3d+move = very viable vr simulator!

[joeorc]

I think this pretty much what is overlooked DR. Marks is right:

He went on to say that with Move, they wanted to insure they "had a wide enough range of experiences that it worked as a platform device." In this way, "no matter who you are, you'll really want this controller, even if you've never played a game or you've been playing the hardest core games of all." And to finish things off, Marks provided the following comments:

"I think Move is good for adding a spatial dimension to existing experiences. The thing people don’t quite realise yet is that it is a completely new way to interact. It is a 3D virtual reality kind of device, where if there’s a 3D scene you can reach directly into the screen, manipulate things and navigate around the space in a new way. That’s the part that I think hasn’t quite dawned on everyone yet. We don’t yet have enough experiences showing it, but we’re starting to get those."

http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/7815.html



an you always seem to hear the Move is just a Wiimote copy by many in the industry media and forums.
yea that is exactly what the Wii can do..riiight..lol

No wonder Sony's push for 3D...if people think the 3DS from Nintendo is going to be a blast which i think it will..wait till they get a load of this developed platform in the near future.

nay sayer's i think may be eating quite a bit of crow.

[Higgs1]

I picked up the Move yesterday and tried playing some Tumble, which supports both Move & 3D and boy is that game crazy in 3D its like you are physically moving your hands inside of the television and moving things around, its a really really cool sensation. I can not wait to get my hands on Killzone 3 for some good FPS 3D.

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by joeorc

an you always seem to hear the Move is just a Wiimote copy by many in the industry media and forums.
yea that is exactly what the Wii can do..riiight..lol

Well, to be fair, Move is the essentially the same motion control concept as the Wiimote but with better, more accurate technology behind it. So in that respect, such comments aren't entirely wrong.

The ability to integrate Move with the other tech that the PS3 offers, such as 3D, is a big advantage for Sony, in my opinion. Although I'm still probably years away from giving 3D a chance in my living room, I think there's definitely exciting potential there. The fact that the PS3 platform has grown from where it started to a 3D-capable, motion-control gaming system is a testament to the amazing technology in Sony's box. For all intents and purposes, it has become a brand new gaming system from the one that was originally released.

[Makaveli2612]

Originally Posted by Higgs1

I can not wait to get my hands on Killzone 3 for some good FPS 3D.

Killzone 3 is in 3D? You sure?

[UK_fan_05]

Originally Posted by Makaveli2612

Killzone 3 is in 3D? You sure?

Where have you been? This has been known for quite some time.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by kefrank

Well, to be fair, Move is the essentially the same motion control concept as the Wiimote but with better, more accurate technology behind it. So in that respect, such comments aren't entirely wrong.

The ability to integrate Move with the other tech that the PS3 offers, such as 3D, is a big advantage for Sony, in my opinion. Although I'm still probably years away from giving 3D a chance in my living room, I think there's definitely exciting potential there. The fact that the PS3 platform has grown from where it started to a 3D-capable, motion-control gaming system is a testament to the amazing technology in Sony's box. For all intents and purposes, it has become a brand new gaming system from the one that was originally released.

yes they are wrong In my opinion, for one the Move concept just like the Wiimotes concept was started around the same time back in 2001. Nintendo just released their's first, that still does not mean that Sony copied the Wiimote, I mean one is designed like a TV remove which is the Wiimote. while the other is designed like a Wand which is the Move. you could say that The Wiimote is also a Wand, but how else do you make a electronic Wand in it's design?

now like i said it's not a copy for 2 main reason's

two very important key technology's that the Wiimote does not have that are in the Move.

this is not just how both interact but how each system motion control's are designed for that interaction between the gamer and the software on this technology.

if anything Sony's system has more in common with the guy's motion controls from MiT.

example:


Motus CEO talks Darwin motion-control

* By James_Yu, GameSpot
* Posted Aug 25, 2008 1:01 pm PT


GS: We already know about accelerometers and gyroscopes, but what's a magnetometer?

SM: A magnetometer decides on its orientation and tells you its position relative to the Earth's magnetic field.

GS: How sensitive is it? Can it sense the movement of an inch?

SM: Sure. Yeah, it's very precise.

GS: How's the latency for the Darwin? On the Wii, there's a small but noticeable delay between moving the Wii Remote and seeing the onscreen response.

