If it ain't broke, dont fix...er replace it.

[X10A_Freedom]

I feel that blue ray is still a long ways aways even though PS3 and PSP are using the medium. Remember gameboy Cartridge, they will just be like those. i.e. I don't see gameboy Cartridges becoming the standard of digital recordings. There is so many hypes about products during their FIRST release that it is amazing. Of course, if you are Bill Gates, you would own a 3000 USD Blu-Ray recorder 'only' to record their favor shows on tv, but not anyone would have 3000USD to spare on a video recorder.

Personally, I feel that the new DVD/HDD recorders for HDTV, or even just VHS for Standard tv are already good enough to do the job. There is no point in buying blu-ray or HD-DVD products just yet. Even IF they have a blu-ray recorder for my PC, I would still not buy it just yet, because I don't really know what I want to burn on a 25GB disc when my PC's hard drive only has about 60-100GB of data at any one-time. Plus would you really want to wait 10 hours just so you can burn a single disc? The DVD market has not really mature to the point of CD-R as, so there is still some expanding space for DVD.

On an other point, many major PC games developer have not adopt to the DVD format... and you know why.. because CD-R are already saturated in the market, and they don't want to lose out on those with only CD-R on their PC. Eventually, we will see 20+x DVD recorders, and only THEN would we see SOME markets for blu-ray or HD-DVD.. Until then... there is really no point in buying any of them just yet... The battle between blu-ray and HD-DVD only slows the process...but then the winner of the duel would still have to wait a LONG time before the market adopts.

[tron3]

Originally Posted by X10A_Freedom

Personally, I feel that the new DVD/HDD recorders for HDTV, or even just VHS for Standard tv are already good enough to do the job. ...

What new DVD/HDD recorders? The Sony DHG-hdd250 & 500 has no dvd recorder built-in. Even if it did, it would record at standard resolution. Which is exactly why my Panasonic dmr-e100 recorder is great for standard TV, but not hi-def. At best the XP mode is closer to super-bit quality. But still only SDTV resolution.

VHS? You trying to make me laugh? SDTV is 480 lines of resolution. VHS only does 240 lines! Even in SP mode, VHS can not compare to my dvd recorder. VHS sucked when it came out. But few people knew or cared. It recorded and played.

People are more tech savvy today and the industry has a harder time keeping us in the dark.

[Rob]

I have a JVC SVHS recorder that records at 400 lines or so, yet the PQ is no where near as good as recordings made from my Pan 85 hdd dvd rec. There are far too many benefits of a dvd recording over that of an svhs rec. For one, I can record a programme to hdd, edit and title, chapter etc. Then transfer to a dvd-r that cost 25p! SVHS tapes cost me £5 a time. I haven't been impressed with pre-recorded vhs tapes for 10 years or more. As such I've bought more dvds in 2 years as I tapes in 15. The quicker tapes are discontinued the better imo.

[zombie]

Blu-ray is much closer than you think. There will be hundreds of titles available by Christmas '06.

[X10A_Freedom]

Originally Posted by tron3

What new DVD/HDD recorders? The Sony DHG-hdd250 & 500 has no dvd recorder built-in. Even if it did, it would record at standard resolution. Which is exactly why my Panasonic dmr-e100 recorder is great for standard TV, but not hi-def. At best the XP mode is closer to super-bit quality. But still only SDTV resolution.

VHS? You trying to make me laugh? SDTV is 480 lines of resolution. VHS only does 240 lines! Even in SP mode, VHS can not compare to my dvd recorder. VHS sucked when it came out. But few people knew or cared. It recorded and played.

People are more tech savvy today and the industry has a harder time keeping us in the dark.

So VHS is not so great.. but then it works. There are DVD/HDD recorders that give DVD recordings and Hard Disk Drive (about 160-200GB) support. Personally, I think this is the stuff for SDTV.. maybe even HDTV. Right now, HDTV is starting to see some market as the price already came down a little, but it is by far not for the general public yet (maybe in the next few year or so). As with any technology, the faster you get stuff, the more you get rip off, and I dont think you want a 15' HDTV either.

