AVR's without PRE-OUTS

[HAMP]

Why isn’t there pre-out on all AVR’s? It seems that the AVR’s with somewhat high output with watts have pre-outs for an AMP connection, but many AVR’s with low watt’s that can really benefit from the amp that do not have pre-outs.

It seems like a person has wasted money when they bought a AVR with high out-put as a feature and then adds a AMP, They are no longer using that part of the AVR and it’s a lost. It would be a gain with a low power AVR then add an amp.

To me it would seem a AVR with low watts can really pair up with an amp and make a nice combination.

I understand that a AVR will not put out what a AMP really can do, but it still seems like a waste for whatever power it will not be using any longer compared to a AVR that didn’t have a great deal of watts in the first place.

Small example, I have a Denon AVR-789 and it sounds fantastic and it would be a terrific combination to add more power from a AMP, but it does not have any pre-out.

If someone was to have a Denon AVR-4310 and it has some nice power already and I’m sure that was part of the selling feature. Why would someone really want to add to that device something it already has?

In my set-ups, I sometimes want more output from my Denon 789, but no pre-outs for it. Then I have my Onkyo 805 and I really dare not turn that up and it has pre-outs for an AMP.

The amp I wouldn’t mind adding to my set-up claim to have less power then my AVR. I would not be getting a AMP just for power, but for the clarity I have read about with having separates.

[Opips2]

I understand that.

Someone buy fancy loudspeaker are 4 ohm impedance isn't match there AVR is only 8 ohm impedance and a speaker are low impedance can damage AVR or damage speaker. So AVR has preout for separate an amplifier. It safe loudspeakers will not get damage. The amp give more power those speakers. it's 50% headroom.

matter it for me.

When you buy a loudspeaker is 8 ohm impedance for AVR drop pre-out. If you want future upgrade AVR has pre-out for large home theater or professional theater.

it's price. that's all.

[Johnny Vinyl]

I've often wondered about this myself and your argument or question rather is a valid one. Maybe there should be more discussion about this and, as consumers, maybe we should be more vocal about this feature. Perhaps it is not being done as that would eliminate the upgrade path to another AVR. With pre-outs on entry-level AVR's most of us would opt for adding a seperate power amp. Most AVR manufacturers don't offer power amps in their catalogue.

With the higher-end AVR's they offer this feature as there isn't much of an upgrade path left. May as well offer pre-outs and have the consumer still use their AVR as processors only. Is this making sense?

John

[Opips2]

John

Some AVR manufacturers offer pre-out amplifier for zone 2 or zone 3. this is making sense.

who want another a room?

I so guess...

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Opips2

John

Some AVR manufacturers offer pre-out amplifier for zone 2 or zone 3. this is making sense.

who want another a room?

I so guess...

Hi Opi,

I didn't know that, but then I've never looked into utilizing the Zone features of an AVR. And I don't think I ever would either.

John

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by John72953

I've often wondered about this myself and your argument or question rather is a valid one. Maybe there should be more discussion about this and, as consumers, maybe we should be more vocal about this feature. Perhaps it is not being done as that would eliminate the upgrade path to another AVR. With pre-outs on entry-level AVR's most of us would opt for adding a seperate power amp. Most AVR manufacturers don't offer power amps in their catalogue.

With the higher-end AVR's they offer this feature as there isn't much of an upgrade path left. May as well offer pre-outs and have the consumer still use their AVR as processors only. Is this making sense?

John

Yes, what you are saying does make sense. I was thinking the same thing, there isn't much of an upgrade or a really excessive upgrade on a amp with just too much power/cost. I’m guessing that maybe more people would buy the lower end AVR if they had the pre-outs and then choose a amp with the power they want.

It seems it would be better that way for a couple reason, like what Opips2 is talking about. An amp can handle Ohm better then a receiver and that would be better for the consumer.

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by Opips2

John

Some AVR manufacturers offer pre-out amplifier for zone 2 or zone 3. this is making sense.

who want another a room?

I so guess...

That's for left/right, not full 5.1/7.1

[jdc115]

I think it is always trying to get under certain price points while still making a certain level of margin. Probably the lower power rated receivers are already priced low and have a lower level of margin so they can not afford the extra cost of pre-outs. Or course I am ignoring such things as tubes or some higher end companies that may have high priced/low power receivers. For example, NAD makes a 50 Watt receiver that does offer pre-outs but then it is probably more expensive then most mass produced 100-200 watt receivers and makes a higher margin.

Where the higher powered receivers may be able to sell for more money so they can also put this feature in and still make an acceptable margin.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by jdc115

I think it is always trying to get under certain price points while still making a certain level of margin. Probably the lower power rated receivers are already priced low and have a lower level of margin so they can not afford the extra cost of pre-outs. Or course I am ignoring such things as tubes or some higher end companies that may have high priced/low power receivers. For example, NAD makes a 50 Watt receiver that does offer pre-outs but then it is probably more expensive then most mass produced 100-200 watt receivers and makes a higher margin.

Where the higher powered receivers may be able to sell for more money so they can also put this feature in and still make an acceptable margin.

I think jd has A good point here ! I may be wrong , but lower cost = less options . Higher cost = more options !
It would seem to me they would be after the most money they can make with the least cost to make .

[DiverSpear]

Originally Posted by Opips2

John

Some AVR manufacturers offer pre-out amplifier for zone 2 or zone 3. this is making sense.

who want another a room?

I so guess...

The multiple zones are stereo only

I run both zone 2 and 3 on my receiver and it is perfect for entertaining. I can have 3 different sources running at 3 different volumes. Everyone has different tastes in music. I can have a movie playing to occupy kids and listen to music or watch something seperate in zone 2.

My zones are: zone 2 back porch, zone 3 garage.

[Linksys2.4]

VERY interesting points and a good thread...I agree this is a real head scratcher that I never thought about before...

Indeed, lower-priced AVRs are the ones that DON'T have the preouts, probably, as everyone is saying, due to cost cutting...yet THESE are the units that could BENEFIT from the added power amps! The higher priced models, with more power, have the preouts, but their amp sections is part of what people BUY THESE EXPENSIVE RECEIVERS FOR! It's really a pandora's box...

I would love to have the option of adding a multichannel power amp to my Onkyo 605, as it's rated at 90 watts with only two channels driven -- but, so far, the power has been fine in my room and I haven't really stressed this amp AT ALL. I think wattage ratings are deceiving...people balk at "80 watts per channel" or "90 watts per channel" but when you throw things like personal speaker calibration levels and amp control devices like Onkyo's "IntelliVolume" system, these rating suddenly don't matter as much if the receiver is pumping satisfying volume.

I did toy with the possibility of finding a way of adding a power amp to a receiver without a preout...but from what I learned, it's really "ghetto rigging" the receiver and not worth the hassle...

Great thread!