Anyone have any experience with a Cineversum BlackWing1

[loco]

Hi there, I'm in the market for a new 1080p projector and the local dealer is bent on selling me a Cineversum blackwing1. I personally like the sharpness of DLP but dont want to deal with rainbows. And since there're no serious LED Dlp's available at this moment, the DILA looks like the next best thing. What i want to know is, does anyone here have eyeball experience with the cineversum blackwing1? is it better than an RS10 or an RS20(which btw can be had for $6500). any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

PS. My total budget for a projector and screen is about $10K. and I want atleast a 110" screen.

[Trogdor2010]

From what I heard, the Cineversum Blackwing1 is basically a JVC RS1 clone, but with different calibration modes. I have not seen it in action, but from a reference in value, I personally would go with the JVC RS20, the brightness of the technical area may not be considered bright, but it is actually brighter than most projectors when calibrated properly (most manufacturers state a possible lumens, but most of them lie). I'm a DLP fan, and for that much money, I would get a Samsung SP-A800B (Joe Kane's reference projector), but I see you don't like the Rainbow effect so that won't count.

[loco]

thanks for the reply Trogdor. Spec-wise the blackwing1 has more calibration options (basically a color management system) that the rs10 lacks. Also i believe it has a different lens(still need to confirm that one). I was interested in finding out if anyone had any eyeball experience. I mean is the improvement in picture worth $2k more than the rs10.
Belonging to the xbox generation i prefer the brightness and the color pop of DLPs. But dont want to deal with the rainbows. My dream projector would be a sim2 c3x 1080p, but my woman would slap me around if i even mentioned its name anywhere near her. Infact I would love to own a single chip DLP that was lit with LEDs. That would give me the perfect picture at the price i want. But I imagine there's a while to wait for that dream to come true.
Maybe new dlps have improved, its just so hard to get a demo of the exact product you want to buy. A sim2 domino d60 or d80 would be cool to check out as well.

my total budget for a home theater is about 18~20k. I'm thinking a rotel rsx1560 or separates maybe (rsp1570 + rmb1575) and B&W 683s, which would set me back about $7k and then I'd have about $10k left for video.

[Trogdor2010]

It would be worth going for the RS20 since that has a Color management system also but it may not be as sophisticated (I have not tried it, well since I live in a rural area) but it should be very accurate when calibrated, and that JVC has a stated 50,000:1 native contrast ratio, It is stated lower on some measurements, but it is better than previous JVC projectors and therefore, should be better than the Cineversum Blackwing. Single chip DLP projectors have been using faster color wheels to reduce Rainbow effect. Three chip designs do not need a color wheel but are extremely expensive due to difficulty of convergience with the chips (The cheapest 3 chip DLP is still in the $10K range and is a 720p projector), that is why they still make 1 chip designs. The Samsung SP-A800B projector is a single DLP chip projector, but is considered one of the best consumer projectors despite some consider "poor" choices, since it uses a Darkchip 2 chipset, and this was criticized because even modern projectors that are far cheaper use Darkchip 3 and Darkchip 4. This was intentional buy Joe Kane to preserve shadow detail that was not achievable by Darkchip 3 and Dark chip 4 sets (There is a new projector, the SP-A900 that uses a Dark chip 4 set that cost $13000, $3000 more than the A800B, which does cost $10000.), it also uses a 5x speed 6 segment color wheel, which is faster than most DLP sets, but a select number of people may notice Rainbow effect, and the Optoma HD80 which is far cheaper than the Samsung, uses a 6X speed 7 segment color wheel. Tech specs may scare you off from the projector, but think of this, the Samsung is a videophile projector, that is more concern if the picture looks like it was intended, not for the tech specs or contrast. I would personally would love to own this projector, but I don't have the money. Considering your needs however, you would be more satisfied with a JVC d-ila projector and hire a calibrator to adjust the color and grayscale and it could be just as accurate as the Samsung, and the Samsung is only found in select local dealers.

[Brain Sturgeon]

From various discussions at AVS, CineVersum basically rebadges JVC/Sony products with a fancy case and very little else (if anything), and then charges a 4k premium for it (depending on the current US/Euro exchange rate).

This is a thread discussing the BlackWing2 that basically exposed it for what it was-- a rebadged JVC RS-2:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793082

Their marketing folks have claimed that they add various features in software, like a CMS, to the OEM'd projectors, but the folks who have actually looked at the units report that the menus on these units are identical to their JVC counterparts, even identifying the projector as an "RS-x" series. From what people have been able to tell, they're spouting marketing BS.

I believe the BlackWing1 uses Sony SXRD panels, but I suspect the MO would be the same. Very little value added except for the fancy case.

Save your cash and stick with the JVC RS series. Heck, you can spend the 4k on the VP like a Radiance if you wanted truly complete CMS and gamma control, as well as a top notch scalar and a variety of other features.

[loco]

many thanks for the detailed feedback gentlemen, may your she-camels bear a thousand offspring. After this discussion I think i'm going to stick to an RS20. Although i'm gonna try to manage a store demo of the sim2 c3x 720 and a sim2 domino d80, just to see if the high tech color wheel might have finally solved the rainbow issue.
The Radiance seems like a great product, but for arguments' sake, if all the calibration option are available on the RS20 why would anyone spend 4k on a scalar? I guess if you watch a lot of TV and DVDs on the projector then it makes a lot of sense. Personally I dont watch TV unless there're major sports events on, and dont have much of a DVD collection either, I'm gonna use the projector mostly for Bluray. But then i'm ignorant, there could be a million benefits of a scalar that I have no clue about.
But 4k is 4k, no arguing about that. Perhaps I could fit a Crestron setup for the theater in that much. That way it'll be more accessible to others in the house. The home theater hobby is pretty anti social as it is. Or maybe B&W 700s, the local dealer said he still had a final pair of 700s that he could give me a good deal on.

