Why I might be going format neutral soon and might start buying HD DVD movies - Blu-ray Forum

HDTV1080P · 08-31-2007, 06:55 PM

Why I most likely will be going format neutral soon and might start buying HD-DVD movies

I have been a movie collector for many years. I have never collected analog NTSC VHS movies since BETA has a better picture quality. I no longer own BETA anymore. My current collection contains several Laserdiscs, standard DVD’s, 1080I HDTV D-VHS, and BLU-RAY. I have always upgraded my favorite movies to the best version regardless of format.
The reason I am currently 100% behind the BLU-RAY format owning only BLU-RAY discs and no HD-DVD discs is because the BLU-RAY format technically is the best format. When 1080P/24 movies with 7.1 PCM surround sound is mastered on a 50GB disc using high bit MPEG-4/AVC or high bit rate VC-1 the quality is outstanding. BLU-RAY technically has more capacity and supports higher bit rates compared to the HD-DVD format. The old 1080I D-VHS format uses 50GB tapes which is the same capacity of BLU-RAY. It is a shame that the HD-DVD format only has 30GB of storage for movies. Yes both the BLU-RAY and HD-DVD camps plan to offer higher capacity discs but the fact remains that no matter how many layers used the BLU-RAY format will always have more capacity for high bit rate movies. Each layer of BLU-RAY disc contains 25GB compared to each layer of a HD-DVD disc is only 15GB.
This summer I almost upgraded all my DVD players to BLU-RAY players. Since Universal Studios use to be the only exclusive movie studio which was supporting HD-DVD it made perfect sense to go BLU-RAY only and to boycott Universal Studios as long as they remained HD-DVD exclusive. I was very busy this summer and I ended up delaying my plans to upgrade all my DVD players I own with under $500 BLU-RAY players. Now I am very glad I did not upgrade all my DVD players to BLU-RAY players with the recent announcement of Paramount Pictures joining Universal Studios and going HD-DVD exclusive.
There is no way I am going to purchase both a HD-DVD and BLU-RAY player for every room in the house I have a TV set. Also 90% of the mainstream consumers are not going to upgrade all their DVD players with two separate HDTV players. The most logical solution in this format war is for consumers to upgrade all their standard DVD players to a working combo player. The studios make the finally decision on which HDTV format they want to support. If I could wave a magic wand yes I wish the HD-DVD format would die, but at the same time most people are not going to boycott Universal Studios and Paramount Pictures for two years. The HD-DVD format does not have as good of picture quality as BLU-RAY since it does not support super high bit rates up to 48MB per second for both audio and video. The HD-DVD format can still display some amazing HDTV quality even though it is second best when compared to BLU-RAY high bit movies.
I am strongly considering purchasing the Samsung BD-UP5000 which is suppose to be the worlds first true working Universal combo player that plays both BLU-RAY and HD-DVD discs. Yes the BD-UP5000 is going to cost around $400 more just for the added feature to play HD-DVD discs at 1080P/24 compared to Samsung’s BD-P2400 which is a BLU-RAY only player. The BD-UP5000 will be Samsung’s top of the line flagship product and I might wait for a professional review before purchasing it. So coming this November consumers will have a choice to purchase either a BLU-RAY, HD-DVD, or Universal dual format player. Since the Samsung BD-UP5000 is going to list for $999.99 (prior list price $1049) this is a good deal. Denon will be releasing a BLU-RAY only player for $2,000 list price and the Pioneer BLU-RAY player lists for $999.99. So for $1,000 cheaper then the Denon one can own a dual format Samsung player. Of course the Denon player in theory will be better quality compared to the Samsung.
In the 4th quarter of 2008 (perhaps sooner) we should start to see a flood of Universal dual format combo players on the market for under $500 that play both BLU-RAY and HD-DVD discs. One of these days I might be tempted to upgrade all my DVD players to working dual format players since the BLU-RAY camp does not have 100% studio support.