I see you got a DVD recorder, so I guess you are faster than some people, but not everyone is as keen to buy a DVD recorder just yet. However, I do see that DVD recorder becoming the main stream in the next few years, so blu-ray or HD-DVD is still AT LEAST a few years AWAY. We waited about 5 years for DVD to become the (sub-)standard[really not a full standard yet, since there are still CD products], so I THINK that it would be at least 2010 before we see mass productions of blu-ray or HD-DVD. The battle between the two just makes the process longer. Maybe it will be the case that HD-DVD becoming a PC product, and blu-ray for movies... but I highly doubt two standards can co-exist. HD-DVD is highly compatable with current technology, but blu-ray is sort-of out of the blue, and it takes longer to adopt.

Sony introduced the memory strip, but I don't really see products of other brands use them. If you are die-hard sony fan, by all means go for blu-ray, since Sony WILL support it on its own. For me personally, I would like the option to adopt to different brands, and not stick with ONE company or a GROUP of maybe 20 companies(I am not a fan of Disney btw). There is also the fact that Sony often have higher priced products for slight increases in performance. Basically, Sony is like a mercedes.. it MIGHT not have the performance, but it does have the brand.

[tron3]

Originally Posted by X10A_Freedom

So VHS is not so great.. but then it works.

X10A, my friend. Please understand something. VHS has been around since the late 1970's. We are talking about a technology 25-30 years old! Yes, it worked. After defeating Beta it was the only game in town. Not even laser disc could unseat it. But it is time we stopped supporting it!

A young man of 25-30 has many good years left to live. A technology that old should die. It simply can not capture the resolution and need. My goodness, even the potato peeler improved in 30 years.

[The Cyndicate]

My company already has access to a BD press.
I would say Blu-Ray is here, and it is up to the respective owners when it hits. Every bit of info I have, tells me Sony is planning on launching it with mid level games on the psp, and the ps3 is not far away. Movies are already being pressed so that the BD format will have tons of movies on launch. BD white papers are being sent out all over software R and D departments.

I am very excited about Blu-Ray. It is the best format going. Yes, it will be outdone one day. Remember in ONE generation, we went from Black and White tube TVS in the 50s, to HDTV Plasma flat screen TVs. We have gone from reel to reel, to records, to 8 tracks, cassette tapes, to cds. We have gone from still projectors, to black and white projectors with no sound, projectors with sounds, 8mm, beta, VHS, Laser Discs, DVDs.

Its a progression we are used too. I welcome change.

[Rob]

Sure vhs works, but so do black and white tvs. The quality of vhs pre-recorded and own recordings is rubbish. On the other hand, dvd recordings in sp are nigh on identical to source. There are no editing options on tape, they degrade over time, they're half the resolution, no instant access etc etc. Would people rather have stuck with audio cassettes rather than mvoing onto cds? who here still plays audio cassettes? I haven't in over 10 years. Also, dvd-r's can be pciked up for just 25p each if bought 25/50 at a time. Far cheaper than cassettes even now.

[X10A_Freedom]

Originally Posted by The Cyndicate

My company already has access to a BD press.
I would say Blu-Ray is here, and it is up to the respective owners when it hits. Every bit of info I have, tells me Sony is planning on launching it with mid level games on the psp, and the ps3 is not far away. Movies are already being pressed so that the BD format will have tons of movies on launch. BD white papers are being sent out all over software R and D departments.

I am very excited about Blu-Ray. It is the best format going. Yes, it will be outdone one day. Remember in ONE generation, we went from Black and White tube TVS in the 50s, to HDTV Plasma flat screen TVs. We have gone from reel to reel, to records, to 8 tracks, cassette tapes, to cds. We have gone from still projectors, to black and white projectors with no sound, projectors with sounds, 8mm, beta, VHS, Laser Discs, DVDs.

Its a progression we are used too. I welcome change.

Yes, progress is good, but then the market determines that change. Now is not the time to spend thousands just on a HDTV, with the economy and all. We done that in the tech boom in the 90's and over 99% of the computers have devalued by 90%+ in a 5-8 year period. Basically, Blu-disc or HD-DVD will be the future, no doubt about that, but then we have to look at the cost and benefit of things. Of course, if everything is standardized with slight or medium differences by companies, then it would be good, like DVD.

What makes DVD so popular? The DVD recorder certainly plays a HUGH role in bringing DVD to the top. DVD recorders , despite the slightly overpriced tag, become popular, and leads to DVD movies becoming popular, too. So, I would say that whoever can give a BD recorder will be the winner of the Blu-ray, HD-DVD race. Of course, prices of those recorders will also play a role. Right now, with the prices of BD players, BD will just be those catiridges in gameboy games or that mini-disc in Gamecube.

