What are your thoughts on movies that do not have a contained story? - Blu-ray Forum

ArmyOfDarknessAW · 05-20-2016, 01:31 PM

What are your thoughts on movies that do not have a contained story? I am talking about movies that set things up for a next movie and don't tell a story on its own.

The other day i watched the 5th Wave and i have to say the movie is kind of bugging me. The movie doesn't resolve a single issue by the end and fails to be a movie on its own right. It is more like a pilot to a tv show that sets things up. Does is have some enticing stuff in it? Possibly. However it doesn't stand alone well. Not many people would pop in a DVD just to watch a pilot to a show and be pleased with it. If the 5th Wave series doesn't continue which it may not than the first movie has zero purpose.

A similar thing can be said about a movie like the Scorch Trails. This movie is like watching the middle of a long movie. It does not have a start that works without seeing the first movie. It also does not have a satisfying ending whatsoever. The movie is just a boring journey with no resolution.

I do not need a movie tied up in a little bow. I love an opening ending such as

[Show spoiler]

. I just find no fun in watching a movie that sets up these grand ideas especially when they don't even know if the series will continue. I want to watch a movie that is a movie on its own right.

Sure there are great examples of this pulled off correctly. I just wish so many movies didn't jump on doing this.

spectre08 · 05-20-2016, 01:36 PM

I don't see by what measure it doesn't have its own story.

5th Wave was a fairly straight-forward quest movie.

Lose brother
Find brother
Save brother

I think you're confusing the backstory with the main story.

It wasn't a movie about the invasion, how they would stop it, or what was happening.

It was a movie about a girl taking care of her brother, losing her brother, and then going to rescue him, set against the backdrop of an alien invasion.

Is Saving Private Ryan not really a movie because the soldiers stayed in the military and had careers after the war or because the movie didn't show Germany's surrender?

ArmyOfDarknessAW · 05-20-2016, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spectre08

I don't see by what measure it doesn't have its own story.

5th Wave was a fairly straight-forward quest movie.

Lose brother
Find brother
Save brother

I think you're confusing the backstory with the main story.

It wasn't a movie about the invasion, how they would stop it, or what was happening.

It was a movie about a girl taking care of her brother, losing her brother, and then going to rescue him, set against the backdrop of an alien invasion.

Is Saving Private Ryan not really a movie because the soldiers stayed in the military and had careers after the war or because the movie didn't show Germany's surrender?

If that is all it was going for than it failed completely imo. The story of her finding her brother was completely uninteresting compared to the aliens which this is about. The books are about the aliens. It is not a whole series about her finding her brother. The greater story of this movie is unanswered if it does not continue.

spectre08 · 05-20-2016, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW

If that is all it was going for than it failed completely imo. The story of her finding her brother was completely uninteresting compared to the aliens which this is about. The books are about the aliens. It is not a whole series about her finding her brother. The greater story of this movie is unanswered if it does not continue.

I didn't say you had to think it was a good movie, I thought it was just ok.

But your thread's premise was that it didn't have a contained story, which is provably false.

ArmyOfDarknessAW · 05-20-2016, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spectre08

I didn't say you had to think it was a good movie, I thought it was just ok.

But your thread's premise was that it didn't have a contained story, which is provably false.

Fine you got me.... congrats. You love proving people wrong I've noticed. Got any holes to shoot in my Scorch Trails example?

spectre08 · 05-20-2016, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW

Fine you got me.... congrats. You love proving people wrong I've noticed. Got any holes to shoot in my Scorch Trails example?

no, Scorch Trials is i think a fair criticism, and a better example than 5th Wave, even though I actually enjoyed Scorch Trials more. It definitely stops halfway through.

s2mikey · 05-20-2016, 01:36 PM

I mostly agree with you. I dont have a problem with some open-endedness or whatever but like you said if they arent even sure that there will be a sequel then dont go setting one up. Even Lucas for Star Wars made A New Hope a "stand alone" film just in case things didnt work out. Its the only SW movie that can really just be its own thing, even though Vader doesnt die.

I get what you're saying though and Im with ya.

