The Garden of Words (re-release) - Dec 08, 2020 - Blu-ray Forum

svenge · 10-03-2020, 04:35 AM

It should be a new disc, as according to the rear cover art it includes Spanish audio and subtitles where were lacking on the original release. Hopefully Sentai will take the opportunity to improve the video encode like they did with their 2016 re-release of Children Who Chase Lost Voices...

BigOnAnime · 10-03-2020, 05:07 AM

Pretty much all of Sentai's re-releases over the last few years have had brand new discs, it's rare for them to re-use discs. They also will redo the credits, resulting in changes to the people credited for each position. Maiden Japan re-releases have also had new discs, but some re-used the credits from the original releases (Ex: Den-noh Coil, Royal Space Force). You can still tell they're new discs from the new ads and the Disc Credits section which they brought back in November 2018 (it was last seen in late 2014).

This should have improvements from the size of the subs, tweaking them to remove typos and errors, and the video quality. The old disc was authored by David Williams who authored most of Sentai's most problematic discs (Ex: Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere, Colorful: The Motion Picture, Penguindrum, Kids on the Slope, all of these, and did I mention nearly every static BD menu had compression artifacts?). Once Joel McCray took over sometime in 2014, things improved quite a bit. He's done pretty much every release since, though as of the past few months, all Sentai releases are now authored by him and Ryan Anthony.

[Show spoiler]

tl;dr Pick up the re-release for anything that was previously authored by DLW, that includes this.

BlackDevil · 10-03-2020, 02:17 PM

Still hope the steelbook release comes out some day

professorwho · 10-04-2020, 06:58 AM

Well, Sentai is being stupid like they have been, and are losslessly encoding the commentaries, as well as the Spanish dub. I can see having the Spanish dub being lossless, I doubt many would listen to it, but for Spanish speakers, it's nice, but I take issue with the commentaries being in lossless DTS-HD MA 2.0 which is a waste. Have it be lossy audio, either in Dolby Digital or even lossy DTS. A bitrate of 192, 224, 256 or 320 kbps is much better than the 2 mbps they'll encode this. Plus, when Sentai does do lossless stereo, they still do it badly, with a 1.5 mbps DTS core when I can assure you, it does not need to have a minimum of 1.5 mbps at ALL times. I mean, they end up being around 2.1 or 2.2 mbps in most cases as an average, so why not just do LPCM 2.0 in the end? Honestly, there's zero reason not to use LPCM if the audio is in mono or stereo.

So, Sentai encodes a 5.1 track at 24-bit at around 4.5 mbps, so let's add 2 together (JP+ENG) and that's at 9 mbps of an allotted 48, and, and oh no, we've eaten into the 40 mbps allowed for video, but only by 1 mbps, so it's not a big deal whatsoever, but if we add in another 4.5 mbps, that makes the new total 13.5 mbps, so now we're up to a total possible video bitrate of 34.5 mbps, but they're being stupid and losslessly encoding f**king commentaries, so add in another 4 mbps, and we get 30.5 mbps as a max video rate, which is pathetic as a max bitrate, but, seeing as Sentai barely optimize their discs at all (their bitrates are piss poor and barely spike at all into the 30s), I guess it's okay? So, I'm willing to bet that the overall video bitrate will only be slightly higher than the older release. Though, bitrate means jack sh*t if the settings are bad, and I believe they'll be good this time, so there's hope.

But, in short, if you want the best release, get either the JP BD with a maxed out LPCM 5.1 audio mix, or the Italian Dynit release with the highest video bitrate out there... or both, and leave Sentai behind... the JP BD has English subs, so just get that. (I remember sampling the English dub, and oh boy was it terrible like pretty much all Sentai and modern dubs are)

BigOnAnime · 10-04-2020, 07:06 AM

I've not watched the movie yet, but that dub was from that time period Sentai had a reputation for having not very many good dubs, to the point it was brought up on ANNCast before or something. A large number of them were done by Steven Foster who likely suffered from burnout, and ultimately retired from the industry in 2014. Though he explained he didn't care for the phoenix that rose from ADV's ashes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Foster

