Raajneeti BD Review - Blu-ray Forum

anibap · 09-21-2010, 11:37 AM

Raajneeti BD Review – UK Version

The Movie
One of the biggest hits of the year. The movie is based on a subject every Indian can relate to or connect to in some form or other whether they are interested in Raajneeti or not. On top of that the movie is deliberaletly made in the lines of the great epic Mahabharata. So how does it fare in my opinion?

The movie in the first 45 mins was looking quite promising with the story gradually building up, engaging but after that it became quite predicatable and flat. After 45 mions it became more of a story which was just going forward in set piece model and you could see what's coming next. One big criticism from me is the movie diverted from Raajneeti to mere large scale feud between the family members of two powerful siblings under the slowly vanishing theme of the term 'Raajneeti' The script and the story just gave up after some time and I couldn't connect. One of the reason for that is because of the directors intent to align it to Mahabharata which is again based on the feud between two powerful siblings and their progeny. The difference is that Mahabharata always kept the bigger picture in the story and Raajneeti fell short of that trying to derive from it whereas politics is much more dynamic now than it is shown. At time it was looking like these two families represent India as a whole.

I noticed many flaws and don't want to discuss it here as it is BD forum.

However, it was a decent watch and was something different. Some other highlights and lowlights are
+ Points

Amazing background score
Nice songs but you may need to listen to them quite a few times to appreciate the songs. Wayne Sharpe has done a wonderful job.
Excellent cinematography - really liked it
Although limityed but special effects were great. No scenes with cars doing mid air gymnastics (typical Indian movies do that most often). The car bomb scenes were really well done .
Good acting from most of the cast - Ranbir and Nana patekar was really good. It was great to Nana Patekar not doing the crazy fellow act and he blended into the character really well. Ranbir is improving in every film.

- Points

Katrina still can't act. She got a very different role this time and she tried but she was looking very out of place compared to others (not by looks but acting).
Ajay Devgan in his usual form and no improvisation. It appears that he can be lifted out from one movie to another movie with th esame stone face he uses for his serious movies. Once I liked Ajay but he is becoming monotonous day by day. He needs to bring variation.
Manoj Bajpai was good but he could have been much better. I expected more from him.

Blu-Ray Review
After seeing some screenshots, a lot of arguement here and clarification from Chandna, I was really loking forward to actually seeing the BD myself. This is my observation.

Picture Quality
+ Points

Filmic picture quality
Nice warm color temp as intended by the director and it looks great. Prakash should have used such color temp in Apaharan as well.
Black levels in 80-90% scenes were perfect
Saturation is quite vibrant in most scenes.
Detail is good but at times it was lost due to picture softness and apparent DNR (more on that later)
Nice and clean image

- Points

DNR or Source issue? – Many scenes appear semi waxy and soft and I am not sure if the source was like that. I must say that it looks much better than the screenshots. I know for sure that Chandna and his team did not apply any DNR during authoring. It could be the source. I also recall that Sanjay mentioned something bad about the source. Some scenes looked absolutely sharp and detailed but many scenes appeared soft and waxy. The same range closeups at times were spot on and you can see the facial texture clearly but in another scene it appeared flat with the same character.
Would like to hear Chandna's thought on this.I must say that this issue did not bother me as much while watching the film.
The thing that bothered me most is false contouring in many scenes. It is not of a high degree but I couldn't help myself but notice it. If you look closely, you could see false contour around the outline of shoulder, arms,faces etc. This was very distracting for me. This normally comes from Edge enhancement, color banding or lens defect. I also know that Chandna didn't apply any EE as they don't have the feature in the software they use. My question is is that a lens issue or source issue?
Some daylight scenes look bit bright with slightly raised black level. I think DEI recreates the source faithfully without any processing so this must have remained the same as with the source.
Some scenes have less color saturation compared to the rest of the movie. Not many but a few.

I do not have a PC based BD player otherwise I could have posted some screenshots with the issues I mentioned.

