MICHAEL COLLINS (Warner Archive) -- 2016

[MichaelR]

There's a thread in the U.K. area about an upcoming March 1 release of Neil Jordan's "Michael Collins" in a 20th anniversary edition:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=270209

I have confirmed with Warner Archive that they will be releasing the film domestically with a new transfer and extras (not sure whether the extras are new). The release date has not yet been determined, but it will be later this year.

[McCrutchy]

This disc is coming worldwide as well, so I wonder if Warner Archive is simply going to become the banner for Warner catalogue titles in the US from now on.

[cheez avenger]

Always liked this flick.

[Akijama]

I was sure that this will be released in March in the US, as well.

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

This disc is coming worldwide as well, so I wonder if Warner Archive is simply going to become the banner for Warner catalogue titles in the US from now on.

Yep. Aside from some really popular stuff such as Rush Hour 2, The Irong Giant, Hammer 2, eventual/potential The Police Academy set etc., it's quite reasonable to think that the majority of WB catalogue will be handled by WAC from now on.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

This disc is coming worldwide as well, so I wonder if Warner Archive is simply going to become the banner for Warner catalogue titles in the US from now on.

Pretty sad state of affairs, but it does look that way for the most part.

[MichaelR]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Pretty sad state of affairs, but it does look that way for the most part.

Why is it "sad"?

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by MichaelR

Why is it "sad"?

I've gone over this before, but when a studio goes from releasing things widely to all major retailers, to a more niche distribution it's clearly due to poor sales. Something like this, The Big Sleep, Key Largo, The Wrong Man, etc. would easily be a wide release in past years. Now it's under WAC? That's unfortunate. This isn't a reflection of quality, I'm sure it will be perfectly fine, it's more about the fact that these films will get a little less exposure than if they were announced through WHV directly.

[tallrichard]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I've gone over this before, but when a studio goes from releasing things widely to all major retailers, to a more niche distribution it's clearly due to poor sales. Something like this, The Big Sleep, Key Largo, The Wrong Man, etc. would easily be a wide release in past years. Now it's under WAC? That's unfortunate. This isn't a reflection of quality, I'm sure it will be perfectly fine, it's more about the fact that these films will get a little less exposure than if they were announced through WHV directly.

The studios are doing it this way because they feel they can capture more of the profit...

In the 90s, the studio would price "New Releases" at $110.00 on VHS so they could control the market. Consumers rented the movies because they couldn't afford to buy them...this is just another way for them to control the market and capitalize on the profits.

[James Luckard]

Everyone can thank me for this great film being announced on BD, I recently bought the Warner Archive 16:9 DVD to replace my ancient 4:3 DVD and watched it two nights ago, thus ensuring it would end up getting a release announced right after, lol. Guess I'll be rebuying it again soon. Can't complain though, I never expected this forgotten classic to make it to BD.

I'm a fan of the original poster art, which had to be dropped after the IRA ceasefire broke down and violence erupted, causing the film's release to be shifted to later in the year.

[Show spoiler]

The replacement is moody, but doesn't give any idea what the film is about:

[Show spoiler]

[mja345]

Originally Posted by tallrichard

The studios are doing it this way because they feel they can capture more of the profit...

In the 90s, the studio would price "New Releases" at $110.00 on VHS so they could control the market. Consumers rented the movies because they could afford to buy them...this is just another way for them to control the market and capitalize on the profits.

It also signals that Warner Archive is going to start releasing more and more titles on BD in the next few years IMO. And that's good news for any collector. Warner Archive is sitting on an absolute goldmine of titles and almost every one of their BD releases has been stellar. Warner Archive is going to release almost the same amount of BDs in two months this year as they released all of last year. And, let's be honest, collectors are moving further away from the brick and mortar stores. A lot of films are mostly available online anyway, so I'm more than content with more and more titles being passed on to Warner Archive.

[MichaelR]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I've gone over this before, but when a studio goes from releasing things widely to all major retailers, to a more niche distribution it's clearly due to poor sales. Something like this, The Big Sleep, Key Largo, The Wrong Man, etc. would easily be a wide release in past years. Now it's under WAC? That's unfortunate. This isn't a reflection of quality, I'm sure it will be perfectly fine, it's more about the fact that these films will get a little less exposure than if they were announced through WHV directly.