Ha-ha. I’d love to say follow my passion but it was more like a survival tactic. More than anything though it was time to go. Maybe one day I’ll talk in more detail about it. But it’s pretty personal and a little raw. And I’m about to bare enough of my soul with this new venture. I was never a Tweeter or Instagrammer. I’m not a big public speaker. Well, looks like I’m about to be. All of that and more. And you know what? That’s okay. This is my path. ADV/Seraphim have theirs. Am I happy they phoenixed? Of course. I just didn’t care much for the bird that emerged from the fire.

https://www.animeherald.com/2014/09/...ntai-filmworks

Herry Dunston · 10-04-2020, 03:33 PM

"Steven Foster". Now that's a cancer cell that was out of my body for a while. He retired that long ago?

I'd say good riddance, but I haven't heard any new Sentai dubs for many years to judge any performance gains. Well, except for maybe that dub for the Chunnibyou anime, but that was maybe a one-or-two episode browse. Have no real impression on 'em, other than "Brittany Karbowski really can't hit those high notes".

svenge · 12-31-2020, 02:18 PM

Anyone pick up the re-release to see if the video got fixed or not?

jala12 · 12-31-2020, 04:00 PM

I am interested in knowing if this got a noticeable fix as well, video-wise.

CrimsonCobalt · 01-05-2021, 01:19 AM

I am also interested in if it got fixed or not.

BigOnAnime · 02-24-2021, 05:03 AM

Some stuff on The Garden of Words' re-release. No comparison from me because I don't know yet how to do it (also, ripping discs isn't ideal right now as I'm having issues with my laptop-I can't read/write to my internal HDD, I can only use external or else my laptop freezes up, and I have to hold down the power button, even when attempting to shutdown or restart). Full English staff changes can be seen on the ANN page.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoid9000

I think we tweaked a couple lines in the Japanese commentary and I translated one missing caption from the film itself (also in the storyboard extra). Not a whole lot, but an improvement over the previous release. We try to perfect it as much as possible each time!

https://twitter.com/zoid9000/status/1364440765368131586

He was the supervising translator on this release. Also the subs aren't hilariously huge anymore.

HipsterTrash · 03-19-2021, 11:56 AM

Hopefully Sentai re-release Children Who Chase Lost Voices.

BigOnAnime · 03-19-2021, 12:50 PM

I wouldn't count on it given the license expired almost 2 years ago. They either were unable to renew the rights because they were blocked, or they didn't find it financially viable to renew it. The Sentai Selects re-release was already an improvement over the old release by putting the extras on their own separate disc to make more room, and making the subtitles smaller.

NLScavenger · 03-19-2021, 01:05 PM

The Anime Limited UK port of the Sentai Selects BD is region free.

AreaFive · 03-19-2021, 01:45 PM

I wasn't even aware the previous release had video issues. I would also be interested in a comparison.

CrimsonCobalt · 03-27-2021, 12:33 PM

Which version of the bluray is region-free? The UK port?

MrPlatinum · 04-14-2021, 03:22 AM

Really like the presentation on the new BD; recently read the LN, which is filled with enough content to have made TGoW into a 2-hour film, and watched it twice in a row afterward thanks to its short length (once subbed and then again right after with the commentary). Really interesting how many "questions" in the commentary were basically answered by the LN. Though I wish we got the CD from the Japanese version and a slipcover like that version, since Sentai at least appeared to start selectively using them on some of their releases. Still undecided on whether to import the Japanese version too for the CD and slip, or whether to forget the CD and print my own Sentai-themed slip.

BigOnAnime · 04-14-2021, 03:56 AM

Sentai mainly does slipcovers for certain SteelBooks and anything that required multiple cases. Maybe it would have gotten one if the SteelBook hadn't gotten cancelled.