PS. nice home theater brain, how did u convince the wife?

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by loco

many thanks for the detailed feedback gentlemen, may your she-camels bear a thousand offspring. After this discussion I think i'm going to stick to an RS20. Although i'm gonna try to manage a store demo of the sim2 c3x 720 and a sim2 domino d80, just to see if the high tech color wheel might have finally solved the rainbow issue.

The RS20 is an excellent choice. However, if you like a brighter/sharper image and very accurate colors, I'd leave your wallet/checkbook at home when you see the Sim2 C3X. You may be tempted...

The Radiance seems like a great product, but for arguments' sake, if all the calibration option are available on the RS20 why would anyone spend 4k on a scalar? I guess if you watch a lot of TV and DVDs on the projector then it makes a lot of sense. Personally I dont watch TV unless there're major sports events on, and dont have much of a DVD collection either, I'm gonna use the projector mostly for Bluray. But then i'm ignorant, there could be a million benefits of a scalar that I have no clue about.

I'm unfamiliar with the CMS of the RS20, but from the limited amount that I've read, the CMS and gamma controls on the Radiance are much more complete and allows full correction of the color gamut to the appropriate standard (Rec 709, etc.). I am not sure that the native CMS on the RS20 allows perfect "dialing in" of the colors. Also, as you alluded to, the "no ring" scalar on the Radiance is the best in the business. This, in addition to the flexible input/outputs, complete anamorphic lens support, top-notch deinterlacing, etc, make it a very attractive unit.

But 4k is 4k, no arguing about that. Perhaps I could fit a Crestron setup for the theater in that much. That way it'll be more accessible to others in the house. The home theater hobby is pretty anti social as it is. Or maybe B&W 700s, the local dealer said he still had a final pair of 700s that he could give me a good deal on.

Definitely spend the 4k elsewhere-- you'll get much better mileage.

PS. nice home theater brain, how did u convince the wife?

Thanks-- I've got my toys, she's got hers:

[Beta Man]

Every time I see that picture, I think about the Months and months of saving for my wife's rings..... (same cut, etc... and 5-stone-shared setting band)

I'm sure my wife's is much smaller though, since my months and months of saving only got me so much bling in the little blue box

Out of curiosity, does your wife work also, or does she handle the household during the day? I imagine you have pretty long hours at work.

My wife handles the finances, so my dedication to this hobby is greatly curbed.

I can also vouch for the RS20, as I've seen it in action, and could only dream of one day owning it.

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

Every time I see that picture, I think about the Months and months of saving for my wife's rings..... (same cut, etc... and 5-stone-shared setting band)

I'm sure my wife's is much smaller though, since my months and months of saving only got me so much bling in the little blue box

Yup, I know the feeling. I try not to think about how much that (and several other) piece of compressed carbon cost; but her eyes light up and she smiles from ear to ear when she wears it which makes it worth it and then some. [/corny]

Although... I get pretty much the same expression when I fire up the system at reference volume.

Out of curiosity, does your wife work also, or does she handle the household during the day? I imagine you have pretty long hours at work.

My wife handles the finances, so my dedication to this hobby is greatly curbed.

Yes, she works full time as a physician/assistant prof at a local med school, and she runs the household/kids. I don't know where she gets the energy. Her work hours are not as long or unpredictable as mine, but throw in the kids and home; and her workload exceeds mine. I consider myself quite lucky (no, she's not standing right behind me reading this ).

I do handle the finances as she doesn't really like doing it. I don't buy things "under her nose" as she doesn't really mind what i purchase. She understands it's "my thing", just as I understand that jewelry, shoes, purses, and clothes are "her thing". She does enjoy the end result of the room very much-- She has said, several times, "God, I LOVE this room!". She's also starting to get into nice cars, which is a good thing, I think...

I can also vouch for the RS20, as I've seen it in action, and could only dream of one day owning it.

It is a very nice projector... JVC has done a great job with the RS series.

[loco]

My wife is not that into rocks, I mean she hasn't put her rock buying on repeat, her thing is shoes handbags and travel. Its nice though, cuz she takes me along with her wherever she goes. So I get to benefit from her hobby as well. My wife mostly lets me buy whatever she wants, my main thing is motorcycles, she let me buy quite a few before she put a stop to it, the fact that the next one i want to acquire is 50k euros might have something to do with it, i still need 2 more to complete my collection but I guess it will be a while before that happens, and then she drew the line at the 12k clay pigeon machine with a built in wobbler (randomizer). That would have been fun. One day...
But I think she'll appreciate the home theater, my spiel has been that I can achieve better results with 20k than the gentleman I know who spent 65k. Since the 65K hometheater was new in 2002 and is dvd based, with a barco 7" projector, Meridian transport/prepro/amp and B&W 802s. while the 600s might not be as loud, but a bluray picture and uncompressed sound combined with a much brighter projector I think the effect will definitely be an improvement. I am trying to speak to the part of her that buys two things she doesnt need at half the price than buying 1 thing she needs at double the price.