Thunderball BD Transfer

[L32GTPCompG]

I was able to watch most of Thunderball today and I noticed about 3-4 thin vertical lines stretching up and down for a good majority of the first half. I also noticed in various other scenes large black specs of dirt and grain, particulary during the scene when Bond and the girl's boat comes out of the water after they first meet. I remember most of this movie looking better in the Ultimate Edition DVD with all of the dirt/grain removed. Doesn't this HD transfer come from the same restored Lowry Digital transfer that they did for the rest of the movies?

[Gone2HiDef]

I saw the same dirt stuff in the boat scene too. Good question whether it's the same same transfer as the DVD. After enjoying the clean presentations of Dr. No and From Russia with Love, I was stunned by Thunderball. Great film still, but stunned by those "quaint" imperfections.

[fuwa]

After the main titles sequence the aspect ratio is not changed for 30 seconds whereas in the standard dvd the aspect ratio enlarges immediately after the titles sequence. I saw Thunderball the first day it came out in the theaters and several times after that. I can't recall the picture changing sizes after the opening titles and I don't know which if either home video version is correct.

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by L32GTPCompG

I was able to watch most of Thunderball today and I noticed about 3-4 thin vertical lines stretching up and down for a good majority of the first half. I also noticed in various other scenes large black specs of dirt and grain, particulary during the scene when Bond and the girl's boat comes out of the water after they first meet. I remember most of this movie looking better in the Ultimate Edition DVD with all of the dirt/grain removed. Doesn't this HD transfer come from the same restored Lowry Digital transfer that they did for the rest of the movies?

I, too, was surprised, especially after watching the extra feature regarding restoration of the 007 films on the Dr. No disk. The even gave specific "before and after" examples of where there had been fibers and dirt on the film. Other than those few examples in Thunderball, however, I think BD versions of the Sean Connery movies look incredible for their age.

[Mike Z]

I was pretty sure they did the BD transfer from the same Ultimate Edition DVDs that came out two years ago.

There's no reason they would use a different source than the pristine Lowry Digital prints.

[Daredevil666]

It's not because it's on Blu that it was well preserved. If the movie negative have huge damage, there's only a certain % of repair you can do digitally. Beyond that, it would cost millions to artificially recreate the "perfect" image that probably never was ever if the neg was badly preserved. Maybe it was wasted in the camera filming it. There's only two choices, redo a movie the Lucas way or preserve it as is. I'm sure the damage on TB is either from then, or since (ie it was a huge successful movie, so the neg was more used than for a fair success). As long as it looks like the original movie, I don't mind a bit of damage.

"Perfect" image shouldn't be the yardstick, it should be "transparent to the negative" when it comes to old movies, with repairement done to make the viewing smoother, but only to a certain point (that for compagnies is money and time). The next step is recreating shots digitally. No thanks

[Mike Z]

I think the main point is that the Ultimate Editions cleaned by Lowry are great transfers and there's no reason the Thunderball BD should have defects that the DVD doesn't.

[L32GTPCompG]

The site's review of the movie's video quality states that it was transfered using the Lowry Digital Transfer. However, it also states that there are a few blemishes occurring in some scenes because of the film's age. Here's the quote:

MGM has given Thunderball the royal treatment on Blu-ray. The film was restored using the Lowry grain reduction / restoration process and looks truly fantastic. Thunderball is presented in its original theatrical aspect ratio of 2.35:1 and it’s worth noting that this is the first of the Bond films to be filmed in this widescreen format. Unsurprisingly, MGM has opted for a Mpeg-4 / AVC high bitrate encode in full 1080p as well. For a 43 year old film, Thunderball looks spectacular. I was amazed at the level of detail and contrast the image displayed. There are a few flaws that are apparent from the source, but the encoding is virtually flawless.

Thunderball displays a few anomalies befitting a film of its age. There is an occasional amount of flicker present that comes across the lower left quarter of the picture. In addition, there are also a few instances of lessened contrast and color density probably resulting from damaged film elements. Make no mistake, these are very slight issues and don’t detract from the enjoyment of this 43 year old film in any way. The source is also amazingly clean and free of any distracting compression artifacts. Ultimately, Thunderball has probably never looked this good and it has certainly never been presented for home viewing in anything approaching the quality of this set.

[fuwa]

"I think the main point is that the Ultimate Editions cleaned by Lowry are great transfers and there's no reason the Thunderball BD should have defects that the DVD doesn't."

