Dolby Atmos vs DTS:X on a 5.1 system

[Hintermann]

I am restricted to a 5.1 surround system based around the Yamaha RX-V685 Receiver. After initial glitches it is now working pretty well but I am wondering about the best speakers setting while watching Blu Ray movies, especially those with Dolby Atmos or DTS:X audio.

I found that the system works extremely well all around with Atmos, with a good balance between spoken dialogue and action sounds. But with DTS:X, I have to jack-up the level of the centre speaker by 30% to achieve the same balance (and by 50% if it is DTS HD7.1 Master Audio). Am I doing something wrong or have others noticed this issue?

[hupie]

I have an old denon avr 452o and there is a enhancer voor the center speaker in the menu

[Barry_NJ]

With 5.1 playback hardware, I would go with Direct, and use the correct decoder for the encoding on the disc/source. I'll often up-mix to Atmos or DTS-X for sources that are in the older formats, but I usually remain true to the origin. So older Dolby sources get Atmos upmixing, and DTS gets DTS Neural-X. I do tend to find the DTS Neural-X makes more use of the overhead speakers. But without overhead speakers my vote is to use the proper decoding for what's encoded on the source...

[Hintermann]

An option that a local sound tech suggested and I am considering is to install a couple of Elac or Jamo wired "Atmos speakers" sitting on top of my Yamaha NS-P350 front speakers but angled towards the ceiling. Will that work?

[unberechenbar]

Originally Posted by Hintermann

An option that a local sound tech suggested and I am considering is to install a couple of Elac or Jamo wired "Atmos speakers" sitting on top of my Yamaha NS-P350 front speakers but angled towards the ceiling. Will that work?

It would be better than nothing and I did that at first before I installed my speakers on the ceiling. And your receiver can support 7 channels, so why not? If installing on the ceiling isn't an option, you could also use height speakers instead (basically setting them up where the wall meets the ceiling).

[Hintermann]

Originally Posted by unberechenbar

If installing on the ceiling isn't an option, you could also use height speakers instead (basically setting them up where the wall meets the ceiling).

That's the trouble. The wall does NOT meet the ceiling directly. My wife, who's the owner of the apartment, has installed an expensive false ceiling that is not amenable for cutting or drilling (and I would be dead if I tried ). So, I'll have to make do with the Atmos Speakers sitting on top of my Yamaha NS-P350 front speakers.

It might not be as bad as we think. The Yamahas are mounted on high quality speaker stands and the FLAT top surfaces are 18cms (7 inches) square. So, without breaking the bank or appearing incongruous, what Atmos speaker pair should I choose? (Not all models are available here in India, Jamo and Elac seem most popular)

Also, how do those speakers work with DTS:X discs?

[unberechenbar]

Originally Posted by Hintermann

That's the trouble. The wall does NOT meet the ceiling directly. My wife, who's the owner of the apartment, has installed an expensive false ceiling that is not amenable for cutting or drilling (and I would be dead if I tried ). So, I'll have to make do with the Atmos Speakers sitting on top of my Yamaha NS-P350 front speakers.

It might not be as bad as we think. The Yamahas are mounted on high quality speaker stands and the FLAT top surfaces are 18cms (7 inches) square. So, without breaking the bank or appearing incongruous, what Atmos speaker pair should I choose? (Not all models are available here in India, Jamo and Elac seem most popular)

Also, how do those speakers work with DTS:X discs?

I haven't really looked into upfiring speakers but I've heard that SVS Prime Elevation speakers are great if you're not able to physically install speakers overhead. I used Sony SS-CSE speakers as upfiring speakers before I mounted them on the ceiling and I rarely noticed them. I'm not familiar with Jamo or Elac but maybe someone else can chime in.

Immersive audio should work the same way with upfiring speakers regardless of whether it is Atmos or DTS:X.

[Hintermann]

I did some checking, particularly with dimensions because the Atmos speakers have to sit on top of my Yamaha NS-P350 fronts. The only two suitable models that I have found are Sony SS-CSE and Polk Audio XT90. The rest, like Elac, Jamo etc are too big.

[red_5ive]

In my experience, that's just a Yamaha thing. Their processors are among the most dynamic that I've ever used, and they tend to drown out dialog when there's a lot going on. I've been using Yamaha for years, and even with the flagship processor that I currently have + separate amplification, those dynamics are even greater.

Yamaha also has a "Dialog level" setting that will boost the dialog frequencies, which you should have on your 865. But, the stupid thing is that it doesn't work on DTS:X specifically. Works great on all the other audio formats.

Also, if your center channel is below ear level, you could also try the "Dialog lift" option, which will bring the dialog up closer to the center of the TV and may help a little with dialog. Normally, that feature is intended for the front presence/height channels, but with a 5.1 setup you can still use it as long as you enable a Cinema DSP, which will then apply the lift to the main channels so it will also depend how high your Main speakers are. If the 865 has "Surround:AI", use that for the DSP as it will still work with Dialog Lift and also boost the dialog. If not, try out the "Science Fiction" DSP with Dialog Lift.

If you don't set the volume over -20, also try enabling YPAO Volume and Adaptive DRC. That should help balance the audio and help with dialog, but still provide some punch.

Originally Posted by Hintermann

An option that a local sound tech suggested and I am considering is to install a couple of Elac or Jamo wired "Atmos speakers" sitting on top of my Yamaha NS-P350 front speakers but angled towards the ceiling. Will that work?

I'm a little confused. I thought you were having an issue with dialog level from DTS:X tracks? Atmos speakers aren't going to fix this apart from what I mentioned above.

Originally Posted by Hintermann

That's the trouble. The wall does NOT meet the ceiling directly. My wife, who's the owner of the apartment, has installed an expensive false ceiling that is not amenable for cutting or drilling (and I would be dead if I tried ). So, I'll have to make do with the Atmos Speakers sitting on top of my Yamaha NS-P350 front speakers.

It might not be as bad as we think. The Yamahas are mounted on high quality speaker stands and the FLAT top surfaces are 18cms (7 inches) square. So, without breaking the bank or appearing incongruous, what Atmos speaker pair should I choose? (Not all models are available here in India, Jamo and Elac seem most popular)

Also, how do those speakers work with DTS:X discs?

Yamaha's manual indicates that with the Cinema DSPs, you can enjoy Atmos and DTS:X mixes in any configuration (height/presence, up-firing, overhead), so any configuration should work with DTS:X with a Cinema DSP enabled. Just don't ask me what the DSP is doing to the source material. But I will say that it sounds good to me when done right. As mentioned above, use Surround:AI if the 865 has it, otherwise I recommend the Sci-Fi DSP as it is the most natural sounding of the DSPs IMO.

But again, not sure what your goal is as I thought you were concerned about dialog with DTS:X mixes.