Audio Quality
The DTS MA track is a treat for the ears. This is one of the finest Audio tracks from a Bollywood BD. Dialogues were spot on and directional. The use of LFE is fabulous and it is not overpowering. It creates a wonderful base for the soundstage and you get the feeling of being in a sound capsule where each and every sound is distinctly heard. The track is loud like most bollywood movies but restrained to a good balance. Rears are used throughout the film and it creates an immersive environment. The LFE is fantastic.

My only gripe is that rears are slightly louder than they should be. At times it takes over the fronts (since they are close to your ears) which I felt was not right. It is a small gripe but I really enjoyed the Audio on the BD. Excellent. Great job from Chandna and his team.

Conclusion:
To me, the PQ is very good but not reference level. The two issues I mentioned takes away few points from what what could have a been a reference level BD in PQ terms. I have seen mixed views from people who have seen the BD.

As for the Audio, it is nealry flawless apart from a minor niggle on slightly louder rears. If you have a proper 5.1 AV setup, this is going to be your one of you reference BD for AQ.

Peace

Ani

My Rating
Movie: 3.75
Video: 3.75
Audio: 4.5 [B]
Overall Quality Score: 3.75

Review done with
Display : Infocus IN82 Full HD DC3 DLP Projector
Screen: 90”
BD Player: Sony S350
Av Amp: Denon AVR 1911 7.1 AV Receiver
Speakers: Q Acoustics 1010i 5.1 Surround

Ferhan · 09-21-2010, 11:58 AM

What source is the HD? DPX, HDcamSR or D5?

chandna · 09-21-2010, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferhan

What source is the HD? DPX, HDcamSR or D5?

Hi
I dont use any 4 2 2 source. D5 is 4 2 2 . I use only HDCAMSR 4 4 4 and DPX as source
chandna

anibap · 09-21-2010, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chandna

Hi
thanks for the reviews. We have not used any filter for any correction. We have used the source as is. I presume that perhaps director wanted like this. He saw and approved too.

I am creating a BD with 13 videos. Encoded with same bit rates/ No Filters used/but source captured in 13 different methods and various encoders used. It will guide us the perfect capturing method and which is the better encoder among the 3 best in world.

The same source has been used for Netflix streaming, HDTV Broadcast in various countries too

Very soon I will post the links of encoded video for your reference and comments.

Further No DNR is required for New Movies at all. I dont think anyone might be using DNR for new movies.It all depends upon the POV of the director.

Thanks for the clarification Chandna. I know that you don't add DNR or EE. I didn't see this in the theatre so I won't be able to tell if it looked like this. Sanjay from Zulm did mention that even on a new 2K projection it had the same issues. It seems the source is like that.

I would like to ask you something on the audio. Why is the HD audio in Indian BDs much louder than most Hollywood movies? Do you do anything to enhance this or is it encoded in as-is from from the source?

divyansh · 09-21-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anibap

Raajneeti BD Review – UK Version

The Movie
One of the biggest hits of the year. The movie is based on a subject every Indian can relate to or connect to in some form or other whether they are interested in Raajneeti or not. On top of that the movie is deliberaletly made in the lines of the great epic Mahabharata. So how does it fare in my opinion?

The movie in the first 45 mins was looking quite promising with the story gradually building up, engaging but after that it became quite predicatable and flat. After 45 mions it became more of a story which was just going forward in set piece model and you could see what's coming next. One big criticism from me is the movie diverted from Raajneeti to mere large scale feud between the family members of two powerful siblings under the slowly vanishing theme of the term 'Raajneeti' The script and the story just gave up after some time and I couldn't connect. One of the reason for that is because of the directors intent to align it to Mahabharata which is again based on the feud between two powerful siblings and their progeny. The difference is that Mahabharata always kept the bigger picture in the story and Raajneeti fell short of that trying to derive from it whereas politics is much more dynamic now than it is shown. At time it was looking like these two families represent India as a whole.

I noticed many flaws and don't want to discuss it here as it is BD forum.

However, it was a decent watch and was something different. Some other highlights and lowlights are
+ Points

Amazing background score
Nice songs but you may need to listen to them quite a few times to appreciate the songs. Wayne Sharpe has done a wonderful job.
Excellent cinematography - really liked it
Although limityed but special effects were great. No scenes with cars doing mid air gymnastics (typical Indian movies do that most often). The car bomb scenes were really well done .
Good acting from most of the cast - Ranbir and Nana patekar was really good. It was great to Nana Patekar not doing the crazy fellow act and he blended into the character really well. Ranbir is improving in every film.