SM: Gamers that have been playing with [the Darwin] have had no visible latency. We have minimal latency because we come from a very different space where we were originally a sports product and technology company. In that space, where you're doing real-time athletic measurements, you really can't have any latency.

If you look at Motus' company, we were born out of this very high-end, scientific tool, and we brought it down the slope to gaming where the application isn't as, I don't want to say brutal, but I'm probably going to find out that it is, but just not as tough. At the high end you're taking tour athletes in golf and other sports and you really have to worry about their minute concerns, and it's a little less so in games, let's just say that.

GS: Would you say that the Darwin hardware would be less powerful or precise than your golf peripheral?

SM: No, believe it or not, it's the exact same stuff--it's very similar to what we've done in our golf technology applications. We've added buttons and created a new set of software, but it's based on similar technology.



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Motus CEO talks Darwin motion-control

* By James_Yu, GameSpot
* Posted Aug 25, 2008 1:01 pm PT

The success of the Wii has brought a lot of attention to motion-based game controls. Sony and Microsoft are undoubtedly working on their own motion-control systems right at this moment, but Motus, a company started by a team of MIT grads out in Cambridge, Massachusetts, has already demonstrated a...

Motus Darwin, white

The success of the Wii has brought a lot of attention to motion-based game controls. Sony and Microsoft are undoubtedly working on their own motion-control systems right at this moment, but Motus, a company started by a team of MIT grads out in Cambridge, Massachusetts, has already demonstrated a new controller that has the potential to bring motion control to any gaming platform.

The engineers at Motus were able to develop its Darwin controller relatively quickly because they spent years learning about motion-sensing technology while developing their first product, the iClub, a hardware and software package designed for golf instruction. The Darwin controller shares the familiar wandlike shape of the vanilla Wii Remote, but has more internal sensors that promise superior performance.

We had a chance to speak with Motus CEO Satayan Mahajan to find out more about the Darwin controller and the company's plans to bring it to market.

GameSpot: What exactly is the Darwin?

Satayan Mahajan: The Darwin controller is basically a motion-based controller that is competitive to the Wii, designed for the platforms other than the Wii--Xbox, PlayStation, and PC.

Motus Darwin, white, detached

GS: What kind of hardware does the controller feature? Accelerometers, gyroscopes?

SM: It's both accelerometers and gyroscopes, and magnetometers. All three of those combined in very clever ways give us what we believe are better capabilities than the Wiimote.

GS: Nintendo recently announced the Wii MotionPlus accessory, which reportedly has three internal gyroscopes. Will the new add-on bring the Wii Remote closer to the Darwin?

SM: I think it should be a lot closer to the Darwin. It's still missing the magnetometers, so it's still a system that needs that IR strip to figure out where it is, whereas the Darwin is completely self-contained. If I'm not mistaken, there were a number of postings and blogs, and we've been hearing through our friends and family, so to speak, that the Wii MotionPlus was a response to the Darwin.

When a few people told us that, we thought, "How realistic is that? Here we are, this little company with 15 to 20 guys in Cambridge, Massachusetts." Oddly enough, blogs and little postings started popping up everywhere, and we thought, "Well, maybe there's some truth to it." Though it doesn't really affect us.

GS: We already know about accelerometers and gyroscopes, but what's a magnetometer?

SM: A magnetometer decides on its orientation and tells you its position relative to the Earth's magnetic field.

GS: How sensitive is it? Can it sense the movement of an inch?

SM: Sure. Yeah, it's very precise.

GS: How's the latency for the Darwin? On the Wii, there's a small but noticeable delay between moving the Wii Remote and seeing the onscreen response.

SM: Gamers that have been playing with [the Darwin] have had no visible latency. We have minimal latency because we come from a very different space where we were originally a sports product and technology company. In that space, where you're doing real-time athletic measurements, you really can't have any latency.

If you look at Motus' company, we were born out of this very high-end, scientific tool, and we brought it down the slope to gaming where the application isn't as, I don't want to say brutal, but I'm probably going to find out that it is, but just not as tough. At the high end you're taking tour athletes in golf and other sports and you really have to worry about their minute concerns, and it's a little less so in games, let's just say that.

GS: Would you say that the Darwin hardware would be less powerful or precise than your golf peripheral?

SM: No, believe it or not, it's the exact same stuff--it's very similar to what we've done in our golf technology applications. We've added buttons and created a new set of software, but it's based on similar technology.