Sentai/Section23 non-SteelBook releases with slipcovers:
-Devil Survivor 2: The Animation
-Hayate the Combat Butler! Ultimate Collection (2 thick cases)
-Mardock Scramble Trilogy
-Ninja Scroll (2015 release)
-Orphen 2009 DVD (2 stackpak cases)
-Patlabor (Maiden Japan 2020 release with 2 thick cases)
-Saiyuki (AEsir Media 2013 release, 2 stackpak cases)
-Short Peace (slipcover is wrongly sized (I fixed that by giving my copy a red Vortex case which is slightly thicker), hence the (bad) decision to put 2 stickers to keep things in place)
-Why the Hell Are You Here Teacher?!
-World Trigger (2 thick cases)

Historically they've rarely done slipcovers going back to the ADV days, like one of the only ADV releases with them that comes to mind are the singles for Le Chevalier D'Eon. Then there were the 2009 re-releases of Full Metal Panic! S1/Fumoffu, Kiba, RahXephon, and Saiyuki. The Platinum singles for Neon Genesis Evangelion also got slipboxes.

svenge · 07-07-2021, 11:14 PM

Note: The "commentary version" uses a different playlist (and has a ~3 minute shorter length due to the tacked-on English credits not being used) which is why only the three DTS-HD MA 5.1 audio tracks are listed on this readout.

Code:

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     Garden of Words 2020 BD-1
Disc Size:      49,096,226,816 bytes
Protection:     AACS(v76)
BDInfo:         0.7.5.9 (compatible layout created by DVDFab 12.0.1.8)

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00004.MPLS  
Length:                 0:48:17.519 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   12,736,358,400 bytes
Total Bitrate:          35.16 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        21787 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         3916 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 3916 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS-HD Master Audio             Spanish         3931 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 3931 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS-HD Master Audio             Japanese        3870 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 3870 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         6.835 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         1.469 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           English         34.198 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         31.236 kbps

professorwho · 07-08-2021, 03:06 AM

And the film still has a piss-poor bitrate due to multiple lossless tracks (I’d bet money the commentaries are lossless, which is unnecessary and eats up tons of bitrate) and them being poor at bitrate optimization. Still, it should be better than their last effort, even if it’s not optimal.

svenge · 07-08-2021, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by professorwho

And the film still has a piss-poor bitrate due to multiple lossless tracks (I’d bet money the commentaries are lossless, which is unnecessary and eats up tons of bitrate) and them being poor at bitrate optimization. Still, it should be better than their last effort, even if it’s not optimal.

You are correct regarding the commentaries being lossless, as they're DTS-HD MA 2.0 @ 24-bit for some insane reason.

10-03-2020, 04:35 AM	#1
svenge Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Nov 2009 Location:Washington State 4K collection:17 Blu-ray collection:474 DVD collection:157 Blu-ray reviews: 5 Trading Score:67	The Garden of Words (re-release) - Dec 08, 2020 It should be a new disc, as according to the rear cover art it includes Spanish audio and subtitles where were lacking on the original release. Hopefully Sentai will take the opportunity to improve the video encode like they did with their 2016 re-release of Children Who Chase Lost Voices...

10-03-2020, 05:07 AM	#2
BigOnAnime Blu-ray Knight Top contributor Member since:Mar 2015 Location:Minnesota, USA 4K collection:17 Blu-ray collection:671 DVD collection:714	Pretty much all of Sentai's re-releases over the last few years have had brand new discs, it's rare for them to re-use discs. They also will redo the credits, resulting in changes to the people credited for each position. Maiden Japan re-releases have also had new discs, but some re-used the credits from the original releases (Ex: Den-noh Coil, Royal Space Force). You can still tell they're new discs from the new ads and the Disc Credits section which they brought back in November 2018 (it was last seen in late 2014). This should have improvements from the size of the subs, tweaking them to remove typos and errors, and the video quality. The old disc was authored by David Williams who authored most of Sentai's most problematic discs (Ex: Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere, Colorful: The Motion Picture, Penguindrum, Kids on the Slope, all of these, and did I mention nearly every static BD menu had compression artifacts?). Once Joel McCray took over sometime in 2014, things improved quite a bit. He's done pretty much every release since, though as of the past few months, all Sentai releases are now authored by him and Ryan Anthony. [Show spoiler] tl;dr Pick up the re-release for anything that was previously authored by DLW, that includes this. Last edited by BigOnAnime; 10-03-2020 at 05:29 AM.

