The Art of Negotiation

[Guinness6]

I have a (speaker) dealer, and I like him a lot. I think his advice has been and honest, helpful and (most of off) suited to my needs. That being said, I'm not trying to make him rich.

I fist bought a Yamaha 765 & Paradigm Mini Monitors from him, and I got a really good deal on both. I feel like I was able to talk him down a bit because he knew I didn't have a lot of $$ so he wanted to make it affordable, but he also knew I could literally walk across the street and buy something similar from their competitor.

I recently bought a sub, and my main bargaining chip was that I could buy any sub, and I auditioned several. I ended up with a Paradigm SE Sub, but told him I was thinking about a B&W (from across the street) and he dropped the price real fast. I may have been able to get him to go a little lower, but I wasn't sure of my next step.

Now, my next purchase (a few months off, but heavy on the brain) will be upgrading the Mini Monitors to Studio 10s or 20s. I told him what I was thinking and he immediately urged me to go with the 20s, whatever, when the time comes I'll listed to them and decide for myself which I prefer. BUT, I know I want to stay with Paradigms.

So (when the time comes) what can say to bring his price down?

What have you said to your dealers?

[jlafrenz]

I am always honest with my dealer about pricing and what I can afford. At the same time, think about all the advice and help he has given you. That does come at a cost and is one way that audio dealers make their money over a retail chain. They are able to offer you knowledge and advice that others can not. Basically what you are doing is just using him for info and then buying the cheapest place you can find. Happens all the time when people purchase things, and not limited to stereo gear. Put yourself in his shoes, if you were selling a product and you spent your time and shared your knowledge with someone would you want to give that out for free or be rewarded with a sale? At some point you have to decide what his advice and knowledge is worth to you. If some place else in town has better pricing, what is keeping you from going there in the first place? There has to be some reason that you go to who you do first.

[Graphite]

I sold cars for 3 years, and furniture for a year.

Simple mindset....can you buy this cheaper elsewhere...YES you can. Can you get the service/knowledge from anyone....no. If you think yes is the answer, you are incorrect. Listening to 15 people on a forum talk about how great their polk's sound without ever auditioning other speakers...how much knowledge did you just gain? None.

Being able to audition them is a value. If the salesperson is knowledgeable about the product he/she is selling...that is a value. Value to price...no. Value to mindset...yes.

If the salesperson has given you their time and knowledge, it is worth something. It's hard to find anymore...people with knowledge. I'm guessing a huge majority of people that come to these forums looking for knowledge end up thinking polk speakers and an onkyo reciever is the cats meow of audio. Nothing wrong with that. This is where it gets difficult. 500 people post a question like "what do you think of XYZ speakers?" It gets answered 5 times. To sift through all the useless garbage of the internet to find good information is difficult. This is why paying a few extra bucks to an actual person is worth it to me.

I just rambled on about nothing...i should just delete the post.

[Guinness6]

Thanks, guys, for your input.

Paying for the expertise is something I hadn't really considered, and not something that really bothers me. I was just wondering what (if any) tactics people have used to get their best price.

I guess what I'm looking for are any lines or tactics others use to get the 'best' price?

[jlafrenz]

Originally Posted by Guinness6

Thanks, guys, for your input.

Paying for the expertise is something I hadn't really considered, and not something that really bothers me. I was just wondering what (if any) tactics people have used to get their best price.

I guess what I'm looking for are any lines or tactics others use to get the 'best' price?

For me, like I said, be honest about what you can afford. If you dealer knows what you have to spend he can recommend something that will fit your budget or be willing to meet you with a discount at your budget. I also refer business to that store and they know I am the one doing so. Perhaps they will thank you for the referrals with a discount. You can always try using the "I will buy online" line, but they know that this doesn't mean much because of the warranty system with online purchases. Some dealers may even take offense to this and not want to deal with you at all. Perhaps you could mention that you are going to buy used gear because of the lower cost. Being straight up with them may help. I also talk about future plans for expansion and upgrades. If a dealer knows there is potential for future business, he may cut you a deal.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Guinness6

Thanks, guys, for your input.

Paying for the expertise is something I hadn't really considered, and not something that really bothers me. I was just wondering what (if any) tactics people have used to get their best price.

I guess what I'm looking for are any lines or tactics others use to get the 'best' price?

Why wouldn't you pay for expertise? It'll probably save you cash in the long run, and dealers have to eat and pay their mortgages too... I mean, we all want a deal--but there's a point where wanting a deal crosses the line to taking the piss. You want your dealer on your side when it comes time to upgrade or when stuff needs repairing: one who will go the extra mile for you. If you squeeze every penny out of them, they're not likely to be as receptive when you need them...