The "quality" issue is precisely why I find this development anything but "sad". Had this release (or others you mentioned) been produced by WHV for wide release as in past years, it's possible -- even likely -- that the discs would have been characterized by old transfers, low bitrates and a lack of commitment to porting over extras. Where WHV's catalog output has been erratic at best, WAC's has been consistently superior and, for the most part, excellent.

Now, I agree that the lack of wide sales potential for catalog titles is unfortunate, but that's the market reality. The important point is how studios deal with such limitations. WAC's ability to turn a profit on these titles, while maintaining a commitment to quality, stands in sharp contrast to the approach of, e.g., Sony or Paramount, whose catalog output has slowed to a trickle. (And Paramount just recycles old material.)

One thing to bear in mind is that "the major retailers" refuse to stock most of these catalog releases. It's not as if Warner doesn't want to sell them at Wal-Mart, Target and Best Buy. Those vendors simply won't order the product. (An exception, for reasons about which one can only speculate, is "Strange Brew" -- which is why that title is being released through WHV.)

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by tallrichard

The studios are doing it this way because they feel they can capture more of the profit...

In the 90s, the studio would price "New Releases" at $110.00 on VHS so they could control the market. Consumers rented the movies because they could afford to buy them...this is just another way for them to control the market and capitalize on the profits.

Wrong. If that were the case they would have had a huge output of WAC BD titles years ago. WAC is like Warner's own Twilight Time, in the sense that like Sony, Fox, etc.. they dont feel they could get enough return by mass producing a title for a wide release, so they print up just enough in a limited distribution to protect themselves from any significant losses. Has nothing to do with controlling the market.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by MichaelR

The "quality" issue is precisely why I find this development anything but "sad". Had this release (or others you mentioned) been produced by WHV for wide release as in past years, it's possible -- even likely -- that the discs would have been characterized by old transfers, low bitrates and a lack of commitment to porting over extras. Where WHV's catalog output has been erratic at best, WAC's has been consistently superior and, for the most part, excellent.

Now, I agree that the lack of wide sales potential for catalog titles is unfortunate, but that's the market reality. The important point is how studios deal with such limitations. WAC's ability to turn a profit on these titles, while maintaining a commitment to quality, stands in sharp contrast to the approach of, e.g., Sony or Paramount, whose catalog output has slowed to a trickle. (And Paramount just recycles old material.)

One thing to bear in mind is that "the major retailers" refuse to stock most of these catalog releases. It's not as if Warner doesn't want to sell them at Wal-Mart, Target and Best Buy. Those vendors simply won't order the product. (An exception, for reasons about which one can only speculate, is "Strange Brew" -- which is why that title is being released through WHV.)

I agree. I'm not blaming Warner, I'm glad they're still trying something rather than throwing in the towel like some studios seem to have done. If retailers don't want many (if any) catalog titles stocked there isn't a whole lot they can do about it. Me saying it's a sad state of affairs is a reflection of how the industry as a whole has panned out of late, not specifically Warner.

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by MichaelR

The "quality" issue is precisely why I find this development anything but "sad". Had this release (or others you mentioned) been produced by WHV for wide release as in past years, it's possible -- even likely -- that the discs would have been characterized by old transfers, low bitrates and a lack of commitment to porting over extras. Where WHV's catalog output has been erratic at best, WAC's has been consistently superior and, for the most part, excellent.

Now, I agree that the lack of wide sales potential for catalog titles is unfortunate, but that's the market reality. The important point is how studios deal with such limitations. WAC's ability to turn a profit on these titles, while maintaining a commitment to quality, stands in sharp contrast to the approach of, e.g., Sony or Paramount, whose catalog output has slowed to a trickle. (And Paramount just recycles old material.)

One thing to bear in mind is that "the major retailers" refuse to stock most of these catalog releases. It's not as if Warner doesn't want to sell them at Wal-Mart, Target and Best Buy. Those vendors simply won't order the product. (An exception, for reasons about which one can only speculate, is "Strange Brew" -- which is why that title is being released through WHV.)

I'm not so sure that WAC is responsible anymore. I have seen a few releases from WHV that look suspiciously like "WAC encodes", particularly these:



Now these are not mastered to 35.00 Mbps, but of course, neither is every WAC disc, except for several that have been produced for the US only, These upcoming Warner Archive BDs look more like WHV BDs that are getting limited distribution via WAC in North America, and going wide via WHV in Europe and Japan.

