Rich and Famous / Tragic Hero (Eureka) - 24th July 2023

[Mr_Orange]

I couldn't find a thread for this set so thought I'd start one up.



I don't know too much about these films. The trailer looks interesting enough but there is quite a disparaging comment over at City on Fire about the lack of action. Is this true, is all the action in the trailer and, outside of that, there isn't much going on?

I'm not a fan of the Godfather Part I and II (I actually find them boring) so if these are an HK version of that, I'll probably pass, but if there is more to them, I'd likely pick them up.

[Ken81]

I remember watching these two the first time on the old Made in Hong Kong UK VHS. Wouldn't say they are comparable to the Godfather movies, since the production values are way lower. It's a typical triad storyline like A Better Tomorrow, but maybe on a lower scale. The one that shines in these movies is Alex Man's antagonist character, he goes all out and tops them all, especially the sequel Tragic Hero. As I heard, the sequel was actually released before part one Rich & Famous theatrically, since they thought the sequel had more action scenes. But I didn't know this at the time, so I watched them chronological, which I do recommend to this day. You do experience the character developments better by watching it in chronological order.

[AndrewFM]

Mine shipped last night

[drush9999]

Spot checked mine today, not impressed by the PQ at all.

[Broomey]

The sequel feels like the first proper hardcore heroic bloodshed film on blu ray in the U.K unless I'm forgetting one.

Shame to only get a commentary on the first film.

I enjoyed both very much. Though it makes the absence of the more famous Chow Yun Fat films more apparent.

Picture quality is not much of a step up from Dvd sadly imho.

[navydavey]

Watched both of these today, I thought they were alright, the 2nd movie ramps up the violence quite a bit and is fairly sadistic in places, which is fine by me.

There's an audio drop out on the English dub of Rich & Famous at 01:35:59 where the sound goes quiet then the volume gradually increases over the next few seconds again.

There's also a bit of frequent distortion on the Tragic Hero English track but still it's always fantastic that these English dubs are included when possible (and a shame when they are not).

I though the picture quality wasn't too bad overall, a step up from Magic Cop which I watched recently.

One thing I did find personally odd was the audio editing. Sometimes, music just starts and stops at strange times, especially during some action scenes. Guess I'm more used to the slick editing of Chan/Sammo flicks and the cookie cutter Shaw style.

[Mr. Chaverria]

Saw the 1st one, I liked it a good bit. Probably the earliest I've seen of Chow Yun-fat's work aside from A Better Tomorrow. The Postman Strikes Back from 88 Films will be the youngest that I've seen of Chow's work. So that's neat.

And I just finished Tragic Hero.

Really enjoyed them both. I think these work really well back to back. I can't say much to the quality cuz sometimes HK just didn't take care of their stuff. But I was good w/ the quality. While not perfect, I thought it was pretty well done. It's not amazing quality but there are values to being in HD. The mall scene in Tragic Hero shows the details and quality to that film. It's sort of run of the mill crime tales but that's not to discredit it. It's Hong Kong during this era, so even run of the mill can still be pretty impressive.

Now to further enjoy these w/ Frank Djeng on the commentaries. Love that guy.

Does make me wish we had Woo's stuff, during this time, on BD. That's the crown jewel for me. Hard Boiled being my favorite of the bunch. Would love to see what some real good restoration on that one would look like. So far, the best of HB and The Killer are those bootlegs from Hong Kong Rescue. Which is sad.

[Paul4films]

While it was the first time ever seeing these films I liked them picture quality is very important for me, while not bad I feel that they have caked the films with the DNR so you don't see much grain sadly other wise the picture would actually be better with grain. I don't know why companies inbed DNR to disc as most TV's have that option to turn on and off anyway! Grain is what makes the picture look better! Yeah as mentioned above they are some audio drops out with the english dub. I've noticed this new company Orange Sky Golden Harvest Entertainment Co.Ltd are releasing titles with no 2K or 4K restorations mostly only stating restored with releases like God of Gamblers, Magic Cop, Rich and famous and Tragic Hero?

[apollo828]

Orange Sky has been around for awhile. I think they're an offshoot of some other company. I can't remember which one. Anyway, they've been around since at least 2015, possibly going a bit further back. Some of Dragon Dynasty's stuff was licensed from them, such as From Beijing With Love. No clue what gets properly remastered, if anything, and what just uses HD transfers that were already available. I wouldn't be surprised if the restorations are newer and the wonkier transfers are films where HD masters were made 10-15 years ago and then slathered with DNR. Unfortunate but there's not much that can be done.

[chen lung]

Orange Sky Golden Harvest has a website; I believe Gala Film Distribution is their distribution arm. Anyway, I think they're the licensor of this title, and the label probably put out what was given to them (i.e. it's usually the licensor/restoration company responsible for any grain management). Sometimes it's possible to get the raw materials to do it better, but that costs money.

If any label gets 'God of Gamblers III: The Early Stage', I'd like a new restoration to be commissioned to not only restore grain but to fix the grading and false positives in the clean (I think raindrops in one sequence were mistaken for damage).