If you really want the cheapest price, try stealing stuff. (Yes, I'm being somewhat fascitious here, but hopefully my point is made...)

[Buddy Christ]

Originally Posted by Guinness6

What have you said to your dealers?

I have said, "can you please zero out the scale" Just kidding some will not get that joke.

This is a trick someone taught me.

1. Get your eye on a product you want.
2. Then find a similar product that lists with a cheaper price.
3. Start to fidget about which one to get. Say things like (about more pricey one) Man I like this but it is just a LITTLE to much for me. But then again this one is good too(second choice)
4. When he sees you toil you might get him to come down a little on the more expensive instead of getting less money out of you for the cheaper. but make sure the prices aren't too close or it won't work

This has worked for different products many times for me. Bottom line they want the most money they can get from you.

[lucv13]

Originally Posted by Blu2U

.

I like your Sig...

My Equipment
Big TV
AVR with bunch of wires
7 speakers and 1 big square one
Game playing Blu-ray machine
Neat universal remote

[HAMP]

Guinness6 question is totally understandable and also everyone response. It would seem that you can’t have both, as one question is asking for the best price and the responses feel that he should maybe pay a little extra for expert advice.

I want to help Guinness6 in his quest for the best price and I think the others should help him also, maybe, just maybe the salesperson is a expert at overcharging and we need to help Guinness6 get the best price, if not the lowest price.

The part that gets me is when ‘the salesman dropped the price real fast’ after hearing about the B&W’s, maybe the salesman was trying to get top dollar before the thought of Guinness6 getting other speakers.

I myself do my best to negotiate each and every time I think I’m going to buy something. My friends come and get me when they are going to go and make a large purchase in hopes that I talk the price down.

My advice Guinness6 in this situation, is not to bluff. Do what you said you were going to do and go talk to the B&W dealer. Really find out what your real options are. This almost reminds me of when I bought my Monitor Audio’s. I was comparing with another store(1 block away) with some B&Ws.

I created a thread talking about my search and it's called Went Speaker Shopping

[jomari]

I guess i can try to give my thoughts about this as well, hoping to focus on the retailers side instead.

As much as we all try to purchase things 'dirt cheap', most mom and pop stores (or non-mainstream companies), offer personalization and knowledge about their product you wont find in the mainstream ones.

If the said retailer was honest enough, and has a great reputation with his pricing schematics, you can probably get it close to his profit margin. Some shoot high on the price tag, but cant accept paying close to what he's paid for. Others would calculate just enough to cover shipping et al, and still have you walk out the door.

You definitely can find a couple of retailers who will sell cheaper. Thats a give in. But whats not included in the price is someone who took the time, and the patience, to assist you in your future endeavors. That alone is worth something, providing dedicated quality customer service isnt found too often these days.

Some times, it aint always about the money. Creating a lasting relationship with a dealer who's honest, and customer focused, can help in the long run.

[Graphite]

Huge case in point about these mom and pop stores. Granted this isn't on audio, the store is focused on remote control cars and helicopters etc.

A buddy of mine could buy his stuff online, heck...sometimes he does. But he always gives the shop a chance. If they get within reason, he'll buy from the shop. That extra money goes a long way when it comes to "perks" he gets from the store. He gets to test products (free), demo products, and other fun things for just being friendly to this small store. Name 1 online company that would send him stuff to demo and send back. NONE.

It's hard to pay big box stores anything over online cost. Most of them don't know what they are selling, and are just waiting until they can punch the clock and go home. There is a big difference in the two...decide what store you are at. That extra 20$ you pay to him builds a relationship. I know ya'll aren't dating...but maybe in the future the store will allow you to take a couple of speakers home to try out in your house before you buy it. That's money well spent.

[AKORIS]

Originally Posted by jlafrenz

I am always honest with my dealer about pricing and what I can afford. At the same time, think about all the advice and help he has given you. That does come at a cost and is one way that audio dealers make their money over a retail chain. They are able to offer you knowledge and advice that others can not. Basically what you are doing is just using him for info and then buying the cheapest place you can find. Happens all the time when people purchase things, and not limited to stereo gear. Put yourself in his shoes, if you were selling a product and you spent your time and shared your knowledge with someone would you want to give that out for free or be rewarded with a sale? At some point you have to decide what his advice and knowledge is worth to you. If some place else in town has better pricing, what is keeping you from going there in the first place? There has to be some reason that you go to who you do first.