This possible will be the next HDTV player I will own in November.
http://www.abtelectronics.com/images/products/PDF_Files/BD-UP5000_specs.pdf

jubaiweaponx · 08-31-2007, 07:23 PM

I understand your decision ,paramount was a big blow to me as well as alot of other blu-supporters ,I`m still going to see what kind of pressure the holidays puts on those "other studios". I do support blu -only but i have learned never to rush into anything so i`m in a holding pattern right now ,but i`m sure there are many others who feel the same way you do HD.
I have to say I love HD movies but i`m not gonna cave to a lesser format
because i`m impatient.....

pro-bassoonist · 08-31-2007, 07:31 PM

Since you have been a movie collector for many years then you more than perfectly understand that a niche market will not tolerate a broad library of product. Documentaries, foreign cinema, classics, will be unlikely to appear on multiple formats, let alone in mass numbers.

Becoming neutral is a vote of support for the current status quo: a squashed market of blockbusters and semi-blockbuster productions.

An informed and educated film lover, such as yourself, certainly understands whats at stake here. The opposite simply puts you in the "DVDCollector" category, a person who collects plastic discs, not a film-collector: a person who collects films on the best format currently available.

Sincerely,

Dr.A

GasCat · 08-31-2007, 07:39 PM

That's a nice slick ad for the player. I love new electronics. Do whatever you want to do. It sounds like you are fairly torn and using the post as a way to get your thoughts out. Much of it was saying how superior Blu is to HD-DVD.

Their marketing campaign is obviously working. I am not going to be manipulated by them. Consider a rental service or borrowing them from friends, viewing them on a HD service such as Uni-HD.

I truly believe that any HD-DVD purchases are going to be worthless. The only question is when that will happen. You sound like you have the means to support your movie habit. You will be going to a company who has proved through their actions that they do not care about you as a customer.

I have been a movie junky for my entire life. There are so many hours of entertainment I could easily see again with Cagney, Stewart, Hepburn, Edward G. Robinson, etc. The bad part is I know the plots of almost every new movie. Still, that makes my decision not to purchase HD-DVD even easier.

I'm keeping my legs crossed and not bending over with my tail in the air. I don't need HD-DVD or Blu-Ray for that matter. Maybe what you need to do is reflect on your thoughts.

shug7272 · 08-31-2007, 07:40 PM

I say go for it man. I will not support it unless Blu Ray dies just out of principal. If they can take over the market fine Ill buy, if they cant then you are just helping prolong the ridiculous war.

jtconnolly · 08-31-2007, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shug7272

I say go for it man. I will not support it unless Blu Ray dies just out of principal. If they can take over the market fine Ill buy, if they cant then you are just helping prolong the ridiculous war.

Thats right, you are helping prolong this war!

BluBerry · 08-31-2007, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The most logical solution in this format war is for consumers to upgrade all their standard DVD players to a working combo player.

This is the most rediculous statement I've seen on these boards. You could not be more wrong about this. How many more times does this have to be said? The home video market is not like the video game market. Consumers don't want combo players. They want one format to take home, knowing it will work on their player. That's why you are seeing places like Blockbuster begin to stock only Blu-Ray discs. Combo players at any price are not the answer.

patrick99 · 08-31-2007, 07:45 PM

I too think that Blu-ray is clearly the technically superior format. For that reason, although I own an HD DVD player and formerly bought HD DVDs, I now refuse to do anything that helps the HD DVD format. I neither buy new HD DVDs nor even watch the ones I already own.

Teazle · 08-31-2007, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Why I most likely will be going format neutral soon and might start buying HD-DVD movies

In the 4th quarter of 2008 (perhaps sooner) we should start to see a flood of Universal dual format combo players on the market for under $500 that play both BLU-RAY and HD-DVD discs. One of these days I might be tempted to upgrade all my DVD players to working dual format players since the BLU-RAY camp does not have 100% studio support.

This possible will be the next HDTV player I will own in November.
http://www.abtelectronics.com/images/products/PDF_Files/BD-UP5000_specs.pdf

Just a polite suggestion ... Since the expected flood of players will come in Q4 08, why not simply postpone your decision til then? What's the hurry to buy an HD-DVD-capable player this November?

Addendum: By that time the market may have changed ...

DrinkMore · 08-31-2007, 07:49 PM

Supporting both formats is like..

