DTS-HD Master Audio: Theoretical Question

[Jodi]

I need the big brains on this one:
Is it theoretically possible to eventually download DTS-HD Master Audio in a future firmware upgrade? It dosen't matter if you own a Sony or a Panny or a Sammy......could we see DTS-HD MA in a future firmware upgrade?

Jodi

[devils3023]

yes

[WriteSimply]

Depends on the hardware you want to download the firmware into. Current hardware can't. If the current hardware meet the requirement then even if out of the box it's not there, it can be upgraded.


fuad

[WickyWoo]

Yes you can, you just need to burn a CD first instead of having a direct net upgrade. All hardware can hypothetically be patched to include any codec you want as long as there's enough flash ROM for it (I bet there is in most) and it has the horsepower (if it has enough for TruHD, should have enough for DTSMA)

[Sir Terrence]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Yes you can, you just need to burn a CD first instead of having a direct net upgrade. All hardware can hypothetically be patched to include any codec you want as long as there's enough flash ROM for it (I bet there is in most) and it has the horsepower (if it has enough for TruHD, should have enough for DTSMA)

Not necessarily. DtsMA processes the audio much differently than Dolby does. With a single stream of Dts MA lossless you can access the core Dts signals(1.5mbps) Dts HD, and Dts MA lossless. Dolby is incapable of that kind of audio scaling. This requires a very accurate high bit processing which is probably the reason its late to the game. Whenver a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack is including on a disc, a accompaying DD+ soundtrack must also be included for backwards compatibility. This requires alot less processing power, and combined with the lossless packing of DVD-audio incorporated as part of the format, it was much easier to bring to market.

[Chad Varnadore]

I don't believe the Panny can handle internal decoding of DTS MA without a hardware upgrade, but some players probably can. If they support HDMI 1.3 it may be less likely that they'll go that route though, rather than bitstreaming to an AVR.

[Jodi]

Originally Posted by Chad Varnadore

I don't believe the Panny can handle internal decoding of DTS MA without a hardware upgrade, but some players probably can. If they support HDMI 1.3 it may be less likely that they'll go that route though, rather than bitstreaming to an AVR.

Chad,
I think the Blu-Ray player that I am planning to get is the Panny DMP-BD10A.
I know it can internally decode DTS-HD High Resolution audio, and I know that it CANNOT internally decode DTS-HD Master Audio straight out of the box.
I believe that I will be upgrading my current receiver (a rather archaic Pioneer Elite AV receiver) to the upcoming Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH (which has HDMI 1.3a and WILL decode DTS-HD Master Audio). This receiver comes out in late June with a $1000 price tag.
Chad, I also wanted to let you know that I currently own a Sony BRAVIA KDL-V32XBR2 32" LCD TV, which has only 1 HDMI input. It has a native resolution of 720 (hence, 720p).
Please let me know what you think, in a purely technological sense, of pairing the Panny to the above mentioned components.

Jodi

[WickyWoo]

Not necessarily. DtsMA processes the audio much differently than Dolby does. With a single stream of Dts MA lossless you can access the core Dts signals(1.5mbps) Dts HD, and Dts MA lossless. Dolby is incapable of that kind of audio scaling. This requires a very accurate high bit processing which is probably the reason its late to the game. Whenver a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack is including on a disc, a accompaying DD+ soundtrack must also be included for backwards compatibility. This requires alot less processing power, and combined with the lossless packing of DVD-audio incorporated as part of the format, it was much easier to bring to market.

It's just a matter of setting it to what bitstream, or part of the bitstram you want. It's essentially a zip file

As I said. Assuming the hardware has the horses, there' no reason why it wouldn't work

[ClaytonMG]

Wait... So is the Dolby Digital track for Ghost Rider not just the "core" of the Dolby TrueHD track? Since there isn't a seperate option for Dolby Digital... I could've sworn I read that for Blu-Ray, a Dolby Digital core must be included in Dolby TrueHD tracks...

[blackpixels]

Originally Posted by Chad Varnadore

I don't believe the Panny can handle internal decoding of DTS MA without a hardware upgrade, but some players probably can. If they support HDMI 1.3 it may be less likely that they'll go that route though, rather than bitstreaming to an AVR.

It sounds much like the early launch of DVD when players internally decoded DD (AC3) and then in newer generations they moved away from that function to allow the AVR's to process the bitstream data as some wanted better processing. No?

[WickyWoo]

It sounds much like the early launch of DVD when players internally decoded DD (AC3) and then in newer gernations they moved away from that function to allow the AVR's to process the bitstream data as some wanted better processing. No?

DACs are expensive, so it's a natural cost cutting move. Before they can eliminate analog outs, there needs to be sub-$400 recievers with HDMI 1.3 and DDTHD and DTSMA

[ProvenFlipper]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Wait... So is the Dolby Digital track for Ghost Rider not just the "core" of the Dolby TrueHD track? Since there isn't a seperate option for Dolby Digital... I could've sworn I read that for Blu-Ray, a Dolby Digital core must be included in Dolby TrueHD tracks...

You sir, are correct. There can be a separate track, but it's often included in the TrueHD track.

[Chad Varnadore]

Originally Posted by blackpixels

It sounds much like the early launch of DVD when players internally decoded DD (AC3) and then in newer gernations they moved away from that function to allow the AVR's to process the bitstream data as some wanted better processing. No?

I think internal decoding may be more common with BD. For PIP interactivity commentaries and such, the audio tracks need to be mixed in the playback device. At least that's the way it is with HD DVD. Maybe Sun will come up with a better alternative.