- Points

Katrina still can't act. She got a very different role this time and she tried but she was looking very out of place compared to others (not by looks but acting).
Ajay Devgan in his usual form and no improvisation. It appears that he can be lifted out from one movie to another movie with th esame stone face he uses for his serious movies. Once I liked Ajay but he is becoming monotonous day by day. He needs to bring variation.
Manoj Bajpai was good but he could have been much better. I expected more from him.

Blu-Ray Review
After seeing some screenshots, a lot of arguement here and clarification from Chandna, I was really loking forward to actually seeing the BD myself. This is my observation.

Picture Quality
+ Points

Filmic picture quality
Nice warm color temp as intended by the director and it looks great. Prakash should have used such color temp in Apaharan as well.
Black levels in 80-90% scenes were perfect
Saturation is quite vibrant in most scenes.
Detail is good but at times it was lost due to picture softness and apparent DNR (more on that later)
Nice and clean image

- Points

DNR or Source issue? – Many scenes appear semi waxy and soft and I am not sure if the source was like that. I must say that it looks much better than the screenshots. I know for sure that Chandna and his team did not apply any DNR during authoring. It could be the source. I also recall that Sanjay mentioned something bad about the source. Some scenes looked absolutely sharp and detailed but many scenes appeared soft and waxy. The same range closeups at times were spot on and you can see the facial texture clearly but in another scene it appeared flat with the same character.
Would like to hear Chandna's thought on this.I must say that this issue did not bother me as much while watching the film.
The thing that bothered me most is false contouring in many scenes. It is not of a high degree but I couldn't help myself but notice it. If you look closely, you could see false contour around the outline of shoulder, arms,faces etc. This was very distracting for me. This normally comes from Edge enhancement, color banding or lens defect. I also know that Chandna didn't apply any EE as they don't have the feature in the software they use. My question is is that a lens issue or source issue?
Some daylight scenes look bit bright with slightly raised black level. I think DEI recreates the source faithfully without any processing so this must have remained the same as with the source.
Some scenes have less color saturation compared to the rest of the movie. Not many but a few.

I do not have a PC based BD player otherwise I could have posted some screenshots with the issues I mentioned.

Audio Quality
The DTS MA track is a treat for the ears. This is one of the finest Audio tracks from a Bollywood BD. Dialogues were spot on and directional. The use of LFE is fabulous and it is not overpowering. It creates a wonderful base for the soundstage and you get the feeling of being in a sound capsule where each and every sound is distinctly heard. The track is loud like most bollywood movies but restrained to a good balance. Rears are used throughout the film and it creates an immersive environment. The LFE is fantastic.

My only gripe is that rears are slightly louder than they should be. At times it takes over the fronts (since they are close to your ears) which I felt was not right. It is a small gripe but I really enjoyed the Audio on the BD. Excellent. Great job from Chandna and his team.

Conclusion:
To me, the PQ is very good but not reference level. The two issues I mentioned takes away few points from what what could have a been a reference level BD in PQ terms. I have seen mixed views from people who have seen the BD.

As for the Audio, it is nealry flawless apart from a minor niggle on slightly louder rears. If you have a proper 5.1 AV setup, this is going to be your one of you reference BD for AQ.

Peace

Ani

My Rating
Movie: 3.75
Video: 3.75
Audio: 4.5 [B]
Overall Quality Score: 3.75

Review done with
Display : Infocus IN82 Full HD DC3 DLP Projector
Screen: 90”
BD Player: Sony S350
Av Amp: Denon AVR 1911 7.1 AV Receiver
Speakers: Q Acoustics 1010i 5.1 Surround

totally agree with this review and i also said all this in my verdict a little while ago....

and yes i had also mentioned that audio was reference quality and credit for this should go to the sound team and mixer leslie fernandes which i have mentioned several times is the best sound mixer.......and not to mr chandana as he has nothing to do with the audio
and as mr chandana has clarified that the source was dnr-ed so its not his fault at all........he is the best blu ray encoder of bollywood........iam sure that all the new bhv releases that he has encoded will be excellent......
keep the good work mr chandna...and happy birthday...!!!