The BD has the same defects as the Lowry Ultimate Editions. The BD has higher resolution and sharpness so the defects just stand out more. It is like focusing a microscope, at first the image is blurry but as you adjust the microscope the image becomes more defined.

I replayed the boat on the beach scene several times, switching back and forth between the Ultimate and BD editions. You have to look very carefully but you can see the defects (soft, blurry) on the Ultimate Edition exactly where the defects are (more pronounced) on the BD.

[davcole]

Thank you for pointing out something so many reviewers have missed. It doesn't look like print damage moreso than bad telecine but it's there througout the movie.

Sad really cause the film is mostly pristine outside of that.

[L32GTPCompG]

Here's a screenshot of the scene I captured from my UE DVD that I still have. You'll notice that there are no black blemishes on the right side as I saw on the BD transfer.



Another scene where I saw the black blemishes on the right side also occurs is the scene where the female assassin is shooting with Largo at his house. Here's a shot from the UE DVD that has no blemishes as well.



IMO, it looks like Fox/MGM used the transfer from the original DVD instead of the remastered Lowry Digital transfer from the UE. There's several spots of grain and scratches on the bottom of the screen in some scenes in the second half. However when I looked at the BD transfer overall, the coloring and skin detail are far superior or equal to the UE. I would probably give the transfer a 7/10 rating because of these blemishes and scratches that occur in the movie as compared to the Dr. No and From Russia With Love transfers which are excellent.

[nycomet]

Originally Posted by L32GTPCompG

Here's a screenshot of the scene I captured from my UE DVD that I still have. You'll notice that there are no black blemishes on the right side as I saw on the BD transfer.



Another scene where I saw the black blemishes on the right side also occurs is the scene where the female assassin is shooting with Largo at his house. Here's a shot from the UE DVD that has no blemishes as well.



IMO, it looks like Fox/MGM used the transfer from the original DVD instead of the remastered Lowry Digital transfer from the UE. There's several spots of grain and scratches on the bottom of the screen in some scenes in the second half. However when I looked at the BD transfer overall, the coloring and skin detail are far superior or equal to the UE. I would probably give the transfer a 7/10 rating because of these blemishes and scratches that occur in the movie as compared to the Dr. No and From Russia With Love transfers which are excellent.

It would have been better if your showed a screen shot of the exact frame from the UE disc next to the BD disc for comparison. In the second photo, what is that dirt mark just above the cloud to the left of Pu$$y Galore's hair? It almost looks like a UFO.

If it turns out to be TRUE that Fox/MGM used the wrong master by mistake then they should RE-PRESS it using the correct master and allow those of use who bought it to obtain a replacement disc.

I'll bet they never address the situation at all. Sigh.

[L32GTPCompG]

It would have been better if your showed a screen shot of the exact frame from the UE disc next to the BD disc for comparison. In the second photo, what is that dirt mark just above the cloud to the left of Pu$$y Galore's hair? It almost looks like a UFO.

Can anyone take screenshots off of their BD copy? I can't take any because of the drive in my PC. That black spot above the cloud is supposed to be Bond's helicopter flying around in the distance.

If it turns out to be TRUE that Fox/MGM used the wrong master by mistake then they should RE-PRESS it using the correct master and allow those of use who bought it to obtain a replacement disc.

I really doubt that they're gonna re-press it. I just hope for the future releases of the other movies that they correct some of the problems that occurred in the Ultimate Edition DVD's.

[Mike Z]

Originally Posted by nycomet

In the second photo, what is that dirt mark just above the cloud to the left of Pu$$y Galore's hair? It almost looks like a UFO.

I think P. Galore is in Goldfinger not Thunderball...just saying.

[Blu-Ron]

Originally Posted by Mike Z

I think P. Galore is in Goldfinger not Thunderball...just saying.

Yep.

[fuwa]

The defects are so subtle on the UE that you really can't see them on a 3" by 5" picture on a computer screen.

Play the Blu-ray and observe exactly where the black marks occur. Go back to the UE edition and watch exactly the same place on the picture and you will see blurred defects. I had to look very closely on a 50" plasma screen to see them but they are there. For example, watch as Domino and Bond walk up the beach after getting off the boat. Observe the man on the beach towel as they walk towards him. You will see a blurred defect move across the screen at the man's head level as the camera pans across the screen.

I didn't notice any of this on the UE or Blu-ray on casual viewing until I read this post. I think the blu-ray high quality picture resolution brings out more.

I am still curious about why the picture enlarges after the opening credits on the UE but just instantly changes (no transition) to a larger size at the next scene after Largo enters the building, on the blu-ray.