[Rob]

Blu-Ray isn't out in the UK until 2006 at the earliest. Then it will take a couple of years before there's a large enough selection of pre-recorded films to buy. Also, there will be a limited number of Sky hi-def channels available to record at first, (freeview hi-def won't occur til analogue switch off around 2012). There are very few tvs out there that can accept a 720p/1080i(p) signal. I envisage sales, and hence the adoption rate, will be slower than dvd. Thus prices will be extremely prohibitive at first, and perhaps longer than dvd. Personally I didn't buy a dvd player untill early 2001, some 3/4 years after release. Following the same pattern I'll be buying Blu-Ray in 2009/10. By then I will have had my dvd rec for 6/7 years and will be definitely looking to upgrade. Will have had my tv for the same legnth of time (26" lcd stop gap until spec/connectivity improves and prices fall) so will probably replace that too. Though, it's very likely I will have bought an XBox 2 or PS3 before then. PS3 will have Blu-Ray playback, and XBox 2 possibly HD-DVD.

The speed of Blu-Ray adoption depends on how noticeably superior BR is to dvd. Perhaps hi-def tv will impress consumers so much that sd dvd's and tv start to look as bad as vhs. However, there's no need for people to panic, (a letter on bbc1 teletext pages complaining about having to buy into a new format), as dvd's will still play on BR players. It's even possible that future BR players will have something akin to the scaler in Denon's upcoming £2,000 dvd player, which scales dvd/tv sd material to 1080p. Apparantly it's a scaled down version of a $60,000 chip used professionally to scale tv material.

I'm not sure about the relavance of GC discs or GBA carts. GC discs were a format specifically developed for Nintendo who were concerned about the ease of dvd's and hence their games being copied. It was never intended as a format for the future. Especialy as it's just 1.5GBytes. Carts are currently too expensive to make large capacity. Especially in comparison to the upcoming 54GByte BR dual layer discs. PSP discs aren't Blu-Ray, but a propriety disc medium called Universal Media Disc or UMD for short. With a 1.8GB capacity it will be used for games as well as movies. Possibly music? whether it catches on is depends on whether people will be prepared to buy films on both dvd and UMD. Though if it's successful Sony may make other hardware that uses the format.

[thunderhawk]

Originally Posted by X10A_Freedom

... Eventually, we will see 20+x DVD recorders, and only THEN would ...

That will never be then :?

If PC-dive developers invent a 32x DVD recorder, and if they would try to test it, then the DVD would break into 1 millions pieces :lol: ... believe me, they wont go higher than 16x....

[Rob]

Didn't they say the same thing about cd speeds. Now we have 40 odd times the original cd speed. :?:

[The Cyndicate]

Because they are not REALLY 40x.
Its just some bullshit number.

[AV_Integrated]

Here's the deal among people into video:

1. If you go into Best Buy, Circuit City... heck, Wal-Mart even, you are going to see a LOT of HDTVs. Almost all TVs these days are HD compatible. They are available under $1,000.00 and only non-flat panel TVs really are available en-mass in the non-HD old 4:3 format.

2. If you get an HDTV, then why would you want to spend $200.00+ on a DVD recorder that can't record HD material? That is the single thing that keeps me from buying a DVD-R.

3. DVDs were very popular FAR before recorders were available and recorders are still considered a fairly new technology with DVD. Blu-Ray is slated to come off the first production run with recording capabilities being STANDARD. This format isn't about just playing movies, it's about being able to record HD material as well.

4. If you have a HDTV then why would you not buy a player/recorder that would utilize your television to its maximum potential? I mean, DVD is very nice at 480p, but encoding artifacts are clearly visible in all discs and audio is limited. BD will maximize your viewing enjoyment, offers some level of future upgradability with new multi-layer discs and gives people more sound quality to go along with the HD viewing experience.

5. What is it... 2009 or so??? that all television stations are supposed to have switched over to an all digital format? This isn't about video games and PC backups, it's about the best damn video and audio available under the sun and being ready when technology demands it.