kailashu · 09-21-2010, 03:50 PM

@ani - I beg to differ on the PQ rating. I would barely give the PQ a rating of 3, 2.5 may be. The false contouring and waxy issue makes the BD look like an upscaled HD. The depth and detail was lost because of the excessive DNR applied to the source.

anibap · 09-21-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by divyansh

totally agree with this review and i also said all this in my verdict a little while ago....

and yes i had also mentioned that audio was reference quality and credit for this should go to the sound team and mixer leslie fernandes which i have mentioned several times is the best sound mixer.......and not to mr chandana as he has nothing to do with the audio
and as mr chandana has clarified that the source was dnr-ed so its not his fault at all........he is the best blu ray encoder of bollywood........iam sure that all the new bhv releases that he has encoded will be excellent......
keep the good work mr chandna...and happy birthday...!!!

Of course the credit goes to whoever mixed the audio in the movie. I think DEI did a good job in keeping it just like that - faithful to the source.

Happy Birthday Chandna...wish you all the best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kailashu

@ani - I beg to differ on the PQ rating. I would barely give the PQ a rating of 3, 2.5 may be. The false contouring and waxy issue makes the BD look like an upscaled HD. The depth and detail was lost because of the excessive DNR applied to the source.

@Kailashu, I know what you mean but I gave the rating based on the condition of the source. Although not sure why such a recent movie would have this kind of issues. Since no authoring house in India goes into the post processing route, I guess Chandna and his team had nothing to with it.

Thats why I raised the question if anyone has seen the movie in the theatre and if it looked like that. Sanjay mentioned that it looked bad in theatre so keeping that in mind getting a reference quality was something difficult to achieve and hence my rating.

I was more distracted by the false contours around the body of characters in the film.

chandna · 09-21-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by divyansh

as mr chandana has clarified that the source was dnr-ed so its not his fault at all........he is the best blu ray encoder of bollywood........iam sure that all the new bhv releases that he has encoded will be excellent......
keep the good work mr chandna...and happy birthday...!!!

Thanks for the blessings.I never mentioned that source was DNRed/Rather I mentioned that for New movies no DNR is required.I presume that what you saw is a Director's POV.

vveksuvarna · 09-21-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chandna

Hi
I dont use any 4 2 2 source. D5 is 4 2 2 . I use only HDCAMSR 4 4 4 and DPX as source
chandna

Good to know you are working with 4:4:4.

Thanks !

zoran · 09-21-2010, 05:58 PM

Great Review! I bookmarked it

kailashu · 09-21-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anibap

Of course the credit goes to whoever mixed the audio in the movie. I think DEI did a good job in keeping it just like that - faithful to the source.

Happy Birthday Chandna...wish you all the best.

@Kailashu, I know what you mean but I gave the rating based on the condition of the source. Although not sure why such a recent movie would have this kind of issues. Since no authoring house in India goes into the post processing route, I guess Chandna and his team had nothing to with it.

Thats why I raised the question if anyone has seen the movie in the theatre and if it looked like that. Sanjay mentioned that it looked bad in theatre so keeping that in mind getting a reference quality was something difficult to achieve and hence my rating.

I was more distracted by the false contours around the body of characters in the film.

Guess Prakash Jha thought when he was paying so much for DNR why not make the fullest use of it. He just DNRed the crap out of this movie.

@anibap - I know what you mean brotha

But honestly I almost threw up looking at the PQ for such a recent movie. WAX MUSEUM..ROFL. Thank God I decided to rent it from Netflix before I made the plunge.

anibap · 09-22-2010, 11:16 AM

I just had a look at the BD yesterday night and I must say I have been a bit lenient with my rating on PQ but it was based on my understanding that the source was not very good to start with.

I am quite sensitive and ruthless to PQ issues and I would still say the so called DNRed look didn't bother me as much as the other issue of banding and false contouring and ringing effect. If you watch the whole movie you will understand what I am saying.