Putting 22" rims on one side of your car and 16" rims on the otherside.

How cool is that? NOT

jtconnolly · 08-31-2007, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkMore

Supporting both formats is like..

Putting 22" rims on one side of your car and 16" rims on the otherside.

How cool is that? NOT

LOL! Good Analogy

movies3 · 08-31-2007, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkMore

Supporting both formats is like..

Putting 22" rims on one side of your car and 16" rims on the otherside.

How cool is that? NOT

lol!

blujacket · 08-31-2007, 07:53 PM

You're exactly the person Micro$oft is banking on prolonging this war. Don't give in. HDdvd will die as long as we keep supporting Blu-ray. I can't see Universal staying exclusive that much longer either. Just say no to HDdvd.

BigB88 · 08-31-2007, 07:55 PM

Going neutral simply prolongs the nonsense. BluRay is superior technology, BluRay still has significant support with movie distributors as well as Computer manufacturers and CE manfacturers. Blu Ray is dominating everywhere else in the world, including North America (2:1). So your going out and "wasting" money just so you can see a couple of movies offered on one format vs. another? This lacks all sense of logical thinking. This is still a niche market, it needs time to grow, but it can only grow with ONE format. If you like HD-DVD and have a player then go with it. If you like BluRay and have a player then go with that, but to go with both simply defeats the HDM medium, gives Microsoft a clear victory (one way or another - codec licesning or HD download) and keeps the consumers confused. It's a TIE!! Like kissing your sister!!! No one like ties, they like winners.

Branden · 08-31-2007, 07:56 PM

i totally understand where you're coming from, i was considering a combo player a little while back to just for the sake of being able to play the few titles only available on HD-DVD that i wanted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

the BD-UP5000 is going to cost around $400 more just for the added feature to play HD-DVD discs

but then i thought of it this way: i have to justify the added cost of having a combo player onto any HD-DVD titles i may purchase. for example: lets assume an average price is $30 per HD-DVD and $400 extra for the combo player. if i were to get the 5 titles i wanted it would cost me a total of $550 just to watch those 5 movies, or another way to look at it is it would cost me $110 per movie. i just couldn't justify that. if i were to eventually convince myself to buy even 20 HD-DVD exclusive titles over the next few months it would still cost me $1000, or $50 per movie.

i've placed my bets that i'll have dozens or even hundreds of BD movies, making the BD player expense more and more negligable. i can wait a few months or even a couple years (buddha forbit it) to pay $30 per universal/paramount title instead of having it cost me $110 per movie now. i'm not anti-HD-DVD, i just can't justify buying a player for a dying format for a handfull of titles that will make their way to BD eventually anyway.

but if there's seriously enough titles from universal/parasuck that you want that you can justify it, or if you've just plain got more money than patience, go for it.

buckshot · 08-31-2007, 07:56 PM

traitor. I take back what I said in the blu ray pledge of allegiance thread. we should shoot traitors. but I doubt we will.

Proteus · 08-31-2007, 07:57 PM

Respectfully, I have to point out that you are seriously mistake in your hypothesis.

There will never be a 'flood of dual format players'. It will not happen.

All major manufacturers of equipment are commited to Blu-ray with the only exception being Toshiba.

HDDVD has one manufacturer, Toshiba and some unheard of chinese company that they were able to get 'onboard'. Did you not read all of the IFA announcements on new products? There was not one single new HDDVD player announced besides offerings from Toshiba. In fact, this mysterious chinese company hasn't even announced a product yet.

Believe what you like, but I can assure you that every movie from Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks Animation that you could ever want to own will be 100% available on Blu-ray within the next two years. Bookmark this thread and in exactly two years come back and tell me I was wrong.

Blu-ray's ability to offer a RECORDABLE solution to consumers combined with overwhelming manufacturer side support will win the 'war'. Studios are just working the money grabs right now because not a whole lot is at stake. If you want a _true_ indicator of which format will win... look at who all the new factories, manufacturing centers and hardware are being produced for. Only Blu-ray.

