Questions for those of you going neutral

[cartier]

Some topics and comments made on the forums about people going both ways have caused me to become a little confused, some insight would be appreciated. While these questions take into account certain assumptions on my part please feel free to modify them/expand upon them in your answers to reflect your assumptions.

1) Why did you support Blu-ray in the first place?

2) If you did so because you thought it was better why would be so willing to use an inferior technology like HD-DVD?

3) Why not just up-convert the DVD on your Blu-ray player instead of spending money on a format you thought to be inferior just a few days ago?

It seems illogical to buy a $300+ HD-DVD player (I am talking about a 1080p player not the $200 720p/1080i) just to watch a few movies that will also be available on DVD and can be up-converted instead.

4) In saying that you are also getting an HD-DVD player are you saying that the marginal difference between HD-DVD and an up-converted DVD is worth $300+ and the additional cost of buying the HD-DVD movies over the DVD?

5) Lastly, what are you giving up in order to buy this HD-DVD player? In other words what future purchases are less valuable to you than an HD-DVD player today, that were more valuable to you before the Paramount announcement? I'm an economics guy and that is why I ask.

These are just a few questions I have for those of you who are deciding/thinking about going both-ways. Thank you for your input and responses.

[TJandBLU-RAY]

1) Why did you support Blu-ray in the first place?
I don't; I just support my need for movies in the best possible format, and right now, that is BD and HD-DVD, since both are better then standard DVD. And I have been doing this a tad longer then some...

2) If you did so because you thought it was better why would be so willing to use an inferior technology like HD-DVD?
The picture quality is equal, and the sound the same. In fact, the menus tend to load faster with HD-DVD. I have a eight foot screen, and I can't see the difference. Now, that is not to say that the capacity of BD is not better; it is. You can obviously hold more with BD. And I still think, that BD will win, which is fine with me. As long as High Def wins, it's fine with me.

But all in all, again, both formats are better then even up scaling DVD.

3) Why not just up-convert the DVD on your Blu-ray player instead of spending money on a format you thought to be inferior just a few days ago?

I have a up scaling DVD player for my DVD's, I have a BD player for my BD's, and a HD-DVD player for my HD-DVD's. I also have a SACD player for those discs. Heck, I even have a turn table for my records. Point? I have what I need to do what I want. (and longer then yesterday, for what it's worth)

4) In saying that you are also getting an HD-DVD player are you saying that the marginal difference between HD-DVD and an up-converted DVD is worth $300+ and the additional cost of buying the HD-DVD movies over the DVD?

Sure, but again, to each his/her own. It's not like this is medicine. I mean, we are talking about a luxury item that most people can't afford anyway.

5) Lastly, what are you giving up in order to buy this HD-DVD player? In other words what future purchases are less valuable to you than an HD-DVD player today, that were more valuable to you before the Paramount announcement? I'm an economics guy and that is why I ask.

I don't profit from Paramount, and I do profit from Sony. (Stock in the later).

I don't see this is a big deal. In 18 months or so, when the furor dies down, Paramount will be BD again. IF High Def is still around. The war here should not be between HD/BD, it should be both of those against DVD, which is still the massive winner.

We, the High Def owners, are so in the minority here. And this war, if remains unchecked, will kill the infant. The infant being the just beginning High Def format.

[IamNhobdy]

I've been wondering the same thing. I personally chose Blu and will stay Blu. The specs are just better. I'm a firm believer in the power of the consumers and if we want Blu, they'll eventually have no choice but to cave to us.

TJ, HD/BD cannot fight DVD together, because the average consumer will not adopt either hi def media format as long as they are in competetion. If you want Hi Def media to survive at all, you need to pick a side and contribute to the end of this war, not prolonging it. I don't care which side you choose, but this dual format is death to HD optical disks and that was the MS plan all along. They want you to say " I can't decide which disk to buy, so I'll just pay MS to download them all to my cumputer because I want them now."

