Unlikeable characters on the rise...

[HenryNOTCavill]

I really considered putting this in the TV thread but I think it applies to both TV and film, and I'd like to know if others have noticed or even care.

Recently my sig other tried to get me to watch a new show that turned me off instantly by how unlikeable the main characters were, and I started to think about how we're seeing this much more often over the last number of years. Personally I'm tired of it.

We usually get some stilted character (either by direction or lack of acting ability I can never be sure) who has to act tough which equates to acting emotionless most of the time. Maybe it's some weird concern about smiling too much and now we're getting the exact opposite? Lead roles used to be encouraging and gave you a reason to root for them. Now you have to sift through entire seasons (or movies) before they slowly bring out any redeeming qualities. As Hermione once phrased it, they have the "emotional range of a teaspoon." (Ironically, I don't think Emma Watson has much range either, but I liked her in that role).

So do you think this is more common? If so, do you think it's how actors are being directed and told to play characters or are they just hiring more and more stilted actors. I guess I just miss the days where you actually liked the lead roles in films/shows more.

[Zivouhr]

Originally Posted by HenryNOTCavill

I really considered putting this in the TV thread but I think it applies to both TV and film, and I'd like to know if others have noticed or even care.

Recently my sig other tried to get me to watch a new show that turned me off instantly by how unlikeable the main characters were, and I started to think about how we're seeing this much more often over the last number of years. Personally I'm tired of it.

We usually get some stilted character (either by direction or lack of acting ability I can never be sure) who has to act tough which equates to acting emotionless most of the time. Maybe it's some weird concern about smiling too much and now we're getting the exact opposite? Lead roles used to be encouraging and gave you a reason to root for them. Now you have to sift through entire seasons (or movies) before they slowly bring out any redeeming qualities. As Hermione once phrased it, they have the "emotional range of a teaspoon." (Ironically, I don't think Emma Watson has much range either, but I liked her in that role).

So do you think this is more common? If so, do you think it's how actors are being directed and told to play characters or are they just hiring more and more stilted actors. I guess I just miss the days where you actually liked the lead roles in films/shows more.

I've seen a number of films with an emotionless lead character. The movie Drive springs to mind, though in that film, his calm and emotionless personality is a sign of his mental self-control for most of the film till near the end, he rages out and makes some mistakes. But if I start seeing him playing that same role in every movie, then it would get boring.

I can see what you're saying. A lead hero who shows no personality for most of the film. Daniel Craig springs to mind in his 007 roles, compared to Sean Connery or Roger Moore, Pierce Bronsan, etc. No emotion, some brief one liners, and that's about it. In his line of work though, it makes sense to be detached. Is he like that though in all his films? I don't know.

Sometimes it works, but if it's in every movie, I can imagine it starting to get boring to see a quiet, non-talking, non-smiling, no emotion hero.

I think Liam Neeson is an action hero actor who can portray a range of emotions most times. Anger, calm, happiness, concern, etc. He shows it in his expressions in most of his films.

[L.J.]

Lot of new horror movies have this problem. Don't care for any of the characters so doesn't matter if they die. Think it was called Talk to Me, horrible character development was ready for the hand to kill them all so movie would end.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by L.J.

Lot of new horror movies have this problem. Don't care for any of the characters so doesn't matter if they die. Think it was called Talk to Me, horrible character development was ready for the hand to kill them all so movie would end.

Thats why most horror does not work. You'd think these idiot film makers would get this but they dont. Just: Drop annoying, hot teenagers into whatever backdrop and have them get tortured. The problem is that you are ROOTING for the torturer.

[CSM101]

For the OP.

can you list some specific examples?

[HenryNOTCavill]

The most common one recently is Brie Larson. Is she just stilted in real life or do they keep writing her character that way for some reason? We're two movies in now and she walks around expressionless in both movies.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Thats why most horror does not work. You'd think these idiot film makers would get this but they dont. Just: Drop annoying, hot teenagers into whatever backdrop and have them get tortured. The problem is that you are ROOTING for the torturer.

That's two reasons why I gave up on the horror genre. Most of the non-psycho characters were oversexed, and then for some reason, I found myself sympathizing more for the killer than any of his victims. I got heavily into the genre as a teen and into my 20s as well. I saw all the original Halloweens and Nightmares, plus the first three Screams. I never got into Friday the 13th though, oddly enough.

[Zivouhr]

Hereditary is horror and has developed characters that have ambitions, hopes, fears, anger and make some tough decisions, but mistakes too.

Regarding many Slasher horror films, there are some gems but it's true that many have a "disposable" cast of shallow characters. There are exceptions though, where there are some or one lead character that has more depth and personality. Sienna, the lead girl in the grisly slasher horror, Terrifier 2, is a character with a bit more depth and goals, questions about her father, etc. She seems like a thinking hero.

In the Terminator films, Sarah Conner, John Conner have a lot to deal with and some tough decisions to make, sacrifices, etc. to stay alive but also help eliminate Skynet. Their goals put them in harm's way often. Sarah shows a range of emotions but mostly anger.

