"Mandatory Managed Copy"

[Sony1]

Can someone please explain to me why it is that a company can tell you( the consumer) what you can and can't do with something you buy? It seems foolish that a company would come out with something that will discourage buyers from purchasing their product. Maybe it's me but I don't think this "managed copy" is going to fly with the consumer.

[thunderhawk]

True. All this crap will backfire.

[GI2K]

Ya this thing of "trusted computing" and not trust us gets slightly on my nerves... anyway I just want the Blu-ray space for back ups and I don’t have a HD-TV so this matter is not really that important to me yet!!

[Blue]

Originally Posted by Sony1

Can someone please explain to me why it is that a company can tell you( the consumer) what you can and can't do with something you buy? It seems foolish that a company would come out with something that will discourage buyers from purchasing their product. Maybe it's me but I don't think this "managed copy" is going to fly with the consumer.

I certainly hope this managed copy thing will go away - with time I'm sure it will. I think the studios think you are just making a donation to them and in return they will let you watch a movie that they have most probably ripped off the actors & crew - now it's your turn to be ripped off.
Seriously - I think it's time for governemnts to step in. They are all too happy to step in against pirates (which they should) but they should also be prepared to protect the consumer.

[Patrick]

"Can someone please explain to me why it is that a company can tell you( the consumer) what you can and can't do with something you buy?"


Yes, you bought the right to own and watch the dvd, your did NOT buy the rights to the movie content. Its simple really and I dont see the problem, Its basically a copyright, You have the right to buy it, and make one copy for yourself, you DONT have the right the sell a copy to your friends, give a copy to your family, or send it over the internet to someone. I wouldnt want someone taking something I made and making an exact copy and selling it for cheaper, Thats why we have patents. If you want a copy, BUY ONE. As you can see this topic touches a nerve with the things consumers think they should have the right to do. The companies and actors put their time and money into making entertaining movies and marketing them and distributing them. Yes they make alot of money, but they also spend alot to make them better and better. How would you like it if someone duplicated your job for cheaper and hurt your wallet or cost you your job. Lets be honest and real for a second. If you dont want to buy your own copy then dont, but dont STEAL it either.

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Its basically a copyright, You have the right to buy it, and make one copy for yourself, you DONT have the right the sell a copy to your friends, give a copy to your family, or send it over the internet to someone.

Ah, but what if I just want to buy only one player in my house and have that player be able to stream that video to any ONE screen I want in my house? Should I not be able to do that?

There seems to be a move afoot to make it so the systems some of us ALREADY HAVE will not be able to play video at their best capabilities.

Think of it this way (a very possible hypothetical scenario):

I have a system which will take HDMI or DVI and or component video up through 1080i. (Such system have been selling for a couple years or more.)

There are some in this forum who are vehemently making unsubstantiated claims that both the HD DVD and Blu-ray Disk players will REQUIRE all TVs/monitors they are connected to have hardware DRM built into them or they will output no better than 480p. Thus the TV/monitor I already have will not be able to play 720p or 1080i formats from a Blu-ray Disk player!

While I have no intention of stealing anything, some people want to make DRM software and hardware so intrusive and overly controling that components that I already have won't work optimally. This is just asinine.

For me it's not about stealing versus not stealing. It's about being able to use what I (hypothetically) already have.

I have a TV that supports and displays 720p and 1080i over HDMI or DVI. Supposedly I will be able to buy a Blu-ray Disk player that outputs 720p and 1080i over HDMI or DVI. Supposedly I will be able to buy disks for the Blu-ray Disk player that outputs 720p or 1080i.

However, because my TV does not support hardware copy prevention in HDMI or DVI I supposedly be FORCED to view the video at 480p!!!!

[Chappers]

What if you made a copy of the disc, for your own use. Then that disc got damaged or scratched or something. So you decide to make another copy of the disc to replace it. Will it let you?

I've heard disturbing things about players marking the discs in some way once they've been ripped once, to prevent them being ripped again. I don't know if that's true, but I don't like the sound of it. I don't know what other methods they could use to physically restrict the consumer from making more than one copy, but there are likely to be circumstances where you need to copy your disc again.

