Recording from S-Video

[sa5150]

Is there anything better then a dvd recorder to record some of my laserdisc concerts that will never make it to dvd ? I have tried the USB junk , Garbage . I can't afford the Domesday Duplicator $500 (best there is) and have no soldering skills anyway . I do not want to upscale to 1080p . I will leave that up to dedicated software like Topaz that is superb .

[oddbox83]

Yeah don't worry about upscaling at capture point. For capture, you just want as clean as possible a digital clone of the original video.

Anything that would allow you to bypass a DVD Recorders MPEG2 limitations would help. I've no specific suggestions, but surely you can look into the better end of the USB "junk" that can do high bitrate captures with your video card doing the legwork into AVC or HEVC? Then you can tweak what you want and do a final software encode for archiving.

[HDTV1080P]

Laserdisc is native composite standard definition video and almost 99% of Laserdiscs do not use any copy protection technology, so some consumers feel under the fair use rules a backup copy is ok. Most of the time the composite video output will have a better picture then the S-Video output, it all depends on which device has the better combo filter. Most displays and recording devices have a better digital combo filter that separates the Y/C info. Now S-VHS and Hi8 are true native Y/C separation and S-Video will offer a better picture quality then composite video. But on Laserdisc with modern displays with better combo filters, always use the composite video output on Laserdisc players for the best picture quality.

I still have many Laserdisc titles in my collection that have not been released on 480i DVD, 2K Blu-ray, or 4K Blu-ray discs. That is true with any new format, some less known titles never see a re-release.

[Energy Crisis]

It's been a lifetime since I messed with any of this stuff, but generally you would want a decent capture card and then capture to a fast lossless codec. Then you can do whatever processing/cleanup you need to do and export a final encode. I'd suggest searching out the VideoHelp forums and read up there.

Alternately, I think there are some places that offer professional LD transfers, so that may be an option if you don't want to do the work yourself.

[sa5150]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Laserdisc is native composite standard definition video and almost 99% of Laserdiscs do not use any copy protection technology, so some consumers feel under the fair use rules a backup copy is ok. Most of the time the composite video output will have a better picture then the S-Video output, it all depends on which device has the better combo filter. Most displays and recording devices have a better digital combo filter that separates the Y/C info. Now S-VHS and Hi8 are true native Y/C separation and S-Video will offer a better picture quality then composite video. But on Laserdisc with modern displays with better combo filters, always use the composite video output on Laserdisc players for the best picture quality.

I still have many Laserdisc titles in my collection that have not been released on 480i DVD, 2K Blu-ray, or 4K Blu-ray discs. That is true with any new format, some less known titles never see a re-release.

I won't be watching from my LD to my Oled , I'm going to copy it and enhance it in Toapz VAI . Still use the composite or s-video when I record the LD ?

Not sure what the best way is yet ,

There is some mega expensive ways Which I don't feel the need to waste money on $500- $1500 devices . With the AI software I can make dvds into nice 1980p but those are makemkv rips .

Capturing a LD is not as easy but my dvd recorder might just have to do . It all gets fixed in Topaz later.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by sa5150

Is there anything better then a dvd recorder to record some of my laserdisc concerts that will never make it to dvd ? I have tried the USB junk , Garbage . I can't afford the Domesday Duplicator $500 (best there is) and have no soldering skills anyway . I do not want to upscale to 1080p . I will leave that up to dedicated software like Topaz that is superb .

The easiest solution is to use a DVD recorder, or to find a cheap capture card on Amazon and be done with it. If you want decent results without having to dig up too much ancient hardware:

- Find an old USB capture card that's recommended over at digitalfaq.com. You'll need a Win10 machine at the latest, ideally something that you can "airgap" and leave off any sort of network. Win7 will give you more options, and WinXP will give you the most options, although finding functional hardware running WinXP these days isn't easy.
- Use digitalfaq.com to get a recommended copy of VirtualDub that will capture the video.
- Use AviSynth to edit and deinterlace the video. When the video was shot on film (rare for concert videos but it does happen), you can also inverse telecine the video to get it back to the original 24 fps.

Unlike what a certain somebody said, LDs never had copy protection on them due to technical issues. So, lucky for you, there's no need to buy a time-base corrector or other external device that removes any copy protection.

Oh, and use composite video. LD video was encoded such that it couldn't take advantage of S-video.

[HDTV1080P]

Today most people upgrade their Laserdisc titles by purchasing 4K Blu-ray discs, 2K Blu-ray discs, and 480i DVD discs. Most people only keep their Laserdiscs titles if it never saw a re-release to a new and improved optical disc format.