Please search recent threads on this forum that contain links to the real reason why this 'war' is still even in existence. It's Microsoft... and only Microsoft. Even Toshiba wanted to abandon HDDVD in 2005 but Microsoft, completely frustrated by every single manufacturer and DVDForum refusing to make it's VC-1 (aka Windows Media 9 garbage) codec standard, forced Toshiba to continue with HDDVD production.

Once people know the _truth_ then the choice is simple.

Blu-Light · 08-31-2007, 08:06 PM

I kinda expected a post like this from you at some point. Your other posts were obvious to what you have been thinking. If you are smart and care about the future of an optical HD format than don't contribute to this nonsense. Paramont and Universal will be blue again soon enough.

DrinkMore · 08-31-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blu-Light

I kinda expected a post like this from you at some point. Your other posts were obvious to what you have been thinking. If you are smart and care about the future of an optical HD format than don't contribute to this nonsense. Paramont and Universal will be blue again soon enough.

Finally, someone posts it

johnnyd1 · 08-31-2007, 08:11 PM

Don't waste your money or my time by supporting this failed hddvd format !

08-31-2007, 06:55 PM	#1
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Why I might be going format neutral soon and might start buying HD DVD movies Why I most likely will be going format neutral soon and might start buying HD-DVD movies I have been a movie collector for many years. I have never collected analog NTSC VHS movies since BETA has a better picture quality. I no longer own BETA anymore. My current collection contains several Laserdiscs, standard DVD’s, 1080I HDTV D-VHS, and BLU-RAY. I have always upgraded my favorite movies to the best version regardless of format. The reason I am currently 100% behind the BLU-RAY format owning only BLU-RAY discs and no HD-DVD discs is because the BLU-RAY format technically is the best format. When 1080P/24 movies with 7.1 PCM surround sound is mastered on a 50GB disc using high bit MPEG-4/AVC or high bit rate VC-1 the quality is outstanding. BLU-RAY technically has more capacity and supports higher bit rates compared to the HD-DVD format. The old 1080I D-VHS format uses 50GB tapes which is the same capacity of BLU-RAY. It is a shame that the HD-DVD format only has 30GB of storage for movies. Yes both the BLU-RAY and HD-DVD camps plan to offer higher capacity discs but the fact remains that no matter how many layers used the BLU-RAY format will always have more capacity for high bit rate movies. Each layer of BLU-RAY disc contains 25GB compared to each layer of a HD-DVD disc is only 15GB. This summer I almost upgraded all my DVD players to BLU-RAY players. Since Universal Studios use to be the only exclusive movie studio which was supporting HD-DVD it made perfect sense to go BLU-RAY only and to boycott Universal Studios as long as they remained HD-DVD exclusive. I was very busy this summer and I ended up delaying my plans to upgrade all my DVD players I own with under $500 BLU-RAY players. Now I am very glad I did not upgrade all my DVD players to BLU-RAY players with the recent announcement of Paramount Pictures joining Universal Studios and going HD-DVD exclusive. There is no way I am going to purchase both a HD-DVD and BLU-RAY player for every room in the house I have a TV set. Also 90% of the mainstream consumers are not going to upgrade all their DVD players with two separate HDTV players. The most logical solution in this format war is for consumers to upgrade all their standard DVD players to a working combo player. The studios make the finally decision on which HDTV format they want to support. If I could wave a magic wand yes I wish the HD-DVD format would die, but at the same time most people are not going to boycott Universal Studios and Paramount Pictures for two years. The HD-DVD format does not have as good of picture quality as BLU-RAY since it does not support super high bit rates up to 48MB per second for both audio and video. The HD-DVD format can still display some amazing HDTV quality even though it is second best when compared to BLU-RAY high bit movies. I am strongly considering purchasing the Samsung BD-UP5000 which is suppose to be the worlds first true working Universal combo player that plays both BLU-RAY and HD-DVD discs. Yes the BD-UP5000 is going to cost around $400 more just for the added feature to play HD-DVD discs at 1080P/24 compared to Samsung’s BD-P2400 which is a BLU-RAY only player. The BD-UP5000 will be Samsung’s top of the line flagship product and I might wait for a professional review before purchasing it. So coming this November consumers will have a choice to purchase either a BLU-RAY, HD-DVD, or Universal dual format player. Since the Samsung BD-UP5000 is going to list for $999.99 (prior list price $1049) this is a good deal. Denon will be releasing a BLU-RAY only player for $2,000 list price and the Pioneer BLU-RAY player lists for $999.99. So for $1,000 cheaper then the Denon one can own a dual format Samsung player. Of course the Denon player in theory will be better quality compared to the Samsung. In the 4th quarter of 2008 (perhaps sooner) we should start to see a flood of Universal dual format combo players on the market for under $500 that play both BLU-RAY and HD-DVD discs. One of these days I might be tempted to upgrade all my DVD players to working dual format players since the BLU-RAY camp does not have 100% studio support. This possible will be the next HDTV player I will own in November. http://www.abtelectronics.com/images/products/PDF_Files/BD-UP5000_specs.pdf