[The Mole]

I own some of the HK BD releases from Vicol of those Orange Sky Golden harvest movies (incl. GOD OF GAMBLERS, RICH AND FAMOUS and TRAGIC HERO) and the masters provided to Eureka are most likely exactly the same. The only thing Eureka can do better picture quality wise might be the compression. But the DNR and other anomalies like digital noise are already baked into the masters. GOD OF GAMBLERS is one of the few titles that was not very much affected by this. It's sequels and other films in this catalogue did not get away so unscathed.

[Ken81]

Just had a look at this one, quite a nice release from Eureka. Loved the interviews especially, learnt lots of stuff I didn't know before.

The subtitles were good, although I do have a comment on the subs on Rich & Famous. Since I am of Chiu Chow origin, these two movies have a special place in my heart. Especially the opening scenes of part one that actually have some Chiu Chow dialogues. So I just had to check the subtitles on those scenes. Unfortunately some of the translations were still not quite accurate on those particular scenes. I am not really spoiling anything, but will still put spoiler tags on the following just in case Just wanted to explain what was actually being said in the scene:

[Show spoiler]
So in the beginning we see the character of Yeung Kwun carrying 3 bags when he works.
And the guy behind him mocks him: You ****ing fool, are you nuts? You'll break your back.

This is actually wrong, and the subtitles make you kind of think the guy's got empathy for him carrying 3 bags.

What he actually says is: Screw your mom! You want to die (or tired of living)! Others carry 1 bag, you carry 3 bags!

So it sounds more cruel and harsh, as he is plainly mocking him for taking 3 bags, and could also be interpreted as him being jealous that he can actually carry 3 bags.

So there you go, I just wanted to clarify this. I remember watching this with my dad. And he was the one explaining me what the guy was saying, as my Chiu Chow is rusty hehe. Quite nostalgic to me Wish there were more Chiu Chow dialogues in the the two movies though.

[Menteith]

I read that these two films had an original Hong Kong theatrical release in reversed order (due to CYF's popularity at that time). IMDB's release dates seem to confirm this. Is this really true? Did people who watched this in cinema watch part 2 first and a couple of months later part 1?

[The Mole]

I cannot comment on the films being released in reverse order, but what is certain is that in many markets only TRAGIC HERO got a release at all. Eg. in Germany where it was released as CHINA WHITE 2 (CHINA WHITE being the German title of DEADLY SIN). Also the export version was called BLACK VENGEANCE.
International distributors considered RICH AND FAMOUS to be a boring, dialogue-driven Drama with far too less action whereas TRAGIC HERO could be sold as a legit heroic bloodshed extravaganza. To this day RICH AND FAMOUS has never been released in Germany.

[tsetse27]

Originally Posted by Menteith

I read that these two films had an original Hong Kong theatrical release in reversed order (due to CYF's popularity at that time). IMDB's release dates seem to confirm this. Is this really true? Did people who watched this in cinema watch part 2 first and a couple of months later part 1?

I was living in HK at the time. I did remember Tragic Hero was released first and then Rich and Famous.

It was supposed to be one movie, but with the success of A Better Tomorrow, the filmmakers decide to separate the film into two and add the "ending" of Rich and Famous to make it a separate movie.

[Ken81]

For those who haven't watched these movies before, I would recommend watching in chronological order. Rich & Famous first, then Tragic Hero. It flows better, and I am glad I did it. I can't understand how people could enjoy the story by watching it the other way around. But I am curious, to those who watched it in that reverse order originally (or in theatre at the time), how did you experience it?

[The Mole]

Does the plot even make sense if you watch it in reverse order? I mean, there are many characters from the first film that get killed in TRAGIC HERO. If you watch RICH AND FAMOUS second they miraculously are alive again...

[Parsifal]

Originally Posted by Menteith

I read that these two films had an original Hong Kong theatrical release in reversed order (due to CYF's popularity at that time). IMDB's release dates seem to confirm this. Is this really true? Did people who watched this in cinema watch part 2 first and a couple of months later part 1?

Frank Djeng explained this in detail in his commentary but yes TRAGIC HERO was released first, followed by RICH AND FAMOUS about 3-4 months later. They added Alan Tam's character in RICH AND FAMOUS and reshot the ending to smooth things out. The reshoot only took 3 days to film because of Alan's insane schedule at that time. When RICH AND FAMOUS was released some theaters shown TRAGIC HERO again so audiences can view both films.

[CrockettandTubbs]

So if you're a fan of HK action this is still worth picking up, despite the PQ concerns?

Anyways, think I'll leave it for a bit. Picked up quite a bit recently (last month + a 1/2 or so) so lots to be getting on with:

Burning Paradise
The Dead and the Deadly
Magnificent Warriors
Angela Mao double bill
Duel to the Death and
Full Alert

[tsetse27]

Here is an interview of Hong Kong director Fruit Chan, who was one of the Production Assistance (?) for Rich and Famous. Unfortunately there is no English subtitles. From approx. 4:30 min, they discussed the filming of the final sense of Rich and Famous:

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