Toshiba takes European lead over Sony in HD

[HDTV1080P]

Give it another 6 months and Blu-ray might start pulling ahead in Europe. Both formats are new to Europe and the format war has just begun. The format that launches first is not always the winner. VHS came out after BETA and one the war.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18013123/

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0114/t.4679.html

[Shu76]

This will change.

[Shin-Ra]

European indies, overall, reportedly account for about 30 percent of the movie market in the United Kingdom

Is this a joke article?

up to perhaps 50 percent in France, and about 35-40 percent in Germany and Spain.

'perhaps?' how's anyone supposed to take this seriously. They don't back up their claims against anything.

MSNBC - I wouldn't expect any better. It's telling that they choose to single out Sony.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Give it another 6 months and Blu-ray might start pulling ahead in Europe. Both formats are new to Europe and the format war has just begun. The format that launches first is not always the winner. VHS came out after BETA and one the war.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18013123/

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0114/t.4679.html

I saw these articles some time ago. They don't say the time period for this HD DVD lead. I have seen very similar articles, but they end with saying this could turn around with the launch of the PS3.

In other words, this sounds like a case of an old article being released later. Based on what was previously sold on both sides before the PS3 launched, Casino Royale alone should have sold enough copies to take the lead in Europe.

[GasCat]

Some European independent film makers signed an agreement with HD-DVD and we are seeing their press releases/marketing.

We need to know:
How many blu-ray players are there in Europe vs. HD-DVD players?
What are the movie sales figures in Europe (Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD)?

I can't find any numbers other than 35 HD-DVD films compared to 10 Blu film releases. It seems too early to say what is going on. The cost of Blu startup costs is the biggest problem.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...an-market.html

[Ascended_Saiyan]

I thought the costs were about the same to get into each format...just like the US (except in euros of course). Actually, I thought it was a little cheaper for Blu-ray (PS3, of course).

Did this change recently?

Edit: Sorry, I thought you were talking about player costs...not Indie production costs.

Doesn't that article sound like it was written before the PS3 launch? Is it just me?

[baccusboy]

This is the only part that concerns me:

"The cost of production is also an issue. Normal DVD production lines can be upgraded to produce HD-DVDs, whereas for Blu-Ray, companies need to buy completely new equipment.

"A HD-DVD replication line costs about €800,000 ($1m) and you can make 40,000 discs a day on it. A Blu-Ray replication line costs €1.7m or €1.8m and you can make 10,000 to 15,000 discs a day," says Laurent Villaume, chief executive of Qol, a French DVD replication company. "The risk is just not the same.""

[GasCat]

This is what shocked me in the article:

A recent report released by Sony showed that among the top ten movie titles for both HD DVD and Blu-ray sales for the week ending on March 18, 2007, three spots were held by movies that sold fewer than 1,000 units each. In fact, only one movie on the entire top ten list had five-figure sales digits at all, with the remaining nine titles adding up to a combined sales total of 12,430 units.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by GasCat

Some European independent film makers signed an agreement with HD-DVD and we are seeing their press releases/marketing.

We need to know:
How many blu-ray players are there in Europe vs. HD-DVD players?
What are the movie sales figures in Europe (Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD)?

I can't find any numbers other than 35 HD-DVD films compared to 10 Blu film releases. It seems too early to say what is going on. The cost of Blu startup costs is the biggest problem.

Didn't the site that keeps tracks of consoles say it was 870,000 PS3s in Europe?

About titles, you can check the Play.com and UK-German-French Amazons, and here's titles for Spain:

ZonaDVD list of 114 upcoming and released Blu-rays

ZonaDVD list of 57 upcoming and released HD DVDs

I'll try finding Italian, Portuguese, etc, equivalents

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by baccusboy

This is the only part that concerns me:

"The cost of production is also an issue. Normal DVD production lines can be upgraded to produce HD-DVDs, whereas for Blu-Ray, companies need to buy completely new equipment.

"A HD-DVD replication line costs about €800,000 ($1m) and you can make 40,000 discs a day on it. A Blu-Ray replication line costs €1.7m or €1.8m and you can make 10,000 to 15,000 discs a day," says Laurent Villaume, chief executive of Qol, a French DVD replication company. "The risk is just not the same.""

man for a moment I felt I was in another virtual site in 2006

[sccpu3d]

Well, I guess you can't win 'em all. Blu already pretty much has US and Japan. Pretty soon Universal will see that they can be making much more money by switching to blu, and blu will basically have every major studio. I guess hd-dvd can have those indie titles. I don't watch them and I probably don't want to watch them anyway.