[AlexKx]

720p this question is steered toward you but all of you can are asked to give input. You said you think hundreds of titles will be available by a certain time. I have actually gone into this question in another post BUT do you or anyone else here think the movie companies will imediatly start to put their t.v. series and movie series on blu-ray to reduce the number of discs? This is one if not the main reason I am so hell bent about the release of this format (beside the higher quality features on everything). I also wonder if something like the Star Wars original trilogly released recently would be put out with all of its same features or if it would be updated in film and sound quality and maybe bonus material (since there were probably dozens and dozens of hours of material left off the latest release in my opinion). I am curious if such recent releases would be updated so soon.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by AlexKx

720p this question is steered toward you but all of you can are asked to give input. You said you think hundreds of titles will be available by a certain time. I have actually gone into this question in another post BUT do you or anyone else here think the movie companies will imediatly start to put their t.v. series and movie series on blu-ray to reduce the number of discs? This is one if not the main reason I am so hell bent about the release of this format (beside the higher quality features on everything).

I read an article with the president of Columbia Home Video who stated that an entire series of a TV show could fit on one Blu-ray disc. The very fact that he mentioned this makes me think it will happen. Now I can't say for certain which other studios will try this out in Blu-ray's earlier stages but I believe there will at least be a handful of TV series released this way within the first couple of years of the format. The drawback is that people tend to think they're getting a lot more when studios use multiple discs for TV series now. A lot of consumers like the "idea" of multiple discs and studios realize this and use it as a big marketing tool. As for myself I'd like to be able to buy a favorite TV show of mine and have it available on a single disc. It's not that I don't have the space to store a lot of movies it's just that some of those TV box sets look so big and bulky. I also hate the way boxes like The X-Files season sets open up.

I also wonder if something like the Star Wars original trilogy released recently would be put out with all of its same features or if it would be updated in film and sound quality and maybe bonus material (since there were probably dozens and dozens of hours of material left off the latest release in my opinion). I am curious if such recent releases would be updated so soon.

Will certainly the picture and audio quality will be far better in HD than on DVD's SD releases. However one only knows how many times George Lucas is going to alter his prized collection with new CGI. As for extras I'd bet they will be more plentiful than what's included on the current DVD releases. It's simply another marketing tool to get people to buy the same movies again. There's always going to be a lot of movies that get released in multiple versions, even on the same format. People really buy into special editions and extended versions. IIRC Lucas has already stated that the Star Wars trilogy would be released on an HD disc, "most likely Blu-ray" (his words, not mine) in 2006. IMO a lot of recent DVD releases will make their way to Blu-ray within the first 2-3 years.

[Rob]

Having a whole series of X-Files on one disc might be a useful idea, but you'll still only have SD dvd picture quality. Who's going to re-buy an X-Files boxset just because it comes on one disc? People buying tv/films on Blu-Ray will expect a hi-def 720p/1080p resolution. AS a 50GB dual layer Blu-Ray disc only holds 4.5 hrs of high-def material that would work out as 5 episodes per disc. Just one more episode.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Rob

Having a whole series of X-Files on one disc might be a useful idea, but you'll still only have SD dvd picture quality. Who's going to re-buy an X-Files boxset just because it comes on one disc? People buying tv/films on Blu-Ray will expect a hi-def 720p/1080p resolution.

I'd imagine no one will nor did I imply that anyone would. I was just using The X-Files as an example. The X-Files wasn't shot in HD but many newer shows are. Future seasons of Everybody Loves Raymond could be released on Blu-ray in HD. However an older 80's TV series could be fit onto one Blu-ray disc in its native SD. A show that's not available on DVD now could very well benefit from the one disc Blu-ray idea because no one's already bought the series on any format so it may sell quite well.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Rob

AS a 50GB dual layer Blu-Ray disc only holds 4.5 hrs of high-def material that would work out as 5 episodes per disc. Just one more episode.

Actually a total of 6 episodes of a typical 44 minute HD drama series would fit on one Blu-ray disc. A longer show like The Sopranos which ranges anywhere from 48-65 minutes per episode would be limited but not most series.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by 720p

Actually a total of 6 episodes of a typical 44 minute HD drama series would fit on one Blu-ray disc. A longer show like The Sopranos which ranges anywhere from 48-65 minutes per episode would be limited but not most series.

Was thinking the shows were almost an hour. Obvioucly there 42-44 mins without the ad breaks. Wasn't directing at you by the way. Thinking out loud as much as anything. However, tv shows shot in SD will be upconverted to hi-def for Blu-Ray release. Just as SD shows are upconverted to be shown on hi-def channels in USA. Seinfeld was recently re-mastered in hi-def for dvd. If they will do it for the dvd, surely they'll do it for the new hi-def discs.