Grado Blue vs. ShureM97 xE

[franklinpross]

It's time to get a new cartridge. I used to buy Pickering and Goldring.......back then. I like
silkiness, openness, airy sound. I need voices in the mid-range to sound
like they're in the room.

Under $100 with discounts from J&R or the like . . .(they have the above)

The 10-55k hz spec appeals to me. Even though you CAN'T hear that high it's nice to know it's
capable...these days does 1.5 tracking force have any bearing? I used to get away with 3/4 of a gram
with my (still functioning) Technics DD 1200 series TT and I used to fall for the .2x.9 stylus specs.
What about in 2009? What are they making? .2 x .7 ? ,2 x .9 ?...I'm clueless .. .

Is there a real difference, say between the Blue and the Gold Grado?

[richteer]

Originally Posted by franklinpross

It's time to get a new cartridge. I used to buy Pickering and Goldring.......back then. I like
silkiness, openness, airy sound. I need voices in the mid-range to sound
like they're in the room.

Under $100 with discounts from J&R or the like . . .(they have the above)

I'm not familiar with either of those two cartridges, but if you want "in the room" sound quality, you're gonna have to pony up quite a bit more than $100. Sorry...

What's the rest of your system (TT/amp/speakers)?

The 10-55k hz spec appeals to me. Even though you CAN'T hear that high it's nice to know it's
capable...these days does 1.5 tracking force have any bearing? I used to get away with 3/4 of a gram
with my (still functioning) Technics DD 1200 series TT and I used to fall for the .2x.9 stylus specs.
What about in 2009? What are they making? .2 x .7 ? ,2 x .9 ?...I'm clueless

3/4 og a gram sounds awfully light! Somewhere between 1.5 and 2 grams is usually about right, but you should always stick within the manufacturer's guidelines. And I've not seen stylus specs quoted in a loooong time!

[FreddieFerric]

I used an M97xe for about 7 months. It's decent, but I upgraded to an Audio Technica AT 150mlx. The tracking force is suggested at a max of 1.5 grams per the Shure instructions. It's a very good tracking cart an offers a decent full sound and a very detailed mid-range. It lacks dynamics in the higher octaves and falls a bit short in the highs. The AT really brings out finer detail and sharper resolution. More nuanced and acurate in the upper range. I paid 8x's the price of the Shure though.

I bought the Shure last November from Amazon and paid around $56.00.

The Grado Gold was reviewed in the July Stereophile (I believe July), if I recall correctly by Art Dudley. His comments about the cart were less than enthusiastic. I have no personal experience with Grado, but I bring this article to your attention so you can look into it if you like.

I would recommend the Shure to you as long as you keep your expectations realistic. BTW, you'll need around 30-40 hours of play before the carts full potential opens up.

John, you're a Grado man, have any suggestions?

[joe1515]

I would look to pick up a used cartridge on Audigon. You will get more bang for your buck. I recently sold my Sumiko blue point # 2 on Audiogon for $150.

Joe

[franklinpross]

Originally Posted by richteer

I'm not familiar with either of those two cartridges, but if you want "in the room" sound quality, you're gonna have to pony up quite a bit more than $100. Sorry...

What's the rest of your system (TT/amp/speakers)?



3/4 og a gram sounds awfully light! Somewhere between 1.5 and 2 grams is usually about right, but you should always stick within the manufacturer's guidelines. And I've not seen stylus specs quoted in a loooong time!

TT - top of the line Technics DDrive
Yamaha- great amp
Spkrs- Infinity's full sized all around (5.1) 15' woofers in a 4 way tower.(plus a 150 Sub) even for music...)
Equalizer- to get it all just right (especially Vinyl and tape)

Back in the day.. ..3/4 of a gram was the norm for top of the line cartridges.
they said . . this way you don't ever wear out the grooves . . .(?)
Today. 1.5 to 2 is the norm because people have mostly digital not analog.

Stanton Cartridges, Pickering and Goldring all had the capabilities of
producing a stylus (2x9) that could stay in the groove and not bounce
out of the grove during highly modulated passages . . .
oh well . . . . .that was then and this is now . . . . .God give me cancer NOW!!!!!! (adam sandler's line from the old SNL he did with Chris Farley in drag reading the ZAGAT rest. reviews to him)

[franklinpross]

I'm not familiar with either of those two cartridges, but if you want "in the room" sound quality, you're gonna have to pony up quite a bit more than $100. Sorry...


maybe not . . .Grado seems to be really concerned about making an excellent
cartridge.

http://www.gradolabs.com/50years.htm


I think they're on top of it these days. Just would like to know
from philes if what they(GRADO) say and make is true . . . . sooner or later
my one answer will come through on this forum . . .he just has to stop
listening for a couple of hours and go on-line . . .

