of the sub level I decided to trust the settings and see how it goes for a while.



I used the ARC app on my phone when I first set up the sub. I'm sure it isn't as accurate as a good mic, but the sub sounds darn good to me overall.



My speakers are all Boston Acoustics. The front and surrounds are CR8, and my center is CR2.

Switch the crossover to 80hz in the receiver. The CR8 goes down to 48hz and the CR2 goes down to 80hz, so you should be fine. At the very least set the crossover for the center to 100hz. That should help.

[gotmule]

CreasyBear is definitely right, but I would also ditch the results from YPAO as your ears and a decent sound level meter are going to be way more accurate than the inexpensive microphone the receiver came with. Start with running test tones setting levels using a sound level meter, but do the final tweaking by listening to your system while watching something with heavy surround activity. Make sure that the rears are balanced to the fronts. Once again, trust your ears. You can find meters all over Amazon for not a lot of money.

The other thing I would do if you are still noticing the sub turning on while watching is that I would use the manual on switch, as I believe your Paradigm has that option. Sure, you have to remember to turn it off and on, but it would eliminate the distraction of wondering about the sub and paying attention to the times it does turn on in the middle of a sentence.

[RedZeppelin]

Originally Posted by gotmule

CreasyBear is definitely right, but I would also ditch the results from YPAO as your ears and a decent sound level meter are going to be way more accurate than the inexpensive microphone the receiver came with...

I might invest in a meter. In the meantime, do you think the mic on an iPhone would be better than the mic bundled with the receiver? I've thought about trying an app for testing.

[RedZeppelin]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Switch the crossover to 80hz in the receiver. The CR8 goes down to 48hz and the CR2 goes down to 80hz, so you should be fine. At the very least set the crossover for the center to 100hz. That should help.

I don't see the option to change crossover settings for any speaker other than the sub in my receiver options, but I changed that to 100. Thanks!

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by RedZeppelin

I might invest in a meter. In the meantime, do you think the mic on an iPhone would be better than the mic bundled with the receiver? I've thought about trying an app for testing.

Usually not recommended as results vary depending on your phone.

https://pulsarinstruments.com/en/pos...ound-meter-app

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by RedZeppelin

I don't see the option to change crossover settings for any speaker other than the sub in my receiver options, but I changed that to 100. Thanks!

I think some Yamaha's don't allow variable crossovers, so that could be the reason. I would put it at 80hz since your speakers seem capable enough.

[RedZeppelin]

Thank you all for all the help and great suggestions. My simple question led me down a rabbit hole of sound and equipment research, and a total recalibration of all my speakers, not just my sub.

I downloaded the Decibel X app for my iPhone just to do some testing. I knew it wouldn't be very accurate, but I was looking for averages for each speaker, not exact numbers.

The funny thing is, those averages came very close to mirroring the level differences that YPAO indicated. So, I ran YPAO again, reset all my speakers to Small, set my crossover to 80, then bumped up the sub a couple of notches on the receiver and down a couple of notches on the sub to try to keep constant gain going to it.

I watched a movie today and didn't notice the sub kick in and out at all. Of course it may have been the movie audio itself, so it's too early to tell, but I'm hoping all those little changes did the trick.

One thing I found really interesting was YPAO dialed my center down to -2.0, while I originally had it at +1, and dialogue in the movie I watched sounded better than ever.

Thanks again, all!

[CreasyBear]

In general you don't want to go above 0db on any of the speakers.