[Chris Gerhard]

I bought both immediately to see first hand which format is better, not just technical specifications but actually better in the real world. Both are great in my opinion, but Blu-ray is better, although the Paramount and Warner releases are obviously identical in quality between formats. My reason to want Blu-ray to succeed and HD DVD to fail is my past experience watching format wars that result in consumer confusion and reluctance to get involved and usually both formats fail to gain a market that can result in profits. No profits soon means no format. I had hoped Blu-ray could prevail by sheer power with the lopsided nature of the support. Now, all Blu-ray can do is outsell HD DVD, but can no longer hope to vanquish the format so I just say everybody buy both and enjoy the run, something will be coming that will replace 5" shiny discs and these two formats can only exist as tiny niche products for their duration.

It isn't really a big deal, things would have been much better if only Blu-ray survived and all companies competed to build the best hardware and offer the best software, but it just wasn't to be. I have no idea why Toshiba and Microsoft want HD DVD to hang around and spoil the market for HD on disc, but they do and it can't be because HD DVD can actually prevail in this idiotic format war. Maybe the gigantic revenue stream for Toshiba from DVD is being protected, maybe the future of whatever Microsoft is developing is being protected, I could only speculate. I do know that I don't like it one bit.

The difference between DVD and HD DVD is worth it to me, but might not be worth it to others as the difference between DVD and Blu-ray might not be worth it to others. The margin is apparent with my 100" screen and 720p LCD projector and would be even more worthwhile if I had a 1080p display.

HD DVD is inferior to Blu-ray, but not so much that it would matter to the market. I am happy with DVD, so HD DVD is even better. Any money spent on this hobby if you have more important needs is money foolishly spent. I do without vacations and trips and prefer to spend money on this stuff and stay home and enjoy it and play golf with my leisure time.

We are screwed now, the format war can't be won and you can either enjoy the brief period these great formats exist or avoid HD DVD to indicate your displeasure. Low priced HD DVD players and exclusive Paramount, Universal, Dreamworks, and Weinstein software means too much is missing for Blu-ray to end this idiocy. Sad but true.

Chris

[cartier]

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

We are screwed now, the format war can't be won and you can either enjoy the brief period these great formats exist or avoid HD DVD to indicate your displeasure. Low priced HD DVD players and exclusive Paramount, Universal, Dreamworks, and Weinstein software means too much is missing for Blu-ray to end this idiocy. Sad but true.

Chris

I disagree, the format war can be won, it will just likely take longer. People do not have to decide to go HD-DVD in order to get Paramount, Universal, Dreamworks, and Weinstein movies they can still see them on DVD, and upconvert if so deisred. The same is true for the Blu-ray exclusive studios' movies and HD-DVD owners. These people can also rent them on DVD and wait until they are on Blu-ray. It is what people have done for movies that are not available on either format and my impression from them has been they are impressed, just not as much so when compared to movies with true 1080p and PCM audio on equipment capable of demonstrating these capabilities.

[XanderAE]

I've really struggled the past 2 days on whether to go neutral or not.

Unfortunately, now Paramount have gone HD DVD, the buys i wish to make are now split even between this and Blu-ray, whereas before it was virtually all Blu-ray due to Paramounts neutrality.

But I have decided that it is still just too risky to buy into a format that i still don't have much hope for, and will make use of the DVDs until i'm truly convinced the future market will be dual-formats. I have set myself a time when I will analyse the state of affairs and perhaps go neutral: no earlier than 2009! Alot can happen in a year, and if things are like they are now at the start of '09, I will be going dual!

[partridge]

I have a PS3, it's all I need. I've no interest in buying an HD-DVD player, so any films that aren't on blu-ray, I'll pick up on DVD and watch them upscaled.

[ground chuck]

Originally Posted by cartier

Some topics and comments made on the forums about people going both ways have caused me to become a little confused, some insight would be appreciated. While these questions take into account certain assumptions on my part please feel free to modify them/expand upon them in your answers to reflect your assumptions.

1) Why did you support Blu-ray in the first place?

2) If you did so because you thought it was better why would be so willing to use an inferior technology like HD-DVD?

3) Why not just up-convert the DVD on your Blu-ray player instead of spending money on a format you thought to be inferior just a few days ago?