It's possible that someone at WAC wanted to oversee the mastering of these catalog titles, possibly to make sure that they were done properly, but then, it's rather unclear who is ultimately responsible for making encoding decisions at WB/MPI lately. Even new releases do not match up, like these:



Vacation, which is shorter and in 2.40:1, received a more generous encode than The Intern which is longer and 1.78:1, and this in spite of the fact that the former film received terrible reviews and did very poorly at the box office. I can also see already that Black Mass is in the middle of these two, but that film contains unexpectedly lengthy extras, and almost 45 GB of the disc is used.

None of this is a bad thing, of course, but I think that praising WAC for encoding these upcoming titles (The Big Sleep, Key Largo, I Confess, The Wrong Man and now Michael Collins) is, at this point, premature, when the responsibility most likely lies with someone at WHV or MPI. Certainly, I don't believe that WAC's mandate has been extended beyond the US (and possibly Canada), so I doubt they could add the foreign language support without the approval of WHV anyway,

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

I'm not so sure that WAC is responsible anymore. I have seen a few releases from WHV that look suspiciously like "WAC encodes", particularly these:



Now these are not mastered to 35.00 Mbps, but of course, neither is every WAC disc, except for several that have been produced for the US only, These upcoming Warner Archive BDs look more like WHV BDs that are getting limited distribution via WAC in North America, and going wide via WHV in Europe and Japan.

It's possible that someone at WAC wanted to oversee the mastering of these catalog titles, possibly to make sure that they were done properly, but then, it's rather unclear who is ultimately responsible for making encoding decisions at WB/MPI lately. Even new releases do not match up, like these:



Vacation, which is shorter and in 2.40:1, received a more generous encode than The Intern which is longer and 1.78:1, and this in spite of the fact that the former film received terrible reviews and did very poorly at the box office. I can also see already that Black Mass is in the middle of these two, but that film contains unexpectedly lengthy extras, and almost 45 GB of the disc is used.

None of this is a bad thing, of course, but I think that praising WAC for encoding these upcoming titles (The Big Sleep, Key Largo, I Confess, The Wrong Man and now Michael Collins) is, at this point, premature, when the responsibility most likely lies with someone at WHV or MPI. Certainly, I don't believe that WAC's mandate has been extended beyond the US (and possibly Canada), so I doubt they could add the foreign language support without the approval of WHV anyway,

The Intern did not perform poorly, it grossed almost $200 million worldwide and had a production cost of $35 million. The film was one of the few bright spots the studio had in 2015, in a poor year.

[Akijama]

It's probably coming in March after all, since it's just got announced.

MICHAEL COLLINS
(1996)
Color-132 Min.
BD-50
1.78:1, 16x9 LETTERBOX
DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 SURROUND - English
Subtitles: English SDH; Francais & Espanol
SPECIAL FEATURES:
Theatrical Trailer (HD)
Commentary by Neil Jordan
In Conversation with Neil Jordan
Deleted Scenes
The South Bank Show documentary with Neil Jordan Interview and Actual Footage of Michael Collins

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

The Intern did not perform poorly, it grossed almost $200 million worldwide and had a production cost of $35 million. The film was one of the few bright spots the studio had in 2015, in a poor year.

I said "the former film", meaning Vacation, not The Intern.

That was the point. It may not have mattered, but the reality is that Vacation has a generous encode, much like a recent WHV catalog title (or these upcoming WAC/WHV releases) and The Intern got an encode that recalls WHV BD-25 releases.

[BarnDoor]

Well any later than March or April and Warner would really be missing the boat, all things considered.

[MichaelR]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

That was the point. It may not have mattered, but the reality is that Vacation has a generous encode, much like a recent WHV catalog title (or these upcoming WAC/WHV releases) and The Intern got an encode that recalls WHV BD-25 releases.

And none of that has anything to do with catalog titles like "Michael Collins". Catalog and new releases proceed along an entirely different workflow path at Warner and are overseen by different people.

[oildude]

Michael Collins is a helluva movie. Very interesting story, and Liam Neeson's best performance after Schindler's List. So glad this is getting a blu-ray release. I was one of the apparent few who voted for it during the recent WAC poll.