As far as Brie Larson, I agree that her role in Captain Marvel (title?) was very stoic and not very exciting, low on emotions, though her trainer, Jude Law's character, I think wanted her that way to some degree. But in The Marvels sequel, Larson must have heard some concerns as her character was improved, and showed a much better personality and range in my opinion compared to the first film she was in as Marvel.

She was good in Kong Skull Island I thought.

Vin Diesel, he plays pretty much the same serious personality in most of his films lately. But Boiler Room, that was one of his better roles as it gave him more range. Pitch Black, he was mostly p!ssed off, but it fit his Riddick character well.

Many times, producers ask their casting agents to select certain actors for roles they've played already, and they get type cast to playing the same type of characters over and over. Not always, but many times I'd guess.

[Martoto]

Horror movies have had idiots and @rseholes for over 40 years now. It became useful in part to make the ratings board go easier on them. They were more likely to demand cuts if a victim was sympathetic. e.g. the ratings board told the producers of Jaws 2 they'd slap an R on it if they had Bob getting killed in the climax. Even if it was offscreen and they didn't show anything. Since the character was likeable and the audience, particularly younger members, had a relationship with him. They got away with killing Marge since she barely has any lines except telling Sean he can go in her boat. But Bob getting eaten too was pushing it.

And that's just a PG film. Horror films wanting an R but not wanting their film chopped up went the route of making everyone obnoxious to varying degrees so they could have little to no compunction about slicing them up whatever way they wanted.

Also it makes it easier for a less than skilled writer to bash out a screenplay if they don't have to conjure up compelling motivation for the killer and you can show characters doing any stupid thing that enters your mind if you convince the audience that the characters are stupid.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by HenryNOTCavill

The most common one recently is Brie Larson. Is she just stilted in real life or do they keep writing her character that way for some reason? We're two movies in now and she walks around expressionless in both movies.

Brie has been mad at the universe since her birth, it seems. Always looks constipated(maybe she is?). I hope she sorts it out.

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

That's two reasons why I gave up on the horror genre. Most of the non-psycho characters were oversexed, and then for some reason, I found myself sympathizing more for the killer than any of his victims. I got heavily into the genre as a teen and into my 20s as well. I saw all the original Halloweens and Nightmares, plus the first three Screams. I never got into Friday the 13th though, oddly enough.

Slasher films are probably the hardest since you need a plate full of victims and it’s hard to develop any of them properly. Still, if you keep the narrative tight and the maybe reduce the number of victims it can be done. The original Halloween only has a few kills but we spend the entire time with the cast. Friday the 13th had a cool concept but to me it was a tad silly and felt cheap.

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

Hereditary is horror and has developed characters that have ambitions, hopes, fears, anger and make some tough decisions, but mistakes too.

Regarding many Slasher horror films, there are some gems but it's true that many have a "disposable" cast of shallow characters. There are exceptions though, where there are some or one lead character that has more depth and personality. Sienna, the lead girl in the grisly slasher horror, Terrifier 2, is a character with a bit more depth and goals, questions about her father, etc. She seems like a thinking hero.

In the Terminator films, Sarah Conner, John Conner have a lot to deal with and some tough decisions to make, sacrifices, etc. to stay alive but also help eliminate Skynet. Their goals put them in harm's way often. Sarah shows a range of emotions but mostly anger.

As far as Brie Larson, I agree that her role in Captain Marvel (title?) was very stoic and not very exciting, low on emotions, though her trainer, Jude Law's character, I think wanted her that way to some degree. But in The Marvels sequel, Larson must have heard some concerns as her character was improved, and showed a much better personality and range in my opinion compared to the first film she was in as Marvel.

She was good in Kong Skull Island I thought.

Vin Diesel, he plays pretty much the same serious personality in most of his films lately. But Boiler Room, that was one of his better roles as it gave him more range. Pitch Black, he was mostly p!ssed off, but it fit his Riddick character well.

Many times, producers ask their casting agents to select certain actors for roles they've played already, and they get type cast to playing the same type of characters over and over. Not always, but many times I'd guess.

Hereditary is like 50 steps above the average horror shlock. Way more here than just straight out hacking and slashing. Great film. I myself prefer horror like that or say Insidious, Conjuring,etc. those are more interesting to me. Cant really get into gory torture porn or any of that crap.

[Martoto]

People who conflate actors with movie characters are in dire need of growing up.

[Roonan]

Originally Posted by HenryNOTCavill

I really considered putting this in the TV thread but I think it applies to both TV and film, and I'd like to know if others have noticed or even care.

Recently my sig other tried to get me to watch a new show that turned me off instantly by how unlikeable the main characters were, and I started to think about how we're seeing this much more often over the last number of years. Personally I'm tired of it.

It's not like they don't advertise it in trailers. Is there any new show without the now typical dolly shot with the tough, angry chick with an attitude walking towards the screen?

It's all about not giving them your time and money. There's no lack of classic shows that we all can waste our time on.

[Martoto]

Triggered by an "angry chick" walking toward camera.

