Big Daddy, Bi or Dipolar info, please.

[JimShaw]

Big Daddy

Need your thoughts regarding my rear speakers

I read your thread regarding Bi and Dipole speakers and found it highly interesting but I still do not know which might be best for my surrounds.

Can you give me a little advice regarding using Bi, Di or Direct speakers?

I have a 6.2 in-ceiling system using direct-radiating speakers and would like to improve its sound if it is possible but here is my problem...

The family room for listening to surrounds and watching TV is 16 feet long. The TV is on one end of the room and the couch for viewing and listening is on the other. The couch is up against a wall and that wall is all glass windows. I have three speakers as my surrounds and rear surrounds inline in the ceiling directly above the seating area. I can't place any speakers on the back wall because it is glass and I have a left wall only. There isn't a right wall because the right side opens into the kitchen area.

I was told by and “expert” at a hi-end speaker store that I would get a better surround sound if I were to change out the three direct-radiating speakers for two Di or Bipole speakers changing my system to a 5.2. He said the pole speakers would give me a much fuller sound in the room because I am not able to place any speakers behind the seating area or on the side walls.

In your experience, would you suggest the same? Pulling out the three direct speakers above and placing with two Dipole or Bipole speakers OR the change would not make that great of a difference in sound. Therefore, leave the direct speakers as they are saving $$$ for more Blu purchases?

[Big Daddy]

In order to take advantage of dipole speakers, you need to sit in their null spot so that you experience the maximum advantage of the diffuse sound dipole speakers are known for. That limits their flexibility for placement. The best location for dipole speakes is to the sides of the listener. Furthermore, since dipole speakers have a positive side (in phase driver) and a negative side (out of phase driver), you need to be careful about placing them to the right or left.

Bipole speakers give you more flexibility in placement. Because their drivers are in phase, you can place them to the side or rear. You can also attach them to the ceiling. Bipole speakers can be used as front speakers and they fill the room with sound and give you a great experience, particularly in home theater applications. In addition, bipole speakers have better bass response than dipole speakers.

All Definitive Technology BP series tower speakers are bipole. Def Tech makes great bipole surround speakers, but they are a bit expensive. They also make in-wall speakers.

Edit: If your requirement is to have in-wall speakers, don't bother with upgrading your front speakers with bipoles. However, if you are willing to have big bad tower speakers, I highly recommend bipole speakers. You can upgrade your in-wall surround speakers, but I am not sure how much of an improvement better in-wall surround speakers will give you.

[RocShemp]

So I take it surround back speakers should never be dipoles?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

So I take it surround back speakers should never be dipoles?

Any speaker can go anywhere that you want, but to receive the maximum benefit from dipole speakers, it is best to follow the following diagrams:

[JimShaw]

Because I do not have a wall on both the left and right side of my couch, from what I am reading, the only possibility would be bipole speakers in the ceiling above the couch. Do you think two bipoles above would improve the sound over three directs above??

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

Because I do not have a wall on both the left and right side of my couch, from what I am reading, the only possibility would be bipole speakers in the ceiling above the couch. Do you think two bipoles above would improve the sound over three directs above??

16 feet is long, can you move your couch forward about 18in and put 2 speakers behind the couch? The speakers can go on some nice stands.

[jomari]

hello jim,

id like to try to assist you as well, and put in my two cents so to speak.

Id consider the bipoles to be a better option, due to its flexibility and your current room limitations.

Can you show us a brief picture of the room? you can add that on the gallery section so we can see it (some of us are at work, and cant due to filters)

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by HAMP

16 feet is long, can you move your couch forward about 18in and put 2 speakers behind the couch? The speakers can go on some nice stands.

Sorry, no can do.

I have the wife factor. I can do just about anything I want as long as the speakers, sub, etc. are hidden and out of the way. The reason is twice a week we have between 20-28 seniors over for dinner and we need every inch of room available in that area which means in the ceiling speakers. My wife works hard trying to keep that area nice for entertaining and I do not want to stick my hobby in on her area of enjoyment. Which leads me to trying to get the best sound I can working with-in the parameters that makes a happy home.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by jomari

hello jim,

id like to try to assist you as well, and put in my two cents so to speak.