TheLaughingMann · 05-20-2016, 02:07 PM

The obvious ones I know of would have to be the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit series. We all knew each movie was going to be a chunk of the plot strung together for a whole summary. However, many wrote movies to be inclusive of its story within a set time span. We've gotten longer movies to tell more expansive stories, but even that's not enough. I think if someone can't work within the scope of a couple of hours to tell the story they want to tell, they better make the first part of it spectacular enough...and include at the end "so-and-so will return in -insert next movie title here-." What matters is making the first movie enjoyable enough in itself that if there is a followup, it can stand out on its own.

Pirates of the Caribbean, The Matrix, Highlander...those are examples of movies that didn't need sequels but had huge worlds and stories to speak of. And that's great storytelling right there. If you leave people wanting more, and the movie does well, the sequel can build upon it if the material's right for doing it. But if you write a movie with the intent of it needing a sequel, and it tanks...well...there you go.

L.J. · 05-20-2016, 02:20 PM

Do like it better when a film stands on its own. F and F is good at finishing a story instead of marketing three films to tell one story.

Batmon77 · 05-20-2016, 02:30 PM

Doesnt matter.

TheLaughingMann · 05-20-2016, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.J.

Do like it better when a film stands on its own. F and F is good at finishing a story instead of marketing three films to tell one story.

Fast and Furious?

I have yet to watch the past...3 or 4 movies (Tokyo Drift was the last I saw all the way through). I did hear that they finally found a solid budget and went to fleshing them out as more actionable films, and became progressively better.

42041 · 05-20-2016, 03:27 PM

I can't think of a popular movie that doesn't have some self-contained dramatic arc - I don't think that would fly.

I don't have a problem if a franchise doesn't resolve most of its threads in one go - but I prefer when at least it feels like they are converging towards some resolution. That's the trouble I've been having with all the Marvel universe movies (granted, I haven't seen most of the recent ones) - the "universe" part of those films feels more like cross-promotion than some overarching narrative. Star Wars will go down that path too, and it will be a bit of shame for it to become a big expensive TV series.

That said, I don't think it's a big deal; to quote Ebert, I'm less interested in what a movie's about than how it's about it.

Will. · 05-20-2016, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 42041

That said, I don't think it's a big deal; to quote Ebert, I'm less interested in what a movie's about than how it's about it.

God I miss Ebert.

dgoswald · 05-20-2016, 05:23 PM

I think something like Batman Begins did it best with the Joker card reveal at the end. Nolan had no way of knowing how BB would be received (and therefore whether he'd get the opportunity to make a sequel), so he put his all into a decent story that was wrapped up by the end credits. The "I'll look into it" line was a non-committal way of telling the audience that's the direction they were headed in a potential sequel, but nothing more was set up or left hanging in the air.

Cremildo · 07-12-2020, 04:00 PM

I'm wholly indifferent as to whether a film has a "contained" story or not. That's not what makes a movie good or bad.

J999 · 07-13-2020, 12:09 AM

The only time I mind is if there's a massive cliffhanger and the next part never happens. A few hints is one thing. An after credits scene without a follow up is annoying but the movie can usually still be enjoyed as is.

The main one I can think of that actually ticked me off is Independence Day Resurgence. Ending the way it did and with the third movie highly unlikely, it's just going to be forever unfinished. Wasn't that good anyway, but the end just makes the whole thing pointless, and completely takes away any incentive to watch it again.
After all that time waiting for a sequel to begin with. Just better to think of it as a movie that was never completed, or forget it exists, and enjoy the first.

larsknudsen · 07-13-2020, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cremildo

I'm wholly indifferent as to whether a film has a "contained" story or not. That's not what makes a movie good or bad.

In which case, why did you revive a thread that's been dormant for four years?

CreasyBear · 07-13-2020, 12:55 AM

A single film should still be coherent and intelligible and have a clear beginning, middle, and end. If there is a plan and an overall story in mind, then it should just wet your appetite for the next chapter.

When none of this happens, you get Star Wars Episode VII-IX.