Since I do not have a PC BD drive to capture scenes, I am using one of Bollywoodbluray's screenshot to illustrate the effect. The following 100% cropped portions demonstrate the issue. The issue might appear slightly amplified in the SS due to wrong capture method but there is no denying that the effect is there.

If you notice the edges of the characters, you can notice how distracting it can look like. This problem is often seen with DVDs (Bolly and Holly ones) due to edge enhancement applied and limitations on color bit depth but with BD this is not acceptable (Although many Bolly and Holly BDs suffer from this issue and at least the Holly forums has been very vocal about that and they managed to get a few remastered versions. Gladiator is the best example of all).

This problem is quite prominent in the Raajneeti BD. Since we all know that the issue was not introduced during authoring, I am quite intrigued to know how it got introduced in the source. One possibilty is when the posprocessing of film was done but I must say it is quite unusual.

09-21-2010, 11:37 AM	#1
anibap Special Member Member since:Jan 2009 Location:London, UK Home Theater Gallery:30 Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:1	Raajneeti BD Review Raajneeti BD Review – UK Version The Movie One of the biggest hits of the year. The movie is based on a subject every Indian can relate to or connect to in some form or other whether they are interested in Raajneeti or not. On top of that the movie is deliberaletly made in the lines of the great epic Mahabharata. So how does it fare in my opinion? The movie in the first 45 mins was looking quite promising with the story gradually building up, engaging but after that it became quite predicatable and flat. After 45 mions it became more of a story which was just going forward in set piece model and you could see what's coming next. One big criticism from me is the movie diverted from Raajneeti to mere large scale feud between the family members of two powerful siblings under the slowly vanishing theme of the term 'Raajneeti' The script and the story just gave up after some time and I couldn't connect. One of the reason for that is because of the directors intent to align it to Mahabharata which is again based on the feud between two powerful siblings and their progeny. The difference is that Mahabharata always kept the bigger picture in the story and Raajneeti fell short of that trying to derive from it whereas politics is much more dynamic now than it is shown. At time it was looking like these two families represent India as a whole. I noticed many flaws and don't want to discuss it here as it is BD forum. However, it was a decent watch and was something different. Some other highlights and lowlights are + Points Amazing background score Nice songs but you may need to listen to them quite a few times to appreciate the songs. Wayne Sharpe has done a wonderful job. Excellent cinematography - really liked it Although limityed but special effects were great. No scenes with cars doing mid air gymnastics (typical Indian movies do that most often). The car bomb scenes were really well done . Good acting from most of the cast - Ranbir and Nana patekar was really good. It was great to Nana Patekar not doing the crazy fellow act and he blended into the character really well. Ranbir is improving in every film. - Points Katrina still can't act. She got a very different role this time and she tried but she was looking very out of place compared to others (not by looks but acting). Ajay Devgan in his usual form and no improvisation. It appears that he can be lifted out from one movie to another movie with th esame stone face he uses for his serious movies. Once I liked Ajay but he is becoming monotonous day by day. He needs to bring variation. Manoj Bajpai was good but he could have been much better. I expected more from him. Blu-Ray Review After seeing some screenshots, a lot of arguement here and clarification from Chandna, I was really loking forward to actually seeing the BD myself. This is my observation. Picture Quality + Points Filmic picture quality Nice warm color temp as intended by the director and it looks great. Prakash should have used such color temp in Apaharan as well. Black levels in 80-90% scenes were perfect Saturation is quite vibrant in most scenes. Detail is good but at times it was lost due to picture softness and apparent DNR (more on that later) Nice and clean image - Points DNR or Source issue? – Many scenes appear semi waxy and soft and I am not sure if the source was like that. I must say that it looks much better than the screenshots. I know for sure that Chandna and his team did not apply any DNR during authoring. It could be the source. I also recall that Sanjay mentioned something bad about the source. Some scenes looked absolutely sharp and detailed but many scenes appeared soft and waxy. The same range closeups at times were spot on and you can see the facial texture clearly but in another scene it appeared flat with the same character. Would like to hear Chandna's thought on this.I must say that this issue did not bother me as much while watching the film. The thing that bothered me most is false contouring in many scenes. It is not of a high degree but I couldn't help myself but notice it. If you look closely, you could see false contour around the outline of shoulder, arms,faces etc. This was very distracting for me. This normally comes from Edge enhancement, color banding or lens defect. I also know that Chandna didn't apply any EE as they don't have the feature in the software they use. My question is is that a lens issue or source issue? Some daylight scenes look bit bright with slightly raised black level. I think DEI recreates the source faithfully without any processing so this must have remained the same as with the source. Some scenes have less color saturation compared to the rest of the movie. Not many but a few. I do not have a PC based BD player otherwise I could have posted some screenshots with the issues I mentioned. Audio Quality The DTS MA track is a treat for the ears. This is one of the finest Audio tracks from a Bollywood BD. Dialogues were spot on and directional. The use of LFE is fabulous and it is not overpowering. It creates a wonderful base for the soundstage and you get the feeling of being in a sound capsule where each and every sound is distinctly heard. The track is loud like most bollywood movies but restrained to a good balance. Rears are used throughout the film and it creates an immersive environment. The LFE is fantastic. My only gripe is that rears are slightly louder than they should be. At times it takes over the fronts (since they are close to your ears) which I felt was not right. It is a small gripe but I really enjoyed the Audio on the BD. Excellent. Great job from Chandna and his team. Conclusion: To me, the PQ is very good but not reference level. The two issues I mentioned takes away few points from what what could have a been a reference level BD in PQ terms. I have seen mixed views from people who have seen the BD. As for the Audio, it is nealry flawless apart from a minor niggle on slightly louder rears. If you have a proper 5.1 AV setup, this is going to be your one of you reference BD for AQ. Peace Ani My Rating Movie: 3.75 Video: 3.75 Audio: 4.5 [B] Overall Quality Score: 3.75 Review done with Display : Infocus IN82 Full HD DC3 DLP Projector Screen: 90” BD Player: Sony S350 Av Amp: Denon AVR 1911 7.1 AV Receiver Speakers: Q Acoustics 1010i 5.1 Surround