04-14-2021, 03:56 AM	#17
BigOnAnime Blu-ray Knight Top contributor Member since:Mar 2015 Location:Minnesota, USA 4K collection:17 Blu-ray collection:671 DVD collection:714	Sentai mainly does slipcovers for certain SteelBooks and anything that required multiple cases. Maybe it would have gotten one if the SteelBook hadn't gotten cancelled. Sentai/Section23 non-SteelBook releases with slipcovers: -Devil Survivor 2: The Animation -Hayate the Combat Butler! Ultimate Collection (2 thick cases) -Mardock Scramble Trilogy -Ninja Scroll (2015 release) -Orphen 2009 DVD (2 stackpak cases) -Patlabor (Maiden Japan 2020 release with 2 thick cases) -Saiyuki (AEsir Media 2013 release, 2 stackpak cases) -Short Peace (slipcover is wrongly sized (I fixed that by giving my copy a red Vortex case which is slightly thicker), hence the (bad) decision to put 2 stickers to keep things in place) -Why the Hell Are You Here Teacher?! -World Trigger (2 thick cases) Historically they've rarely done slipcovers going back to the ADV days, like one of the only ADV releases with them that comes to mind are the singles for Le Chevalier D'Eon. Then there were the 2009 re-releases of Full Metal Panic! S1/Fumoffu, Kiba, RahXephon, and Saiyuki. The Platinum singles for Neon Genesis Evangelion also got slipboxes. Last edited by BigOnAnime; 04-14-2021 at 04:02 AM.

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10-03-2020, 02:17 PM	#3
BlackDevil Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Blu-ray collection:5 Trading Score:3	Still hope the steelbook release comes out some day

10-04-2020, 06:58 AM	#4
professorwho Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Apr 2017 4K collection:229 Blu-ray collection:982 Blu-ray reviews: 64 Trading Score:7	Well, Sentai is being stupid like they have been, and are losslessly encoding the commentaries, as well as the Spanish dub. I can see having the Spanish dub being lossless, I doubt many would listen to it, but for Spanish speakers, it's nice, but I take issue with the commentaries being in lossless DTS-HD MA 2.0 which is a waste. Have it be lossy audio, either in Dolby Digital or even lossy DTS. A bitrate of 192, 224, 256 or 320 kbps is much better than the 2 mbps they'll encode this. Plus, when Sentai does do lossless stereo, they still do it badly, with a 1.5 mbps DTS core when I can assure you, it does not need to have a minimum of 1.5 mbps at ALL times. I mean, they end up being around 2.1 or 2.2 mbps in most cases as an average, so why not just do LPCM 2.0 in the end? Honestly, there's zero reason not to use LPCM if the audio is in mono or stereo. So, Sentai encodes a 5.1 track at 24-bit at around 4.5 mbps, so let's add 2 together (JP+ENG) and that's at 9 mbps of an allotted 48, and, and oh no, we've eaten into the 40 mbps allowed for video, but only by 1 mbps, so it's not a big deal whatsoever, but if we add in another 4.5 mbps, that makes the new total 13.5 mbps, so now we're up to a total possible video bitrate of 34.5 mbps, but they're being stupid and losslessly encoding f*king commentaries, so add in another 4 mbps, and we get 30.5 mbps as a max video rate, which is pathetic as a max bitrate, but, seeing as Sentai barely optimize their discs at all (their bitrates are piss poor and barely spike at all into the 30s), I guess it's okay? So, I'm willing to bet that the overall video bitrate will only be slightly higher than the older release. Though, bitrate means jack sht if the settings are bad, and I believe they'll be good this time, so there's hope. But, in short, if you want the best release, get either the JP BD with a maxed out LPCM 5.1 audio mix, or the Italian Dynit release with the highest video bitrate out there... or both, and leave Sentai behind... the JP BD has English subs, so just get that. (I remember sampling the English dub, and oh boy was it terrible like pretty much all Sentai and modern dubs are)