I manage a retail specialty store-- thank you for your comments-- they are
appreciated!

[linds_15]

its funny i just wrote an exam on negotiations
what everyone has said above all makes sense and is what you should do

a good way to think of it is like this:

sellers reservation point --> your best alternative -->his best alternative --> your reservation point

when you go in to negotiate have a reservation point in mind of a price you wont go above, and go to that store across the street and find the price of your best alternative....guestimate his best alternative (if he were to sell the same goods to the next guy) and try and get a price within that zone.

realistically your gunna upgrade equipement in the future so its not wise to grind out a couple hundred $ when you could potentially have a positive relationship in the future

[ChadFL]

I've actually never bought anything from a high-end home theatre store so I wouldn't know how they operate. I've bought all my gear online thus far. I might when I buy my next set of speakers sometime down the road. Do they really operate like a car dealership? Can you typically negotiate them down very much in price. It just seems hard to determine what a good price is for say Paradigm or B&W when you can't readily find what they go for online.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

I've actually never bought anything from a high-end home theatre store so I wouldn't know how they operate. I've bought all my gear online thus far. I might when I buy my next set of speakers sometime down the road. Do they really operate like a car dealership? Can you typically negotiate them down very much in price. It just seems hard to determine what a good price is for say Paradigm or B&W when you can't readily find what they go for online.

Well I wouldn't necessarily say "down very much in price", but yes, high end dealers do have some flexibility with their pricing, though of course they don't have the economies of scale that places like Best Buy have.

I look at it this way: if I'm buying a piece of speciality equipment (be it audio or something else), I'd rather go to a specialist dealer. I like to support local, independant businesses, and I don't mind payaing a reasonable premium of "rock bottom" prices to get expert advice. For example, if I go to a camera store, I know that the person I'm speaking with knows a thing or two about cameras. In a big box store, today's camera "expert" was last weeks washing machine expert for all I know. If I'm gonna drop serious coin on a piece of gear, I want to know that the person advising actually has a clue.

[jlafrenz]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

I've actually never bought anything from a high-end home theatre store so I wouldn't know how they operate. I've bought all my gear online thus far. I might when I buy my next set of speakers sometime down the road. Do they really operate like a car dealership? Can you typically negotiate them down very much in price. It just seems hard to determine what a good price is for say Paradigm or B&W when you can't readily find what they go for online.

It is going to depend on the dealer. Some may be willing to wheel and deal on a product if they have had it in inventory for a while and want to get rid of it. Those products cost and tie up money from being spent on other gear that may be a bigger seller. If you build a relationship with a dealer, you will find that many may even tell you that they are wanting to move some product and looking to discount it. Some may not because it is already a hot seller at its price, or they are the only ones around that carry that line. Speaker manufacturers know who carries what in certain areas and do their best not to saturate the market and allow cut throat pricing. Also, I wouldn't expect a discount on a brand new product (new model release).

[Guinness6]

Thanks, everyone, for your comments.

I'm pretty committed to the dealer, I strongly believe in supporting local businesses (which he is part of).

I just read some comments where people said that a good relationship with a reputable dealer could warrant up to 25% off msrp. Just trying to figure how to get close to that, though looking back he's been fair (not near 25%, but a good discount) from the beginning.

[jomari]

Originally Posted by richteer

Well I wouldn't necessarily say "down very much in price", but yes, high end dealers do have some flexibility with their pricing, though of course they don't have the economies of scale that places like Best Buy have.

I look at it this way: if I'm buying a piece of speciality equipment (be it audio or something else), I'd rather go to a specialist dealer. I like to support local, independant businesses, and I don't mind payaing a reasonable premium of "rock bottom" prices to get expert advice. For example, if I go to a camera store, I know that the person I'm speaking with knows a thing or two about cameras. In a big box store, today's camera "expert" was last weeks washing machine expert for all I know. If I'm gonna drop serious coin on a piece of gear, I want to know that the person advising actually has a clue.

Thus the premium im sure a number of us are willing to forego.

This is a business by the way, we cant support enough of em already, they die out and wither...

I still go to a dedicated bike shop place, a HT place, and well, a pawnshop around my area, just to buy stuff i er... basically dont need.

[Graphite]

Originally Posted by Guinness6

I just read some comments where people said that a good relationship with a reputable dealer could warrant up to 25% off msrp. Just trying to figure how to get close to that, though looking back he's been fair (not near 25%, but a good discount) from the beginning.

Not all dealers run the same price points. Some go for the shotgun approach, alot of little sales add up. Others run a howizter cannon approach, a couple here and there add up big.