Motus Darwin, black

GS: You must have a high polling rate on the controller to be able to accurately detect a golf swing.

SM: That's correct, the resolution is exceptionally high. Everything occurs in a second and a half.

GS: Could you bring that over to the consoles?

SM: It would be overkill for consoles, but, yes, you could. I don't know if people would want that granular level of data, but it's available to them if they want it.

GS: But wouldn't it be nice to play a game of, say, Top Spin tennis where the game can actually detect your grip and model your swing perfectly?

SM: I think so. One of the nice things that we like about the Wii is that it's really paved the way for us to do this. We started in this space years ago, back in 2000-2001. We thought of a game controller, of a Star Wars lightsaber, but people didn't believe in it. Wii has done a fantastic job for us. Thirty million Wiis later and they've created a market, and now you're seeing some real response to what we're doing.

GS: One of the biggest challenges for any third-party peripheral manufacturer is generating software support. How do you guys plan on getting games to support the Darwin?

SM: Believe it or not, when we came into this space, it wasn't Satayan and his group of guys saying, "Hey, guys. The Wii has done really well. Let's start making game controllers." It was actually a phone call that we got from a publisher. They needed to convert their successful Wii titles over to other platforms, and they felt that the only way to do that was through motion. Almost a year ago to the day, they came to us and asked, "Can you build this for us?" And so, we will be launching a few titles with them over the next few years.

GS: Will you be announcing this partnership soon?

SM: I hope so. Everyone's chomping at the bit, and I feel really bad when I get these phone calls where I can't say anything. Obviously, everyone asks, "Are you working with Microsoft, are you working with Sony, are you working with this company, are you working with that company?" And I'm like, guys, I can't tell you because if I was working with them I'd be under a nondisclosure agreement. You know, we're just really happy to be in this space, and we're honored that people in the gaming industry would ask us to join and create something that I think everyone is going to be happy about.

GS: Many of the people who have played with the Wii have likely noticed that the controller tracking could stand to be crisper and more accurate. The Wii Remote was a good start, but it seems as though we'll need a more powerful controller to get the motion-control games we want to play.

SM: I'm honored that you feel that way. Everyone we talk to expects us to bash the Wii, and all I can say are good things about them. I think they've done so many wonderful things on so many wonderful levels. There are kids, American kids like myself, that now have a way to not be fat anymore, and that's fantastic. It's fantastic that you can get kids off the couch and get them moving. I think they've done a wonderful job. We're just ready to take it to the next level.

GS: You're not ready to talk about software partnerships yet, but can you talk about availability and pricing?

SM: We think that the target price will be between $79 and $100, and that will range a little based on what it's bundled with, and our launch goal will be this spring--again, it's going to be partner-dependent, where they see their games coming out, that sort of thing, but that's our goal here at Motus.

GS: Thanks, Satayan!

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6234451.html


if they refer to their control system as over kill, than Sony's which also has the playstation Eye for augmented reality for Move what would you call that, I would say one Kick @ss controller.

the concept for motion control's does nor did it belong to Nintendo but many on the forums and media seem to think it did.

Iam not saying Nintendo does not deserve it's praise, but also i am saying at the same time that because one company bring's out their concept first does not mean someone else copied it.

[Gone2HiDef]

Originally Posted by Higgs1

I picked up the Move yesterday and tried playing some Tumble, which supports both Move & 3D and boy is that game crazy in 3D its like you are physically moving your hands inside of the television and moving things around, its a really really cool sensation.

WOW! After reading that, NOW I'm interested in buying a 3D HDTV.

Originally Posted by kefrank

Well, to be fair, Move is the essentially the same motion control concept as the Wiimote but with better, more accurate technology behind it. So in that respect, such comments aren't entirely wrong.

The ability to integrate Move with the other tech that the PS3 offers, such as 3D, is a big advantage for Sony, in my opinion. Although I'm still probably years away from giving 3D a chance in my living room, I think there's definitely exciting potential there. The fact that the PS3 platform has grown from where it started to a 3D-capable, motion-control gaming system is a testament to the amazing technology in Sony's box. For all intents and purposes, it has become a brand new gaming system from the one that was originally released.

Agreed.

[SoCalTiger]

Originally Posted by Makaveli2612

Killzone 3 is in 3D? You sure?

Wow, welcome to 2010.