09-21-2010, 03:50 PM	#6
kailashu Expert Member Member since:Dec 2008 Location:Planet Vega Home Theater Gallery:26 Blu-ray collection:1179 Digital collection:59 Blu-ray reviews:45	@ani - I beg to differ on the PQ rating. I would barely give the PQ a rating of 3, 2.5 may be. The false contouring and waxy issue makes the BD look like an upscaled HD. The depth and detail was lost because of the excessive DNR applied to the source. Last edited by kailashu; 09-21-2010 at 03:56 PM.

09-21-2010, 11:58 AM	#2
Ferhan Member Member since:Mar 2010	What source is the HD? DPX, HDcamSR or D5?

09-21-2010, 05:58 PM	#10
zoran Senior Member Member since:Feb 2010	Great Review! I bookmarked it

09-22-2010, 11:16 AM	#12
anibap Special Member Member since:Jan 2009 Location:London, UK Home Theater Gallery:30 Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:1	I just had a look at the BD yesterday night and I must say I have been a bit lenient with my rating on PQ but it was based on my understanding that the source was not very good to start with. I am quite sensitive and ruthless to PQ issues and I would still say the so called DNRed look didn't bother me as much as the other issue of banding and false contouring and ringing effect. If you watch the whole movie you will understand what I am saying. Since I do not have a PC BD drive to capture scenes, I am using one of Bollywoodbluray's screenshot to illustrate the effect. The following 100% cropped portions demonstrate the issue. The issue might appear slightly amplified in the SS due to wrong capture method but there is no denying that the effect is there. If you notice the edges of the characters, you can notice how distracting it can look like. This problem is often seen with DVDs (Bolly and Holly ones) due to edge enhancement applied and limitations on color bit depth but with BD this is not acceptable (Although many Bolly and Holly BDs suffer from this issue and at least the Holly forums has been very vocal about that and they managed to get a few remastered versions. Gladiator is the best example of all). This problem is quite prominent in the Raajneeti BD. Since we all know that the issue was not introduced during authoring, I am quite intrigued to know how it got introduced in the source. One possibilty is when the posprocessing of film was done but I must say it is quite unusual.

Best Blu-ray Movie Deals