Id consider the bipoles to be a better option, due to its flexibility and your current room limitations.

Can you show us a brief picture of the room? you can add that on the gallery section so we can see it (some of us are at work, and cant due to filters)

Today, I'll take a few shots and get them up but it will be awhile before I can get to it.

[jomari]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

Sorry, no can do.

I have the wife factor. I can do just about anything I want as long as the speakers, sub, etc. are hidden and out of the way. The reason is twice a week we have between 20-28 seniors over for dinner and we need every inch of room available in that area which means in the ceiling speakers. My wife works hard trying to keep that area nice for entertaining and I do not want to stick my hobby in on her area of enjoyment. Which leads me to trying to get the best sound I can working with-in the parameters that makes a happy home.

thats very nice of you to be so considerate to the wife, and for doing such great things for the elder folk.

will await for the pictures...

[JimShaw]

I drew a layout and I hope is good enough to give an understanding.



http://www.bestfloorsrus.com/Blu-ray...mily%20001.JPG

[jomari]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

I drew a layout and I hope is good enough to give an understanding.

http://www.bestfloorsrus.com/Blu-ray...mily%20001.JPG

thanks for posting the sketch... i guess my question would be,

out of your current setup, how do you feel about it? whats your current experience, and what do you feel you want more from it?

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by jomari

thanks for posting the sketch... i guess my question would be,

out of your current setup, how do you feel about it? whats your current experience, and what do you feel you want more from it?

I like my set up and I know that I am limited to what can be accomplished but I am always trying to make the sound better and when an "expert" told me that di or bipole speakers would give me a fuller sound, I was very interested.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

Because I do not have a wall on both the left and right side of my couch, from what I am reading, the only possibility would be bipole speakers in the ceiling above the couch. Do you think two bipoles above would improve the sound over three directs above??

Bipole speakers will probably give you better surround effect than direct surround speakers. You don't always need a wall to attach speakers. You can hang them from the ceiling. I have four side bipolar surround speakers and two rear surround speakers. Three of them are attached to the ceiling with brackets, two are attached to the ceiling with chains, and only one is attached to the side wall. Their heights are approximately the same. The two rear speakers have nine drivers each facing toward the back wall.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Bipole speakers will probably give you better surround effect than direct surround speakers. You don't always need a wall to attach speakers. You can hang them from the ceiling. I have four side bipolar surround speakers and two rear surround speakers. Three of them are attached to the ceiling with brackets, two are attached to the ceiling with chains, and only one is attached to the side wall. Their heights are approximately the same. The two rear speakers have nine drivers each facing toward the back wall.

9 drivers?? That must something to hear.

Thanks for the info. It looks like I will do some upgrading.

Is this the best scenario: Swap out the three direct rear speakers for two Bipoles and not worry about the direct that is actually a back surround directly above the seating area?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

9 drivers?? That must something to hear.

Thanks for the info. It looks like I will do some upgrading.

Is this the best scenario: Swap out the three direct rear speakers for two Bipoles and not worry about the direct that is actually a back surround directly above the seating area?

If they are directly above your head, two bipolar speakers will be enough as each bipolar radiates sound in two directions and between the two speakers, they should fill the room.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Bipole will probably give you better surround effect than direct surround speakers. You don't always need a wall to attach speakers. You can hang them from the ceiling. I have four side bipolar surround speakers and two rear surround speakers back. Three of them are attached to the ceiling with brackets, two are attached to the ceiling with chains, and only one is attached to the side wall. Their heights are approximately the same. The two rear speakers have nine drivers each facing toward the back wall.

Now I know why you tried to get me to hang my subs

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

Now I know why you tried to get me to hang my subs

Four subwoofers hung from the ceiling will work for single guys who live in an apartment or condo. For the married people, it will get them killed by the WAF. The sad part is that she can file for "Justifiable Homocide" and most juries will agree.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Four subwoofers hung from the ceiling will work for single guys who live in an apartment or condo. For the married people, it will get them killed by the WAF. The sad part is that she can file for "Justifiable Homocide" and most juries will agree.

I'll just have to make sure I stay single

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

If they are directly above your head, two bipolar speakers will be enough as each bipolar radiates sound in two directions and between the two speakers, they should fill the room.

A big thanks for all your help