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by joeorc

yes they are wrong In my opinion, for one the Move concept just like the Wiimotes concept was started around the same time back in 2001. Nintendo just released their's first, that still does not mean that Sony copied the Wiimote, I mean one is designed like a TV remove which is the Wiimote. while the other is designed like a Wand which is the Move. you could say that The Wiimote is also a Wand, but how else do you make a electronic Wand in it's design?

I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that the Move concept was started in 2001. Technology used in Move was being developed as early as 2001, but that was basically conceptual R&D for possible uses of the PS Eye. The commercial concept for Move didn't go into development until 2008.

now like i said it's not a copy for 2 main reason's

two very important key technology's that the Wiimote does not have that are in the Move.

I would not argue that the technology behind Move is both different and better. In fact, I already said as much in my earlier post. That doesn't change the fact that Move borrows plenty from the Wii conceptually, even down to the bundled software.

the concept for motion control's does nor did it belong to Nintendo but many on the forums and media seem to think it did.

Regardless of what was happening in labs years ago, it cannot be denied that Nintendo commercialized motion control and Move is piggy-backing off of that. Do you honestly believe Move would exist if the Wii hadn't come along first?

I am not saying Nintendo does not deserve it's praise, but also i am saying at the same time that because one company bring's out their concept first does not mean someone else copied it.

Let's look at this objectively. The Nintendo Wii was released commercially in 2006 with it's motion control scheme. It turned out to be a wildly successful product that appealed to a new demographic and expanded the video game market. Sony saw the commercial potential for such a product, said "hey, we've got this PS Eye R&D from years ago that we could apply to make a motion controller" and fleshed out their own commercial concept. It's not a "copy" but it's certainly reactionary and obviously borrows from Nintendo's commercial concept. I don't really see how someone could deny that, nor do I understand why anyone would want to. There's no shame in Sony's approach. This is how technology advances. One company puts something out. Another company adapts the concept with their own improved technology. It's been happening in the video game industry and in the CE industry at large forever and I hope it continues.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by kefrank

I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that the Move concept was started in 2001. Technology used in Move was being developed as early as 2001, but that was basically conceptual R&D for possible uses of the PS Eye. The commercial concept for Move didn't go into development until 2008.


I would not argue that the technology behind Move is both different and better. In fact, I already said as much in my earlier post. That doesn't change the fact that Move borrows plenty from the Wii conceptually, even down to the bundled software.


Regardless of what was happening in labs years ago, it cannot be denied that Nintendo commercialized motion control and Move is piggy-backing off of that. Do you honestly believe Move would exist if the Wii hadn't come along first?


Let's look at this objectively. The Nintendo Wii was released commercially in 2006 with it's motion control scheme. It turned out to be a wildly successful product that appealed to a new demographic and expanded the video game market. Sony saw the commercial potential for such a product, said "hey, we've got this PS Eye R&D from years ago that we could apply to make a motion controller" and fleshed out their own commercial concept. It's not a "copy" but it's certainly reactionary and obviously borrows from Nintendo's commercial concept. I don't really see how someone could deny that, nor do I understand why anyone would want to. There's no shame in Sony's approach. This is how technology advances. One company puts something out. Another company adapts the concept with their own improved technology. It's been happening in the video game industry and in the CE industry at large forever and I hope it continues.

concept's are one thing patents are another, you do know that sony patened their motion control wand in early 2005 and had submitted it before than, that would mean even before the Wiimote even came out even bfore Nintendo showed it off, that Sony already had the same idea.

how else do you make a motion controlled wand?

that's the problem many and you are trying to portray that it's like a automobile one d@rn near looks in concept like another but their not the same that's the point.

Saying sony barrowed it's concept from Nintendo is really stretching it due to the fact if anything during 2001.Sony showed how a motion control "Wand"
not a wiimote could be used. just because Nintendo came out first does not mean another company was working on the same thing, and also if you notice the Guy's at MIT had one but without the camera also included for sensor motion control's it would have cost the consumer more.

think about that in 2008 already with Motus's "darwin" being $75.00 to $100.00 an that's without something like the PSEYE included.

"We think that the target price will be between $79 and $100, and that will range a little based on what it's bundled with, and our launch goal will be this spring--again, it's going to be partner-dependent, where they see their games coming out, that sort of thing, but that's our goal here at Motus."

the point being Sony was already working with the motion control "wand " concept as early as 2000.

you saying:

I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that the Move concept was started in 2001. Technology used in Move was being developed as early as 2001, but that was basically conceptual R&D for possible uses of the PS Eye. [I]The commercial concept for Move didn't go into development until 2008.

so what if it's concept, what's changed since 2000, that they no longer have a prototype?