It seems illogical to buy a $300+ HD-DVD player (I am talking about a 1080p player not the $200 720p/1080i) just to watch a few movies that will also be available on DVD and can be up-converted instead.

4) In saying that you are also getting an HD-DVD player are you saying that the marginal difference between HD-DVD and an up-converted DVD is worth $300+ and the additional cost of buying the HD-DVD movies over the DVD?

5) Lastly, what are you giving up in order to buy this HD-DVD player? In other words what future purchases are less valuable to you than an HD-DVD player today, that were more valuable to you before the Paramount announcement? I'm an economics guy and that is why I ask.

These are just a few questions I have for those of you who are deciding/thinking about going both-ways. Thank you for your input and responses.

my ps3 made me go blu. unlike most of the ignornant f*cks that bought a ps3 and didn't know it had blu-ray play, i knew and i love my blu. i love my blu even more on my 1080p tv. i wouldn't trade it for anything that's on the market right now.

so i re-pose the question to you why the hell would i go neutral to extend a format war. get some stones and throw down some dollars to support the latest technolgy. don't be scared off b/c some corporate monkeys decided to go left when they should have got right.

IMO anyone that goes neutral now, is just prolonging the format war and i hope you spend lots of extra money on a dying format just to have a few movie titles that aren't on BD yet.

[moweeis]

Supporters stick around through good AND bad. going neutral for a few movies just shows they weren't a supporter

[Croweyes1121]

I refuse to go neutral for one reason and one reason only: it will only aid in perpetuating the format war even further and hurt the chances of either format coming out a winner in the end. I might get every title I want in the short term, but I'll ultimately be losing out on ANY high definition titles, and I will not contribute to that happening. Trust me, it's very very tempting for me at this point to just say "oh, screw it!" and go neutral and get my Paramount / Dreamworks / Universal titles if I want to see them in hi def and let the studios flip-flop all they want and laugh in their faces - and the faces of those getting pissed off about it - as they do. Thing is, that move is very selfish and it does nothing to stop the war. It just serves to make the split that much more defined and dividing - and damaging - to home video and optical disc media in general. I want high definition optical discs to stick around. It sucks to have to pick a side, but I already picked my side when I bought my PS3 and I'm not going to contribute to the demise of both formats now that the future is less certain or I risk being the CAUSE of it getting even MORE SO in the future. Thing is, IF - and this is a big if - but IF HD DVD wins, then guess what? We're all going to end up with HD DVD players ANYWAY. Are we so spineless and self-serving here at blu-ray.com as a community that we can't hold out on buying movies that - let's be honest - MOST OF US ALREADY OWN until one format comes out of this victorious? Well, that's just sad. And it's exactly what Microsoft wants to happen. And it's exactly why I will not go neutral. Ever. If the tide turns so drastically that we're all watching high definition on HD DVD discs, so be it. I'll be happy as a pig in shit as long as ONE format survives this fiasco. I don't have to watch my hi def movies on Blu-Ray discs to be happy. But going neutral now jeopardizes everything for everyone who cares about HD at home, and I refuse to look back in a year and wish I'd not been a contributing factor to the death of the greatest thing to ever happen to home entertainment.

[cartier]

Originally Posted by ground chuck

so i re-pose the question to you why the hell would i go neutral to extend a format war. get some stones and throw down some dollars to support the latest technolgy. don't be scared off b/c some corporate monkeys decided to go left when they should have got right.

IMO anyone that goes neutral now, is just prolonging the format war and i hope you spend lots of extra money on a dying format just to have a few movie titles that aren't on BD yet.

I am not advocating going neutral. I agree with you. I am a loyal Blu supporter, PS3 owner, owner of a beautiful 60in Sony 1080p TV.

I was trying to understand the thought process of those who are going or thinking about going neutral. After analyzing the situation going neutral is illogical and from what I have read most people seem to be making statements about going neutral for emotional rather than rationalized reasons. Emotional buyers tend to experience buyers remorse, and limit their observations to how it directly affect them and not the negative externalities their actions create.

I hope this answers your question to me, but feel free to send me a message if you would like further clarification on my position or reasoning for posing the questions to the forum.