[franklinpross]

Originally Posted by BluRayFred

I used an M97xe for about 7 months. It's decent, but I upgraded to an Audio Technica AT 150mlx. The tracking force is suggested at a max of 1.5 grams per the Shure instructions. It's a very good tracking cart an offers a decent full sound and a very detailed mid-range. It lacks dynamics in the higher octaves and falls a bit short in the highs. The AT really brings out finer detail and sharper resolution. More nuanced and acurate in the upper range. I paid 8x's the price of the Shure though.

I bought the Shure last November from Amazon and paid around $56.00.

The Grado Gold was reviewed in the July Stereophile (I believe July), if I recall correctly by Art Dudley. His comments about the cart were less than enthusiastic. I have no personal experience with Grado, but I bring this article to your attention so you can look into it if you like.

I would recommend the Shure to you as long as you keep your expectations realistic. BTW, you'll need around 30-40 hours of play before the carts full potential opens up.

John, you're a Grado man, have any suggestions?

If it's lacking highs it's def. out. I always knew that about anything Shure. never owned one. I considered it for the MASSES. I'm a stickler about that.
Thanks for the Stereophile heads up. I need way more research before I spend even a penny on this . . . .

with cartridges, I always bought what my expectations required. Of course I'm not spending $2,000 for this thing . . . . I just want to get it right the FIRST time . . .

[Johnny Vinyl]

Well...picking a cartridge to suit one's needs may perhaps be one of the most difficult things to accomplish in audio. Even listening to a cartridge at an Audio dealer won't give you the proper feel, unless it's mounted on your TT and not the $5,000/$10,000 rig they use.

The best way (IMHO) is to read reviews, read actual user comments and hope for the best. So let me give you mine.

Grado cartridges are wonderful. I love their sound. I've most recently been using a Grado Reference Platinum cartridge that has received some wonderful praise from the audio press. In terms of price to performance ratio, this Grado is a definate winner.

It is NOT however a cartridge that the OP should consider given his preference for detail on the upper end. The Grado's tend to be slightly coloured in that area. A better choice might be one of the Sumiko Blue Point offerings. For myself the Sumikos sound too bright, despite their excellent reputation and value. It's been a long time since I last listened to a decent Shure offering, but I always liked their V15. On a less-than-audiophile setup I think this would be an excellent choice.

John

[richteer]

Originally Posted by franklinpross

Back in the day.. ..3/4 of a gram was the norm for top of the line cartridges.
they said . . this way you don't ever wear out the grooves . . .(?)
Today. 1.5 to 2 is the norm because people have mostly digital not analog.

How long ago was "back in the day"? I've been into high end audio for about 20 years, and I don't recall top of the line carts tracking at less than 1 gram. Heck, the recommended tracking force for my 15 year old Parnassus is between 1.5 and 2 grams, and I'm pretty sure Koetsus and the like from before then had similar recommended tracking forces.

Using a too low a tracking force is just as likely to damage the groove (through mistracking) as too much. And I'm curious to know why you think there's a correlation between digital/analogue, and the tracking force people tend to use. Please explain, because I'm not persuaded!

[franklinpross]

Originally Posted by richteer

How long ago was "back in the day"? I've been into high end audio for about 20 years, and I don't recall top of the line carts tracking at less than 1 gram. Heck, the recommended tracking force for my 15 year old Parnassus is between 1.5 and 2 grams, and I'm pretty sure Koetsus and the like from before then had similar recommended tracking forces.

Using a too low a tracking force is just as likely to damage the groove (through mistracking) as too much. And I'm curious to know why you think there's a correlation between digital/analogue, and the tracking force people tend to use. Please explain, because I'm not persuaded!

Sorry for the misunderstanding here.