"The commercial concept for Move didn't go into development until 2008"

once again so what if they did, it still does not take away their not going against their origional IDEA. commercial concept?

that is yet another way of trying to claim that Sony's idea is negated by Nintendo releasing first to market!

since when does that mean that Sony did not also have the same idea?
or copied? all it means is one company released first. in more cases than not that is what happens, rarely do one company has the sole idea that other's are not close behind on in releasing theirs.

that is the big point Sony have been working on the same idea since 2000!
the big indicator is the early patent since 2005. that was before the Wiimote was even shown or before the Wiimote was even produced for the public.

thus there is another point the Wiimote is modeled after a TV remote, the Move is modeled after a "Wand" the fact that Sony has always kept it as a wand since it's inception would tend to keep the same idea they started with. for one the LED's would have been insanely expensive. DR. Marks have been working on this concept since he started @ sony.

like i said before people wanting to say somehow that Sony copied Nintendo on this i think is quite a stretch, if anything Nintendo may have seen what DR. Marks demoed back in 2001 Siggraph. an got a great concept for a new motion control system!
see how funny that sound's?

is it so hard for people to not think that more than one company had the same idea but one just get's theirs out first, and that the first one cut corner's to do so!

[yagami]

Originally Posted by Makaveli2612

Killzone 3 is in 3D? You sure?

Originally Posted by eagle_fan_05

Where have you been? This has been known for quite some time.

That's the same thing I thought when I read this. It's like 3D gamings biggest killer app for the PS3 next year.

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by joeorc

concept's are one thing patents are another, you do know that sony patened their motion control wand in early 2005 and had submitted it before than, that would mean even before the Wiimote even came out even bfore Nintendo showed it off, that Sony already had the same idea.

how else do you make a motion controlled wand?

that's the problem many and you are trying to portray that it's like a automobile one d@rn near looks in concept like another but their not the same that's the point.

Saying sony barrowed it's concept from Nintendo is really stretching it due to the fact if anything during 2001.Sony showed how a motion control "Wand"
not a wiimote could be used. just because Nintendo came out first does not mean another company was working on the same thing, and also if you notice the Guy's at MIT had one but without the camera also included for sensor motion control's it would have cost the consumer more.

think about that in 2008 already with Motus's "darwin" being $75.00 to $100.00 an that's without something like the PSEYE included.

"We think that the target price will be between $79 and $100, and that will range a little based on what it's bundled with, and our launch goal will be this spring--again, it's going to be partner-dependent, where they see their games coming out, that sort of thing, but that's our goal here at Motus."

the point being Sony was already working with the motion control "wand " concept as early as 2000.

you saying:

I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that the Move concept was started in 2001. Technology used in Move was being developed as early as 2001, but that was basically conceptual R&D for possible uses of the PS Eye. [I]The commercial concept for Move didn't go into development until 2008.

so what if it's concept, what's changed since 2000, that they no longer have a prototype?

"The commercial concept for Move didn't go into development until 2008"

once again so what if they did, it still does not take away their not going against their origional IDEA. commercial concept?

that is yet another way of trying to claim that Sony's idea is negated by Nintendo releasing first to market!

since when does that mean that Sony did not also have the same idea?
or copied? all it means is one company released first. in more cases than not that is what happens, rarely do one company has the sole idea that other's are not close behind on in releasing theirs.

that is the big point Sony have been working on the same idea since 2000!
the big indicator is the early patent since 2005. that was before the Wiimote was even shown or before the Wiimote was even produced for the public.

thus there is another point the Wiimote is modeled after a TV remote, the Move is modeled after a "Wand" the fact that Sony has always kept it as a wand since it's inception would tend to keep the same idea they started with. for one the LED's would have been insanely expensive. DR. Marks have been working on this concept since he started @ sony.

like i said before people wanting to say somehow that Sony copied Nintendo on this i think is quite a stretch, if anything Nintendo may have seen what DR. Marks demoed back in 2001 Siggraph. an got a great concept for a new motion control system!
see how funny that sound's?

is it so hard for people to not think that more than one company had the same idea but one just get's theirs out first, and that the first one cut corner's to do so!