I suppose it's a bit like M$'s software activation. (and I could be wrong here), but what if you had a MS Windows, activated it and went about your way. Then your computer died, so you decided to build a new one and use your Windows disk again... would it still work or would the activation site claim that this copy of Windows has already been activated on another machine? (I've never tried it).

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by Chappers

What if you made a copy of the disc, for your own use. Then that disc got damaged or scratched or something. So you decide to make another copy of the disc to replace it. Will it let you?

I've heard disturbing things about players marking the discs in some way once they've been ripped once, to prevent them being ripped again. I don't know if that's true, but I don't like the sound of it. I don't know what other methods they could use to physically restrict the consumer from making more than one copy, but there are likely to be circumstances where you need to copy your disc again.

I suppose it's a bit like M$'s software activation. (and I could be wrong here), but what if you had a MS Windows, activated it and went about your way. Then your computer died, so you decided to build a new one and use your Windows disk again... would it still work or would the activation site claim that this copy of Windows has already been activated on another machine? (I've never tried it).

My understanding of the MS Windows activation requirement is that, yes, it would not let you automatically install Windows on a new machine. However, you could call MS and get codes from them over the phone which would allow you to install Windows on the new machine. You would just have to explain to them why and get additional permission.

The MS Windows activation issues mostly arise because the system "phones home" to MS to do the actual activation and in the process sends machine specific data to MS. I don't know of any requirement by any of the HD DVD or Blu-ray Disk players to do any phoning home to check on things. I don't even know of any requirement for them to be hooked up to any kind of telecommunications system (be it the plain old telephone system [aka POTS] or a broadband 'net connection). So a similar type of "activation" or "allowance" system would be virtually impossible to implement.

Anyone know anything different in the specs that might require this?

[AV_Integrated]

My understanding is that MMC is actually a step up from what DVD offers and also a step up in copyright protection.

It means that companies can legally copy content from your HD disc to a hard drive for things like video distribution throughout your home. Like a video iPod for HD conent. This is a very cool idea and legalizes this method of providing material to multiple locations from a centralized server point. One Blu-Ray drive, plus multiple video outputs = no need for 5 stand alone players.

It does not change your ability to use that one disc you purchased whenever and wherever you want to. Drop it in your home player, watch it. Take it to a friends, watch it. Take it to the moon - watch it. Just like you do, right now, with DVD.

I think a much bigger issue will be if they decide to encrypt the output so it only is available on HDCP protected digital outputs and not over component video at HD resolutions.

[thunderhawk]

Anyone know anything different in the specs that might require this?

An internet connection and some software...

I believe Windows sends specific data from your computer, information about your hardware setup with serials and build numbers and stuff like that to Microsoft. That's why I think you can reïnstall Windows on your current machine as many times as you want, but not on another computer (if it has an internet connection). I believe you can also run Windows on another computer too without too much problems. But you would get into trouble when M$ notices two computers with the same Windows wanting to get updated from different machines.
I think it's pretty easy to get Windows working with all patches and fixes, just bring it all on the computer using discs and keep the internet out of your business...
MMC I believe is just worse then DVD protection. DVD protection doesn't allow you to make a copy at home. You'll have to bypass the copy protection first, and that's illegal, normally you can't do this without the proper tools. MMC might let you make one copy, or it may just be thougher protection... Does anyone know the details about this protection scheme?

[Blue]

I think this thread is now getting a bit confused. There is the main part being DRM (Digital Rights Management) which is the copywrite protection. MMC is a subset of this (Manadtory Managed Copy). One will control the overall behavior of the player and disk - the other how the disk can be copied around the home.

From my understanding from the Pioneer press release this is all still a big mess and has not yet been fully defined. It seems the BDA is not allowing much information out on the bits they do know about - or they are much further back in R&D than what they are giving the impression of. All we know for certain is that there will be both DRM (AACS) & MMC.

How they will be implemented will be a wait and see - hopefully some indiciation will be given at the the CES although I doubt it. I think everything in Blu Ray is ready to go except for the lawyers.