According to online information Macrovision was a analog copy protection system used on VHS, Betamax and the Laserdisc format starting in the 1980’s. While I never tried to copy a Laserdisc, Laserdiscs 99% of the time did not use any copy protection since videophiles wanted the best possible picture, and Macrovision sometimes reduced the picture quality on standard displays. I have been told and read copy protection by Macrovision was used on the Back to the Future Laserdisc and others. Because 99% of Laserdiscs do not have copy protection, studios started delaying the Laserdisc releases a few months after the VHS/BETA releases which did have analog copy protection. Macrovision was easily defeated with hardware products being sold in the 1980's and 1990's. Also keep in mind the Laserdisc analog video copy is not as good as the original. Copying the digital soundtrack is bit for bit the same as the original, but most devices used to copy Laserdiscs copy both video and audio using lossy analog means. Since there was never recordable Laserdiscs, pirated Laserdiscs never existed since a one million dollar Laserdisc optical disc stamping (pressing) plant was require to make the Laserdiscs. Similar to 4K Blu-ray discs that have no recordable options, and require optical disc stamping (pressing) only in a multi-million dollar automated optical disc factory.

Here is proof that Laserdisc did use Macrovision copy protection once and awhile

Quote

“Macrovision is a copy-protection system from the company Macrovision Solutions Corporation, first used on the 1985 VHS/Betamax/LaserDisc of The Cotton Club. On July 16, 2009, the company changed its name to Rovi.”

https://www.avid.wiki/Macrovision

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Here is proof that Laserdisc did use Macrovision copy protection once and awhile

That's proof of sloppy writing, and nothing else. I know you just grabbed the first link you found that you thought backed you up, but please, can you link to the original article? You know, the one that says the film will be the first videocassette to have Macrovision? The Macrovision chairman even says it can be extended to LDs, not that it is used on that particular LD.

I know whatever brain issues you have are going to prevent you from taking the following to heart. For everybody else, Macrovision was incompatible with LDs.

Another advantage, at least to some consumers, was the fact that any sort of anti-piracy technology was purely optional. It was claimed that Macrovision's Copyguard protection could not be applied to LaserDisc, due to the format's design. The vertical blanking interval, where the Macrovision signal would be implemented, was used for timecode and frame coding as well as player control codes on LaserDisc players. Due to its relatively small market share, there was never a push to redesign the format despite the obvious potential for piracy. The industry simply decided to engineer it into the DVD specification.

In other words, the Macrovision spec, as written, would've made LDs unplayable. They could've modified the technology. For whatever reasons, they never did. Go hang out on LDDB and find a disc that uses Macrovision if you don't believe me. (Meanwhile, you will find bootleg LDs, unlike your original claim says.)

EDIT: Okay, I see now why you're making this ridiculous claim. You're convinced that a Back to the Future LD has Macrovision. (I finally skimmed the rest of that gobbledygook.) If Google's accurate, you're the only person who has ever made this claim. Your claim is based off some high school kid supposedly trying to copy the disc 40 years ago and failing. Therefore, it had to be Macrovision, and not operator error or some other explanation. Further, you're convinced videophiles complained about and stopped Macrovision, even though that would've presented a gaping hole for pirates to exploit. No evidence, just your assertion, even though that claim has never been made elsewhere to my knowledge, much less on LDDB (i.e., a site that knows LDs inside and out).

[sa5150]

Originally Posted by apollo828

That's proof of sloppy writing, and nothing else. I know you just grabbed the first link you found that you thought backed you up, but please, can you link to the original article? You know, the one that says the film will be the first videocassette to have Macrovision? The Macrovision chairman even says it can be extended to LDs, not that it is used on that particular LD.

I know whatever brain issues you have are going to prevent you from taking the following to heart. For everybody else, Macrovision was incompatible with LDs.

Another advantage, at least to some consumers, was the fact that any sort of anti-piracy technology was purely optional. It was claimed that Macrovision's Copyguard protection could not be applied to LaserDisc, due to the format's design. The vertical blanking interval, where the Macrovision signal would be implemented, was used for timecode and frame coding as well as player control codes on LaserDisc players. Due to its relatively small market share, there was never a push to redesign the format despite the obvious potential for piracy. The industry simply decided to engineer it into the DVD specification.

In other words, the Macrovision spec, as written, would've made LDs unplayable. They could've modified the technology. For whatever reasons, they never did. Go hang out on LDDB and find a disc that uses Macrovision if you don't believe me. (Meanwhile, you will find bootleg LDs, unlike your original claim says.)

EDIT: Okay, I see now why you're making this ridiculous claim. You're convinced that a Back to the Future LD has Macrovision. (I finally skimmed the rest of that gobbledygook.) If Google's accurate, you're the only person who has ever made this claim. Your claim is based off some high school kid supposedly trying to copy the disc 40 years ago and failing. Therefore, it had to be Macrovision, and not operator error or some other explanation. Further, you're convinced videophiles complained about and stopped Macrovision, even though that would've presented a gaping hole for pirates to exploit. No evidence, just your assertion, even though that claim has never been made elsewhere to my knowledge, much less on LDDB (i.e., a site that knows LDs inside and out).

Thanks Apollo , Not sure what his point was, The stuff I'm trying to preserve are old 80's concerts that were only released in Japan on LD and will NEVER be on anything better. If a dvd was out I would not be wasting my time on this . Who in the world would try and copy a LD if you can buy a blu-ray or 4K of it .