You're still missing my point and I'm beginning to think you are willfully ignoring it, so this will be my last word on the subject: It is one thing to have some patented technology sitting on a shelf in a lab. It's another thing entirely to fully implement motion control technology and release compatible software for it. You're nitpicking about patent dates and wand vs. remote details that are really not relevant to my point. If you can't look at the Wand + Nav controller pair and a bundled sports game and see that Sony borrowed conceptually from Nintendo's commercial implementation of motion control, then you're irrationally blinded by fanboy-ism. I don't understand this strange pride attached to which company played around with motion control ideas back in their labs first. Sony's technology is clearly better and has been around at least since before the Wii was released - no one is denying that. But Nintendo showed what you could do with motion control, how you could do it, and how successful it can be. Sony is unquestionably borrowing some of those elements, better technology notwithstanding, and I will never understand the strong need some apparently have to deny that.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by kefrank

You're still missing my point and I'm beginning to think you are willfully ignoring it, so this will be my last word on the subject: It is one thing to have some patented technology sitting on a shelf in a lab. It's another thing entirely to fully implement motion control technology and release compatible software for it. You're nitpicking about patent dates and wand vs. remote details that are really not relevant to my point. If you can't look at the Wand + Nav controller pair and a bundled sports game and see that Sony borrowed conceptually from Nintendo's commercial implementation of motion control, then you're irrationally blinded by fanboy-ism. I don't understand this strange pride attached to which company played around with motion control ideas back in their labs first. Sony's technology is clearly better and has been around at least since before the Wii was released - no one is denying that. But Nintendo showed what you could do with motion control, how you could do it, and how successful it can be. Sony is unquestionably borrowing some of those elements, better technology notwithstanding, and I will never understand the strong need some apparently have to deny that.

you just stated this:

" You're nitpicking about patent dates and wand vs. remote details that are really not relevant to my point."

you stated that people saying Sony copied the Wii is rightful to say that in their OPINION.

yes they can have an OPINION on it am my Opinion is Sony is not copying the Wiimote.

im not ignoring it, what i am pointing out borrow or what your trying to point out is how the nav controller and move borrowed from the Nintendo's wii, which in my opinion is not true at all for the simple fact the same software is a core function that if you take the idea, that just like you said Sony had their IDEA out before the Wii would that make it the idea that Sony already had in the work's?

So if bringing out their motion control first means that every one else copy's or borrows from their idea in the area of marketing the product, than yea i have no problem in your opinion on the matter an can see that if some one releases a product that you yourself had the same idea on how to market is one thing , but for copying the product no. for one even taking into your account of both having a sub controller once again the sub controller of the move is once again a wand

notice a theme here sony's using "wands"

how else do you make a wand?

there is only so many way's to make a electronic wand.

if you notice the Darwin is also a wand:





that's the Darwin would you say that's a copy of the Wiimote?

well it's not but yet has some simularities..the software being the same well once again it's not bowling is bowling right unless there are options or function's over the other which would make the experience not the same, but there are other's that may say one bowling game is the same as the other.

its pretty subjective:

you said this:

" If you can't look at the Wand + Nav controller pair and a bundled sports game and see that Sony borrowed conceptually from Nintendo's commercial implementation of motion control, then you're irrationally blinded by fanboy-ism."

for one sports champions is not wii sport's i have access to a Wii and im not saying Wii sports is not fun but no they are not the same .

archery
bowling
skeet shooting
table tennis
etc.

that's like your not going to make the above software for motion control's?
when you know that another company makes or made them even though they would be most common to think would be idea for motion control's?

look i understand your point with marketing a product i just do not agree that sony copyied the idea on how they created the move or how to market the Move after Nintendo on marketing an their IDEA of the Move.
if Sony did you would'nt have people looking at move launch software by people in the media and on forums as a launch lineup being lackluster..lol
if Sony copied the Nintendo way of motion control's.

while i respect your Opinion i just happen to disagree with it.