CrazyBlu-RayFan · 07-13-2020, 04:42 AM

If it's made back to back, then I'm fine with it; I even think Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Man's Chest is my favorite film in the franchise despite it's cliffhanger ending (especially since At World's End was happening anyways). I'm even fine with movies that don't fully conclude to set up for a sequel as long as the movie itself was a really good complete feeling experience, like John Wick 2 & 3 and Alita Battle Angel. The ones I have issue with are movies that just focus on setting up future movies and don't give anything of interest in the current film, making everything feel cheap and hollow on top of not making the current film feel satisfying enough by the end, it just feels more like a studio desperate for a franchise instead of someone trying to legitimately make an actual enjoyable film.

Magicman38 · 07-13-2020, 04:42 AM

I still don’t know what The Tree of Life was about but I couldn’t get through it. If there was a story there, I have no idea what it was.

05-20-2016, 01:31 PM	#1
ArmyOfDarknessAW Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jan 2010 Location:Moosic, PA Home Theater Gallery:21 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:64	What are your thoughts on movies that do not have a contained story? What are your thoughts on movies that do not have a contained story? I am talking about movies that set things up for a next movie and don't tell a story on its own. The other day i watched the 5th Wave and i have to say the movie is kind of bugging me. The movie doesn't resolve a single issue by the end and fails to be a movie on its own right. It is more like a pilot to a tv show that sets things up. Does is have some enticing stuff in it? Possibly. However it doesn't stand alone well. Not many people would pop in a DVD just to watch a pilot to a show and be pleased with it. If the 5th Wave series doesn't continue which it may not than the first movie has zero purpose. A similar thing can be said about a movie like the Scorch Trails. This movie is like watching the middle of a long movie. It does not have a start that works without seeing the first movie. It also does not have a satisfying ending whatsoever. The movie is just a boring journey with no resolution. I do not need a movie tied up in a little bow. I love an opening ending such as [Show spoiler] . I just find no fun in watching a movie that sets up these grand ideas especially when they don't even know if the series will continue. I want to watch a movie that is a movie on its own right. Sure there are great examples of this pulled off correctly. I just wish so many movies didn't jump on doing this.

07-13-2020, 12:09 AM	#16
J999 Special Member Member since:Jun 2017 Location:Canada 4K collection:6 Blu-ray collection:350 DVD collection:400 Digital collection:110 iTunes collection:63	The only time I mind is if there's a massive cliffhanger and the next part never happens. A few hints is one thing. An after credits scene without a follow up is annoying but the movie can usually still be enjoyed as is. The main one I can think of that actually ticked me off is Independence Day Resurgence. Ending the way it did and with the third movie highly unlikely, it's just going to be forever unfinished. Wasn't that good anyway, but the end just makes the whole thing pointless, and completely takes away any incentive to watch it again. After all that time waiting for a sequel to begin with. Just better to think of it as a movie that was never completed, or forget it exists, and enjoy the first. Last edited by J999; 07-13-2020 at 05:14 AM.

05-20-2016, 01:36 PM	#2
spectre08 Blu-ray Knight Member since:Feb 2015 Location:Dallas, TX Blu-ray collection:538 DVD collection:25 Trading Score:49	I don't see by what measure it doesn't have its own story. 5th Wave was a fairly straight-forward quest movie. Lose brother Find brother Save brother I think you're confusing the backstory with the main story. It wasn't a movie about the invasion, how they would stop it, or what was happening. It was a movie about a girl taking care of her brother, losing her brother, and then going to rescue him, set against the backdrop of an alien invasion. Is Saving Private Ryan not really a movie because the soldiers stayed in the military and had careers after the war or because the movie didn't show Germany's surrender?

05-20-2016, 01:36 PM	#7
s2mikey Banned Member since:Nov 2008 Location:Upstate, NY 4K collection:130 Blu-ray collection:303 Trading Score:40	I mostly agree with you. I dont have a problem with some open-endedness or whatever but like you said if they arent even sure that there will be a sequel then dont go setting one up. Even Lucas for Star Wars made A New Hope a "stand alone" film just in case things didnt work out. Its the only SW movie that can really just be its own thing, even though Vader doesnt die. I get what you're saying though and Im with ya.