I don't know a single person who watches indie films as a primary source of entertainment anyway. If they're going to watch any mainstream film, it's gotta come blu. :P

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by baccusboy

This is the only part that concerns me:

"The cost of production is also an issue. Normal DVD production lines can be upgraded to produce HD-DVDs, whereas for Blu-Ray, companies need to buy completely new equipment.

"A HD-DVD replication line costs about €800,000 ($1m) and you can make 40,000 discs a day on it. A Blu-Ray replication line costs €1.7m or €1.8m and you can make 10,000 to 15,000 discs a day," says Laurent Villaume, chief executive of Qol, a French DVD replication company. "The risk is just not the same.""

I thought this was debunked a while ago. If I remember correctly, the cost difference between retrofitting for HD DVD and buying new equipment for Blu-ray was a lot closer than most thought.

Couple that with the fact that it is cheaper to produce 25GB BD than it is to produce 30GB HD DVD and I see old information again. But, the cost of making a master and so forth is a lot more expensive from what I heard. I don't know if that is included in the overall cost per disc numbers. On a per GB basis, BD would be cheaper than 15GB or 30GB HD DVDs (if these numbers are correct).

Edit: Here are the actual setup costs in conjunction with the link listed above gives a different picture.

[Blackraven]

From my belief, I'm calling BS on that article it was done only this year.

With the PS3 launch and the successful sales of Casino Royale in PAL teritorries, Blu-ray has indeed regained the edge over HD-DUD.

I guess they're indeed living back to year 2006

[GasCat]

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

I thought this was debunked a while ago. If I remember correctly, the cost difference between retrofitting for HD DVD and buying new equipment for Blu-ray was a lot closer than most thought.

Couple that with the fact that it is cheaper to produce 25GB BD than it is to produce 30GB HD DVD and I see old information again. But, the cost of making a master and so forth is a lot more expensive from what I heard. I don't know if that is included in the overall cost per disc numbers. On a per GB basis, BD would be cheaper than 15GB or 30GB HD DVDs (if these numbers are correct).

Edit: Here are the actual setup costs in conjunction with the link listed above gives a different picture.

Great links we should find out how they are getting their production numbers. The prices are different in Europe. Maybe that is why? (No idea, just throwing it out there.)

[Rave<UK>]

Originally Posted by sccpu3d

. I guess hd-dvd can have those indie titles. I don't watch them and I probably don't want to watch them anyway.

I don't know a single person who watches indie films as a primary source of entertainment anyway. If they're going to watch any mainstream film, it's gotta come blu. :P

Isn't that a little narrow minded? There are some great movies out there that are produced independently, take El Laberinto del Fauno (English title: Pan's Labyrinth) for example, a true master piece that can match most Hollywood blockbusters for style & entertainment as well as being in a foreign language.

[phranctoast]

this is like porn when you think about it. A niche category that will be on HDDVD. These small studios dont have the money to produce on bluray. Same situation as the adult industry. These films also arent mainstream and very few people will notice this or even care. It will just be another bullet point for the crazies at avs forum to bring up!

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by phranctoast

this is like porn when you think about it. A niche category that will be on HDDVD. These small studios dont have the money to produce on bluray. Same situation as the adult industry. These films also arent mainstream and very few people will notice this or even care. It will just be another bullet point for the crazies at avs forum to bring up!

This is so not true. The US adult industry is making billions (I think it's 20, but don't hang me if it's wrong; the number is out of a respected magazine in Switzerland, so I don't have a link). I would call a 20 billion dollars industry pretty mainstream.

[Bullseye]

I have seen mainly only BR films in any stores here in Ireland. I think i have only seen a few HD titles. I suspect BR already has a lead here in EU.

[JTK]

How's the PS3 doing over in Europe these days?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by HDJK

This is so not true. The US adult industry is making billions (I think it's 20, but don't hang me if it's wrong; the number is out of a respected magazine in Switzerland, so I don't have a link). I would call a 20 billion dollars industry pretty mainstream.

Yes, but only a portion of that now is physical media. I believe Vivid or another company's CEO quoted the income for DVD at 40%, the rest was from download, VOD and other internet related material. That means the majority of their income will not be from DVD or a niche HD DVD or even BD.