[kefrank]

I'm not really sure what you're saying anymore, so I think we have to just agree to disagree. If you look at my original comment, I never said the people saying Move is just a copy of the Wii motion control were "right." I said they "weren't entirely wrong." In other words, it's not just a straight copy, but there are definitely elements of Sony's commercially available motion control system that were clearly borrowed from Nintendo on at least a conceptual level. If you really think that Sony would have released the Move wand and Nav controller along with Sports Champions in 2010, even if the Wii had never existed, then we will forever be at an impasse.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by kefrank

I'm not really sure what you're saying anymore, so I think we have to just agree to disagree. If you look at my original comment, I never said the people saying Move is just a copy of the Wii motion control were "right." I said they "weren't entirely wrong." In other words, it's not just a straight copy, but there are definitely elements of Sony's commercially available motion control system that were clearly borrowed from Nintendo on at least a conceptual level. If you really think that Sony would have released the Move wand and Nav controller along with Sports Champions in 2010, even if the Wii had never existed, then we will forever be at an impasse.

see that's a problem how do you know Sony would'nt if you want to look at it even before the move was released way back in 2000 Sony was already thinking of a motion control wand for the PS2! Move was meant for the PS2 but there were several problems with that, but even DR. Mark's said their motion control wand would have to be for the playstation 3 because of the limit's of the playstation 2 in it's hardware.

the mere fact that even before the Nintendo Wii was made Sony already was working on their motion control wand IDEA both Nintendo had the same IDEA.
you keep bring up :

"Sony's commercially available motion control system that were clearly borrowed from Nintendo on at least a conceptual level."

you keep pointing toward that and yet what is the concept?

your talking about the marketing?

which if you are there is no way to even claim that because their going to be inline software wise for motion control's because of the design of a "wand" and a electronic "remote" in it's very basic design an fabrication are going to be nearly the same. that's like saying one car design copy's off of a another based on 4 wheel designs that many automobiles employ. yes there are 3 wheeled but those are trikes.

a common design and function does not determine a copy in my opinion due to the fact that you are going to always run into that in fabrication , since a standard design of a remote and wand are on the very basic level designed along the same line's.

many are basing that idea that Sony just looked at the Nintendo and copied it's conceptual design, which in my opinion is not the case because you design a "wand" and a remote along the same lines thus, just even looking at both designs you can tell they are not copy's due to the fact that not only what's inside by sensor's but also what's inside the software let alone the way each system employ's it's method of motion control's.

what i see is many see the way sony used the sub controller as their argument as it's a copy. but if you notice it's also a wand also. and just like the Darwin also a sub controller wand. Nintendo employ's a sub controller but it's not a wand so infact Nintendo did not even design the Wiimote in the first place another company did:

"In fact, Gyration developed the first motion sensing Nintendo game controller prototype in 2001 and developed much of the interaction concepts between motion controllers and game play. Our technology and patents have been at the core of several motion-sensing products currently available on the market as Gyration has continue to push the technological advances in motion control over the years."

http://www.gyration.com/index.php/us...s/history.html

if you are talking about software:
once again the commonality of motion controlled software is going to be at it's core the same ideas in designing the software due to the fact the motion of a wand or remote are going to be with the consumer using that wand or remote based as what kind of motion's for games with a wand and a remote would be created.
There is a common motion's every gamer would perform with a wand or remote. you are not going to have that any out of the ordinary between the two, except what function both offer inside the software stack, which already even far back as 2000 sony was ALREADY gearing THEIR'S for augmented reality INCLUDING motion control's. which is something Nintndo has not done for the wii even now since it's release.

so I in my opinion Sony concept of the Move was their own an not from Nintendo.Nintendo took a path their own and Sony took one of their own.

saying one copied the conceptual concept of another is like saying one person creates the chair but another creates a bar stool..both can be seen as a chair, but their not the same.

the core basic's are that 4 legs or in some cases 3 legs but the idea that both offer you to sit your butt on them does not mean one copied the other even in conceptual concept.

[kefrank]

To quote myself:

we will forever be at an impasse.

You are obviously dead set on denying that Sony may have borrowed any conceptual elements at all from Nintendo, which I find utterly baffling.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by kefrank

To quote myself:

You are obviously dead set on denying that Sony may have borrowed any conceptual elements at all from Nintendo, which I find utterly baffling.

while on the same token:

You are obviously dead set on Saying that Sony may have borrowed any conceptual elements at all from Nintendo, which I find utterly baffling when it may not be the case at all.

IT WORKS BOTH WAY'S

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by joeorc

IT WORKS BOTH WAY'S

No need to "yell." Of course it does. That's why it's called a disagreement.

[Uxi]

I'd have to get a 3D TV first, but sounds great.