[rsound]

I'm sticking with Blu Ray. I have HBO HD (most of Universal releases are on HBO) and the Universal channel. As far as the Parmount films Showtime shows a lot of them in HD. Not going neut.

[JLaSoul]

All I know is that I'm stayin' blu. For one I think it's a better format in all ways, and cause' as much money as I have spent on these movies, I'll be damned if it all goes to waste and would dread to rebuy the movies all over again on the other format cause' I'm one of them folks that have to have it all the same. Stay Blu Homies.

[atomik kinder]

I started neutral. Actually I bought the HD DVD player just a couple of weeks before I got the PS3. I only have 3 HD DVD movies and can't see myself buying any more. I had decided I was going Blu-ray exclusive because Blu-ray offered more in terms of movies, and in my opinion it still does. There have been a few exclusive HD DVD titles that I had been tempted to buy, but knowing that the longer this format war continues, the less chance there will be for either format to become mainstream. (neither is mainstream now because most people have never even heard of either, except for maybe in passing in a commercial). I will support Blu-ray and not purchase another HD DVD!

[jctash]

I look at it this way.... why go nuetral if I like the bluray product. The movies are generally cheaper than HD-DVD, the player comes with my PS3. I can't justify spending 200-300 bucks just so I can watch transformers on hi def. I'd rather wait for it to come out on HBO HD before I buy something thats 1080i. Transformers is good but not good enough for me to chase my home theater.

[The Bus]

I'm a fan of movies, not technology. Anyone who "chooses" a format over the other knowing full well you can't get >75% of movies on any one is a fan of a certain company or technology. And that's fine.

None of these companies are small, and none of them are going to give up. There's going to be a "format war" at least through 2008, if not further. Sony, Toshiba, everyone, has too much invested in this to quit so early in when HD is only a miniscule portion of the market.

Personally, I'd rather watch HD content as soon as possible. Even if one format "fails" it doesn't mean the movies stop working.

More than likely if the "war" is protracted, it will mean that a majority of players will be combo players and you won't have "lost" anything by buying movies in the format that "lost".

The bright side to all this is that as a consumer, the hardware's prices and specs are far beyond what we might have expected if there was only one format.

Now the studios need to release catalog titles at an MSRP of $19.99 so we can get them for $15 or less in stores.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by TJandBLU-RAY

1) Why did you support Blu-ray in the first place?
I don't; I just support my need for movies in the best possible format, and right now, that is BD and HD-DVD, since both are better then standard DVD. And I have been doing this a tad longer then some...

2) If you did so because you thought it was better why would be so willing to use an inferior technology like HD-DVD?
The picture quality is equal, and the sound the same. In fact, the menus tend to load faster with HD-DVD. I have a eight foot screen, and I can't see the difference. Now, that is not to say that the capacity of BD is not better; it is. You can obviously hold more with BD. And I still think, that BD will win, which is fine with me. As long as High Def wins, it's fine with me.

I totally agree! The main reason I own both a Blu-ray player and an HD DVD player is because I wanted the best, and for me that includes both formats. I have compared many Blu-ray and HD DVD's (same titles), and the image quality and sound was identical. Another reason I have both players is because I wanted movies from all of the studios offering high def. So for me and others like me who own players for both formats, it doesn't really matter who wins. But I can see where some of you are coming from.

For those who only own a Blu-ray player and were looking forward to some of the upcoming titles from Paramount and Dreamworks, well now in order to do that they will have to invest in an HD DVD player. And not a lot of people are too keen on that idea.


Seth

[cartier]

Originally Posted by The Bus

The bright side to all this is that as a consumer, the hardware's prices and specs are far beyond what we might have expected if there was only one format.

Actually, this is a common misconception. If there was only one format then it would be priced by the first company to market and as long as they were making a profit other companies would enter the market making a similar product. Or devise a way to make it less expensive while selling it at a profit. Then this competition among the same type of players would force prices down. Instead you have Toshiba the only real producers of HD-DVD players that is selling them at a loss. This discourages other companies from entering the market because they can't make any money.