05-20-2016, 02:07 PM	#8
TheLaughingMann Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jan 2015 Location:Delaware 4K collection:32 Blu-ray collection:1961 DVD collection:172 Blu-ray reviews:17 Trading Score:25	The obvious ones I know of would have to be the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit series. We all knew each movie was going to be a chunk of the plot strung together for a whole summary. However, many wrote movies to be inclusive of its story within a set time span. We've gotten longer movies to tell more expansive stories, but even that's not enough. I think if someone can't work within the scope of a couple of hours to tell the story they want to tell, they better make the first part of it spectacular enough...and include at the end "so-and-so will return in -insert next movie title here-." What matters is making the first movie enjoyable enough in itself that if there is a followup, it can stand out on its own. Pirates of the Caribbean, The Matrix, Highlander...those are examples of movies that didn't need sequels but had huge worlds and stories to speak of. And that's great storytelling right there. If you leave people wanting more, and the movie does well, the sequel can build upon it if the material's right for doing it. But if you write a movie with the intent of it needing a sequel, and it tanks...well...there you go.

05-20-2016, 02:20 PM	#9
L.J. Blu-ray Archduke Top contributor Member since:Aug 2013 Location:South Carolina 4K collection:251 Blu-ray collection:754 DVD collection:23 Blu-ray reviews: 145 Trading Score:56	Do like it better when a film stands on its own. F and F is good at finishing a story instead of marketing three films to tell one story.

05-20-2016, 02:30 PM	#10
Batmon77 Blu-ray Baron Member since:Oct 2011 Location:New York City 4K collection:13 Blu-ray collection:428 DVD collection:1	Doesnt matter.

05-20-2016, 03:27 PM	#12
42041 Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Oct 2008	I can't think of a popular movie that doesn't have some self-contained dramatic arc - I don't think that would fly. I don't have a problem if a franchise doesn't resolve most of its threads in one go - but I prefer when at least it feels like they are converging towards some resolution. That's the trouble I've been having with all the Marvel universe movies (granted, I haven't seen most of the recent ones) - the "universe" part of those films feels more like cross-promotion than some overarching narrative. Star Wars will go down that path too, and it will be a bit of shame for it to become a big expensive TV series. That said, I don't think it's a big deal; to quote Ebert, I'm less interested in what a movie's about than how it's about it.

05-20-2016, 05:23 PM	#14
dgoswald Blu-ray Knight Member since:May 2015 Location:Erath Blu-ray collection:61	I think something like Batman Begins did it best with the Joker card reveal at the end. Nolan had no way of knowing how BB would be received (and therefore whether he'd get the opportunity to make a sequel), so he put his all into a decent story that was wrapped up by the end credits. The "I'll look into it" line was a non-committal way of telling the audience that's the direction they were headed in a potential sequel, but nothing more was set up or left hanging in the air.

07-12-2020, 04:00 PM	#15
Cremildo Blu-ray Archduke Member since:Jul 2011 Location:Brazil 4K collection:165 Blu-ray collection:1050 Trading Score:51	I'm wholly indifferent as to whether a film has a "contained" story or not. That's not what makes a movie good or bad.

07-13-2020, 12:55 AM	#18
CreasyBear Blu-ray Count Member since:Apr 2019 Trading Score:115	A single film should still be coherent and intelligible and have a clear beginning, middle, and end. If there is a plan and an overall story in mind, then it should just wet your appetite for the next chapter. When none of this happens, you get Star Wars Episode VII-IX.

07-13-2020, 04:42 AM	#19
CrazyBlu-RayFan Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Sep 2012 Location:Colorado 4K collection:298 Blu-ray collection:790 DVD collection:7 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:84	If it's made back to back, then I'm fine with it; I even think Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Man's Chest is my favorite film in the franchise despite it's cliffhanger ending (especially since At World's End was happening anyways). I'm even fine with movies that don't fully conclude to set up for a sequel as long as the movie itself was a really good complete feeling experience, like John Wick 2 & 3 and Alita Battle Angel. The ones I have issue with are movies that just focus on setting up future movies and don't give anything of interest in the current film, making everything feel cheap and hollow on top of not making the current film feel satisfying enough by the end, it just feels more like a studio desperate for a franchise instead of someone trying to legitimately make an actual enjoyable film.

07-13-2020, 04:42 AM	#20
Magicman38 Senior Member Member since:Jul 2012 4K collection:13 Blu-ray collection:430 DVD collection:88	I still don’t know what The Tree of Life was about but I couldn’t get through it. If there was a story there, I have no idea what it was.

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