[Al_The_Strange]

Huh. First thing I think of when I read the OP is Fincher's latest movie, The Killer, where those emotionless tough-guy characteristics were pushed on purpose. It kinda does follow the tropes and patterns established by other films of the genre, so I don't see it as anything terribly new. The film is often compared to Le Samourai, a 60s film that also boasted an emotionless, wooden lead, and I'd certainly argue that the leads in many other action, crime, or spy films are this way by design. They do this because they're pushing for stoic characteristics, which I find admirable in certain characters depending on the circumstances. A strong character who can take a punch and some degradation without breaking down? Yes, I can look up to that, moreso a character who withers into a crying fit when somebody looks at them the wrong way (not that I have specific examples of that, it's just an exaggeration--emotional weakness is not a likable trait imo).

That being said, I struggle to think of any more examples lately where I've noticed bland, wooden portrayals of tough guys. Yeah, Snyder's movies are a little too try-hard with this aspect, so the brooding Superman and Batfleck are off-putting. Some actors like Diesel and Statham do push the stoic demeanor hard, but I blame the writers more for not fleshing out their characters better (some films like Redemption are not too shabby). If there's no depth or even some deadpan humor, of course these characters come off as bland.

I did have a long rant about the characters I find most unlikable these days. Let's just summarize it as this: I think there are more cases of modern movies pushing a more narcissistic main character with unlikable traits and behavior, and I find that more obnoxious than the dry, stoic characters.

[Martoto]

Narcissistic characters appearing more in moves might be a reflection of the audience and/or the commentary that movies inevitably attract from certain sections of the audience.

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by Martoto

Narcissistic characters appearing more in moves might be a reflection of the audience and/or the commentary that movies inevitably attract from certain sections of the audience.

As a commentary, that is something I could appreciate in The Killer, at least through my amateur interpretation--it struck me as a critique on "main character syndrome." I would say that Saltburn does the same in its own way.

As a reflection of the audience though, I find it concerning.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Strange

As a commentary, that is something I could appreciate in The Killer, at least through my amateur interpretation--it struck me as a critique on "main character syndrome." I would say that Saltburn does the same in its own way.

As a reflection of the audience though, I find it concerning.

Under The Silver Lake is an excellent example. Great movie. A lot of its critics, i.e. people on social media/forums, are perplexed by the unpleasantness of the main character. Funnily enough, the main character displays a lot of the narcissistic traits; shallow cringe attitudes and obsessions plus underlying resentment and paranoia that characterises much of the pop culture discourse online.

That movie is enhanced massively by its casting of Garfield. A lot of audience members anticpated themselves being reflected in the ostensibly affable nerd persona Andrew effortlessly conveys. And were disturbed by how equally authentic he was being an absolute shit at the same time.

'O wad some Power the giftie gie us / To see oursels as ithers see us! ' - Robert Burns

[KManX89]

I know I’ve harped on this ad nauseum in the past as have many (probably for good reason), but the latest Black Christmas remake not only goes out of its way to say all men are A-holes from the opening frame to the end of the movie, but it literally goes out of its way to make every single male character an unlikable snot. The only two who have any degree of likability to them are either killed offscreen (because PG-13 slasher movie can’t show the slasher goods) after being told to GTFO or hook up with the lead female despite looking like Bill Cosby.

I don’t usually care about any of that “woke” nonsense, but I damn near got a concussion from being beaten over the head with its message so much that I couldn’t roll my eyes at the complaints this time. It’s not just men saying it’s overly-preachy misandrist bullshit, women are saying the same thing.

[BudBaxter]

Originally Posted by KManX89

I know I’ve harped on this ad nauseum in the past as have many (probably for good reason), but the latest Black Christmas remake not only goes out of its way to say all men are A-holes from the opening frame to the end of the movie, but it literally goes out of its way to make every single male character an unlikable snot. The only two who have any degree of likability to them are either killed offscreen (because PG-13 slasher movie can’t show the slasher goods) after being told to GTFO or hook up with the lead female despite looking like Bill Cosby.

I don’t usually care about any of that “woke” nonsense, but I damn near got a concussion from being beaten over the head with its message so much that I couldn’t roll my eyes at the complaints this time. It’s not just men saying it’s overly-preachy misandrist bullshit, women are saying the same thing.

It is an awful, awful movie with sledgehammer messaging & a clear hatred for men, but pretty much every female character is horribly unlikeable too.


As for the main topic, writers today seem to think that unlikeable = 'edgy', & are under the misapprehension that's what people want.

I've lost count of the number of tv shows & movies I've given up on because I didn't like or care about the characters. Even romcom fluff factory Hallmark seem to struggle to make their leads likeable these days...

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by BudBaxter

It is an awful, awful movie with sledgehammer messaging & a clear hatred for men, but pretty much every female character is horribly unlikeable too.


As for the main topic, writers today seem to think that unlikeable = 'edgy', & are under the misapprehension that's what people want.

I've lost count of the number of tv shows & movies I've given up on because I didn't like or care about the characters. Even romcom fluff factory Hallmark seem to struggle to make their leads likeable these days...

It's why I lost interest in Shameless, the characters are just such rotten people.