[Chad Varnadore]

Originally Posted by Jodi

Chad,
I think the Blu-Ray player that I am planning to get is the Panny DMP-BD10A.
I know it can internally decode DTS-HD High Resolution audio, and I know that it CANNOT internally decode DTS-HD Master Audio straight out of the box.
I believe that I will be upgrading my current receiver (a rather archaic Pioneer Elite AV receiver) to the upcoming Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH (which has HDMI 1.3a and WILL decode DTS-HD Master Audio). This receiver comes out in late June with a $1000 price tag.
Chad, I also wanted to let you know that I currently own a Sony BRAVIA KDL-V32XBR2 32" LCD TV, which has only 1 HDMI input. It has a native resolution of 720 (hence, 720p).
Please let me know what you think, in a purely technological sense, of pairing the Panny to the above mentioned components.

Jodi

It should work, if the BD10A supports HDMI 1.3 as well. The BD10 doesn't.

Using a 720p display, there may be a significant advantage with the Samsung BDP1200, as it features HQV's Reon chip for deinterlacing and scaling, which is one of the best solutions on the market for both BD and DVD. HQV should insure the conversion to 720p is as lossless as possible. The Samsung also supports HDMI 1.3. But, I don't believe it supports bitstreaming DTS MA yet.

I've loved the reliability of Panasonic's player and their proactive firmware support. And will keep them in mind in the future when it's time to upgrade because of such. But, if I were buying now, I'd probably go with the newest Samsung or Sony. And due to HQV, the Samsung would seem the better choice for 720p - maybe even for 1080p/60 as well.

[Jodi]

Originally Posted by Chad Varnadore

It should work, if the BD10A supports HDMI 1.3 as well. The BD10 doesn't.

Using a 720p display, there may be a significant advantage with the Samsung BDP1200, as it features HQV's Reon chip for deinterlacing and scaling, which is one of the best solutions on the market for both BD and DVD. HQV should insure the conversion to 720p is as lossless as possible. The Samsung also supports HDMI 1.3. But, I don't believe it supports bitstreaming DTS MA yet.

I've loved the reliability of Panasonic's player and their proactive firmware support. And will keep them in mind in the future when it's time to upgrade because of such. But, if I were buying now, I'd probably go with the newest Samsung or Sony. And due to HQV, the Samsung would seem the better choice for 720p - maybe even for 1080p/60 as well.

Thanks Chad for your response.
It sounds like the Sammy 1200 may be the answer. I'm glad that I mentioned about my TV having 720p as it's native resolution, and because I did, you helped make things clearer for me.
Also, I'm glad that I have read lots of great reviews on the Sammy (both with BDs and with upscaling DVDs).

Jodi

[desmond]

ps3 is the only one that i am sure can be upgraded to a gen 3 player since it uses very soft codecs.

[blackpixels]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

DACs are expensive, so it's a natural cost cutting move. Before they can eliminate analog outs, there needs to be sub-$400 recievers with HDMI 1.3 and DDTHD and DTSMA

True. I don't believe I've ever bought a sub-$400 rcvr that could do what I wanted it to do (hell for that matter I spent more on my cleanline). My problem is that I'm a typical mid-fi guy and just not patient like most I guess. It still pisses me off how the industry is leveraging HDMI interfacing.

[desmond]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

DACs are expensive, so it's a natural cost cutting move. Before they can eliminate analog outs, there needs to be sub-$400 recievers with HDMI 1.3 and DDTHD and DTSMA

fyi... DAC''s are not used for TrueHD to PCM conversion since it is digital to digital. I believe that DTS HD MA will work the same way. This is the reason players are doing this conversion and not the receiver also receiver will apply dsp to pcm. Receiver DAC's are still used and need to be at least decent.

[blackpixels]

Originally Posted by desmond

fyi... DAC''s are not used for TrueHD to PCM conversion since it is digital to digital. I believe that DTS HD MA will work the same way. This is the reason players are doing this conversion and not the receiver also receiver will apply dsp to pcm. Receiver DAC's are still used and need to be at least decent.

Frankly, I'm really not that clear on this thing - still - and I've read up on it. It's clear as mud after trying to cifer all the information and thread inputs. First of all, I'm not clear on why you can't recieve the bitstream via coax or optical since this is how DD/DTS signals are passed and processed at the rcvr. You have the option to remove DSP from the PCM signal and listen in stereo or is that a processed signal as well? How are you getting TrueHD/DTSHDMA passed through as a digital signal via RCA's? Am I the only one that really not that clear on this? My apologies if I am...lol

When first gen players where launched they provided DD/DTS processing from the player because many only had two channel amps/rcvrs. So when rcvrs hit the market with built-in DD/DTS processors it would have been redundent to have them in both piece of equipment. So with that said; if the player passes the signal then you're recevier would have to process the stream...understood...but...if the player is processing the signal before outputting it to the receiver are you not in fact you're going from Digital to Analog output? How is it that one can take advantage to some degreee of TrueHD/DTSHDMA without a compatible receiver? Again, please excuse my mind block...

[desmond]

the only way to pass 8/6 channel pcm is through hdmi, optical lacks the bandwidth hence without the hdmi receiver you cannot take advantage of new lossless formats (True HD works on my ps3). However receiver needs only hdmi 1.1 (ability to recieve multi-channel pcm). If you are using optical the player will send legacy bitstream to the processor (Dolby 5.1 or DTS like dvd).
Keep in mind uncompressed TrueHD is exactly the same as the pcm thus both tracks sound the same.

hope this helps.