The Original Star Wars trilogy is the most important LD out there but star wars is MEGA huge and all ready been done by fans with AI to 4K .

To me what's worse is people who won't buy the Three Stooges blu-ray set because they think there dvd is good enough ,
No way... this new set is pristine , Twilight Zone quality as 1 member said it on their thread !


HDTV1080P @ , believe it or not there are movies still not out on DVD and probably never will . But for me this is all about concerts and there isn't no way in a million years that Night Ranger will get a blu-ray of a 1985 show .

Comcast/Universal who owns the rights could care less . I could only hope that someone is Japan has some exclusive rights but this would have been done years ago , Ain't going to happen in 2024. And the bands have no idea and personally they don't even care as they probably would not get a dime . .

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by sa5150

Thanks Apollo , Not sure his point was, The stuff I'm trying to preserve are old 80's concerts that were only released in Japan on LD and will NEVER be on anything better. If a dvd was out I would not be wasting my time on this . Who in the world would try and copy a LD if you can buy a blu-ray or 4K of it .

You're welcome. I've got a few of those releases myself that I've personally transferred. Even when a band wishes to re-release their films, it's not always possible to find the source materials. One band contacted the director. He couldn't find the master to his own film! So, the band had to track down an LD and transfer it to DVD themselves. (I did my own transfer awhile back. They botched the NTSC-to-PAL transfer.) It's really sad that a lot of these releases are neglected, held up by rights issues, whatever.

[sa5150]

Originally Posted by apollo828

You're welcome. I've got a few of those releases myself that I've personally transferred. Even when a band wishes to re-release their films, it's not always possible to find the source materials. One band contacted the director. He couldn't find the master to his own film! So, the band had to track down an LD and transfer it to DVD themselves. (I did my own transfer awhile back. They botched the NTSC-to-PAL transfer.) It's really sad that a lot of these releases are neglected, held up by rights issues, whatever.

Got a almost new late 2005 model with the LSI chipset Toshiba dr4 finally in the mail today , Good fast recorder , Though little disappointed it only records in AC3 192kbs . My old Panny did LPCM . Tried both composite and S-video , No difference what so ever . I guess this will have to do . I'm getting my new RTX 4070 super today and going to mess with some Topaz AI . I had good results last time but was not crazy about my old Panny video quality , It was a 2003 model . I can probably get better results with some kind of PC capture but idk if its really even worth messing with , Topaz does wonders .

[PUsokrJosh305]

I'm not sure if you can acquire one or not (because they are older), but I have a Hauppauge HD PVR that I have used to take old VHS tapes and record them digitally. You just plug the VCR, or LaserDisc player in your case, to the PVR and hook that into your computer. You an adjust how good of the quality it can be and what audio you want. I used the composite cables last time but in the future, I'm going to use the S-Video hookup and Optical Cable hook up for the best recording for video and audio.

This is a method you could use.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by sa5150

I can probably get better results with some kind of PC capture but idk if its really even worth messing with , Topaz does wonders .

It's very much worth using, IMO. I've played around a bit with Topaz. While not awful, I've just found it too easy to lean on and get results that seem nice at a glance but don't hold up well when you compare them to a proper capture deinterlaced with tools like AviSynth. Maybe things have improved since I last tinkered with Topaz. As is, I'd maybe use it for light (2x max) upscaling and leave it at that. Any more and you risk turning everything to wax. (Exhibit A: All the fanmade "4K remasters" on YouTube. It's like Madame Tussauds come to life!)

[sa5150]

Originally Posted by apollo828

It's very much worth using, IMO. I've played around a bit with Topaz. While not awful, I've just found it too easy to lean on and get results that seem nice at a glance but don't hold up well when you compare them to a proper capture deinterlaced with tools like AviSynth. Maybe things have improved since I last tinkered with Topaz. As is, I'd maybe use it for light (2x max) upscaling and leave it at that. Any more and you risk turning everything to wax. (Exhibit A: All the fanmade "4K remasters" on YouTube. It's like Madame Tussauds come to life!)

I agree and PUsokrJosh305 had a good option , My friend has this device that I'm going to ask to borrow . Seems to be the most affordable thing to get . If avisynth is what I remember I have no clue how to do scripts and that out for me . Virtualdub is also a pain in the butt . While Topaz takes some long times to finish and heavy use that's why I got most affordable gpu that's decent . I know that wax look and I have found settings to make it look natural . If you can get it right and it takes a few tries its night and day over the dvds , I upscale them at 59.94 , 2x deinterlaced and that seems to be the best setting so far in 1080p and they look like blu-ray to me . No waxy look . I have tried some not so good LDs with possible laser rot and 1 time pass did not work good enough . Not sure if its really laser rot or just a bad transfer . Some lds look horrible for concerts since many were video taped and might even be using a VHS master , So they need a lot of work .

Its simply not worth buying that domesday duplicator $500 or paying $$$ for services when I only need a couple lds done .After this project I can sell my 3 discs and sell my LD player or send it to a recycling center . I'm so done with this stuff .