10-04-2020, 03:33 PM	#6
Herry Dunston Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Apr 2011 Location:The hurricane state 4K collection:30 Blu-ray collection:296 DVD collection:79 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:39	"Steven Foster". Now that's a cancer cell that was out of my body for a while. He retired that long ago? I'd say good riddance, but I haven't heard any new Sentai dubs for many years to judge any performance gains. Well, except for maybe that dub for the Chunnibyou anime, but that was maybe a one-or-two episode browse. Have no real impression on 'em, other than "Brittany Karbowski really can't hit those high notes".

12-31-2020, 02:18 PM	#7
svenge Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Nov 2009 Location:Washington State 4K collection:17 Blu-ray collection:474 DVD collection:157 Blu-ray reviews: 5 Trading Score:67	Anyone pick up the re-release to see if the video got fixed or not?

12-31-2020, 04:00 PM	#8
jala12 Special Member Member since:Apr 2011	I am interested in knowing if this got a noticeable fix as well, video-wise.

01-05-2021, 01:19 AM	#9
CrimsonCobalt Junior Member Member since:Sep 2020 Trading Score:1	I am also interested in if it got fixed or not.

03-19-2021, 11:56 AM	#11
HipsterTrash Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Mar 2019 Location:Canada 4K collection:20 Blu-ray collection:2994	Hopefully Sentai re-release Children Who Chase Lost Voices.

03-19-2021, 12:50 PM	#12
BigOnAnime Blu-ray Knight Top contributor Member since:Mar 2015 Location:Minnesota, USA 4K collection:17 Blu-ray collection:671 DVD collection:714	I wouldn't count on it given the license expired almost 2 years ago. They either were unable to renew the rights because they were blocked, or they didn't find it financially viable to renew it. The Sentai Selects re-release was already an improvement over the old release by putting the extras on their own separate disc to make more room, and making the subtitles smaller.

03-19-2021, 01:05 PM	#13
NLScavenger Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Dec 2013 Location:Netherlands 4K collection:22 Blu-ray collection:833 Trading Score:9	The Anime Limited UK port of the Sentai Selects BD is region free.

03-19-2021, 01:45 PM	#14
AreaFive Blu-ray Samurai Member since:May 2020 Location:Florida 4K collection:243 Blu-ray collection:1132 DVD collection:57 Digital collection:3 Blu-ray reviews: 4	I wasn't even aware the previous release had video issues. I would also be interested in a comparison.

03-27-2021, 12:33 PM	#15
CrimsonCobalt Junior Member Member since:Sep 2020 Trading Score:1	Which version of the bluray is region-free? The UK port?

04-14-2021, 03:22 AM	#16
MrPlatinum Active Member Top contributor Member since:Apr 2021 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:-	Really like the presentation on the new BD; recently read the LN, which is filled with enough content to have made TGoW into a 2-hour film, and watched it twice in a row afterward thanks to its short length (once subbed and then again right after with the commentary). Really interesting how many "questions" in the commentary were basically answered by the LN. Though I wish we got the CD from the Japanese version and a slipcover like that version, since Sentai at least appeared to start selectively using them on some of their releases. Still undecided on whether to import the Japanese version too for the CD and slip, or whether to forget the CD and print my own Sentai-themed slip.

07-08-2021, 03:06 AM	#19
professorwho Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Apr 2017 4K collection:229 Blu-ray collection:982 Blu-ray reviews: 64 Trading Score:7	And the film still has a piss-poor bitrate due to multiple lossless tracks (I’d bet money the commentaries are lossless, which is unnecessary and eats up tons of bitrate) and them being poor at bitrate optimization. Still, it should be better than their last effort, even if it’s not optimal.

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