"back in the day" could refer to the mid 60's, late sixties. Pickering and Stanton were considered the good ones then. They made styli that could track at 3/4 gram to a gram and I always tracked a tad below a gram.(they were 3x7 elliptical or 2x7 ellip . . .each had its own distinct sound)
Each part of a gram below a gram produced terrific highs for me that
my Altec-Lansing Voice Of The Theater with the 24" Sectoral Horns just were able to reproduce the music
so deliciously. Those farting trombones from Nelson's arrangements for
Sinatra on green label Capital discs attest to the joy I used to experience.
Also the Columbia Masterworks discs recorded at 30 ips (Orig Casts & Classical)
did me in as far as sound is concerned.Also Mercury Living Presence discs were quite good. I would get them for a quarter (cut outs) in Mid Town Manhatten and Lower Manhatten(Chambers Street) I was of course only 3 or 4 at the time . . but I considered myself a sound nut . . .

The digital/analog comment was supposed to read - - -more people today
buy CD's than vinyl - so there's no real need to do a great job on cartridges
any more . . . The demand is low for vinyl compared to CD's.

My first cartridge was a Grado. but I was always looking for better . . . .Grado was ALWAYS a value priced but DID THE JOB cartridge . ..

JOHN: just read Dudley's review in the July Sterophile. He hated it. He liked the Denon and another one . . . . . .this is starting to annoy me . . . . . .

richteer: I did some research for you: here- read this - -this is what I owned-

http://www.stantondj.com/v2/cartridg...s_681eeemk.php

Thanks to all of you for the input . . .but I think the decision has been made.

'EVERYTHING OLD IS NEW AGAIN'.... . peter allen . . . . . .

[richteer]

Originally Posted by franklinpross

The digital/analog comment was supposed to read - - -more people today
buy CD's than vinyl - so there's no real need to do a great job on cartridges
any more . . . The demand is low for vinyl compared to CD's.

I agree about the relative demand of Cds vs vinyl, but you are very mistaken if you think today's high end cartridges aren't as good as yesteryears! Today's high end carts are light years ahead of the state of the art from a decade or two ago!

Also, I don't think there's a meaningful correlation between cartridge quality and its recommended tracking force.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by franklinpross

JOHN: just read Dudley's review in the July Sterophile. He hated it. He liked the Denon and another one . . . . . .this is starting to annoy me . . . . . .

Here is the last paragraph from a review on AV Guide:

Here’s the bottom line: Grado’s Reference Platinum isn’t a “state-of-the-art” cartridge (it could use more openness, detail, and high-frequency “air”), but it exhibits more top-tier performance attributes and delivers greater musical enjoyment per dollar than any other $300 cartridge I’ve heard. As my wife said after hearing the Grado, “When you can get this close to greatness for $300, it almost seems crazy to spend thousands more chasing incremental improvements.” Food for thought, don’t you think?

I suppose this post only shows there is more than one opinion. Personally I'm very happy with it and have no intention of exchanging it for another make/model from any company.

John

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by franklinpross

...Thanks to all of you for the input . . .but I think the decision has been made.

And that is?

[franklinpross]

http://www.stantondj.com/v2/cartridg...s_681eeemk.php



Please see POST# 10 for better link .

Thanks fellow posters.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by franklinpross

http://www.stantondj.com/v2/cartridg...s_681eeemk.php



Please see POST# 10 for better link .

Thanks fellow posters.

Congrats on your decision. How much did you get it for?

John

[franklinpross]

Originally Posted by John72953

Congrats on your decision. How much did you get it for?

John

John

Thanks for your being a sounding board for my on-line ponderfication.

I am in contact with Stanton and should get a dealer that carries it.
I't on their website so it has to be available somewhere.
Whatever it costs I'll get it. it was stunning then . . .it'll be stunning today.

it's such an honest sounding thing that I fell in love with it then and I'm sure
my heart will melt in 2009. the stylus alone is $74. How much more could the unit be? . . . double? prob not. I'm almost certain J&R could order it for me and take it from there...

Thanks for helping me make a decision I couldn't do alone.....

FPR

[Johnny Vinyl]

The Stanton is available from Jerry Raskin's Needle Doctor site. It lists for $149.00

John

[franklinpross]

Originally Posted by John72953

The Stanton is available from Jerry Raskin's Needle Doctor site. It lists for $149.00

John

John, thanks for the info . . . I SHALL keep the Good Doctor in mind......

I'm very happy with the price . . . .of $149.

FPR

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by franklinpross

John, thanks for the info . . . I SHALL keep the Good Doctor in mind......

I'm very happy with the price . . . .of $149.

FPR

Excellent! Do let us know how it all comes together and your impressions et al!

John