08-31-2007, 07:23 PM	#2
jubaiweaponx Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:collingdale,pa Blu-ray collection:304	indeed I understand your decision ,paramount was a big blow to me as well as alot of other blu-supporters ,I`m still going to see what kind of pressure the holidays puts on those "other studios". I do support blu -only but i have learned never to rush into anything so i`m in a holding pattern right now ,but i`m sure there are many others who feel the same way you do HD. I have to say I love HD movies but i`m not gonna cave to a lesser format because i`m impatient.....

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08-31-2007, 07:31 PM	#3
pro-bassoonist Blu-ray reviewer Top contributor Member since:Jul 2007 Location:X Home Theater Gallery:47 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:- Blu-ray reviews: 31 Trading Score:23	Since you have been a movie collector for many years then you more than perfectly understand that a niche market will not tolerate a broad library of product. Documentaries, foreign cinema, classics, will be unlikely to appear on multiple formats, let alone in mass numbers. Becoming neutral is a vote of support for the current status quo: a squashed market of blockbusters and semi-blockbuster productions. An informed and educated film lover, such as yourself, certainly understands whats at stake here. The opposite simply puts you in the "DVDCollector" category, a person who collects plastic discs, not a film-collector: a person who collects films on the best format currently available. Sincerely, Dr.A

08-31-2007, 07:39 PM	#4
GasCat Special Member Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews:1	That's a nice slick ad for the player. I love new electronics. Do whatever you want to do. It sounds like you are fairly torn and using the post as a way to get your thoughts out. Much of it was saying how superior Blu is to HD-DVD. Their marketing campaign is obviously working. I am not going to be manipulated by them. Consider a rental service or borrowing them from friends, viewing them on a HD service such as Uni-HD. I truly believe that any HD-DVD purchases are going to be worthless. The only question is when that will happen. You sound like you have the means to support your movie habit. You will be going to a company who has proved through their actions that they do not care about you as a customer. I have been a movie junky for my entire life. There are so many hours of entertainment I could easily see again with Cagney, Stewart, Hepburn, Edward G. Robinson, etc. The bad part is I know the plots of almost every new movie. Still, that makes my decision not to purchase HD-DVD even easier. I'm keeping my legs crossed and not bending over with my tail in the air. I don't need HD-DVD or Blu-Ray for that matter. Maybe what you need to do is reflect on your thoughts.

08-31-2007, 07:40 PM	#5
shug7272 Active Member Member since:Jan 2007	I say go for it man. I will not support it unless Blu Ray dies just out of principal. If they can take over the market fine Ill buy, if they cant then you are just helping prolong the ridiculous war.

08-31-2007, 07:45 PM	#8
patrick99 Special Member Member since:Jun 2007	I too think that Blu-ray is clearly the technically superior format. For that reason, although I own an HD DVD player and formerly bought HD DVDs, I now refuse to do anything that helps the HD DVD format. I neither buy new HD DVDs nor even watch the ones I already own.

08-31-2007, 07:49 PM	#10
DrinkMore Banned Member since:Apr 2007 Location:That's What She Said! Blu-ray collection:140 Blu-ray reviews:7 Trading Score:3	Supporting both formats is like.. Putting 22" rims on one side of your car and 16" rims on the otherside. How cool is that? NOT

08-31-2007, 07:53 PM	#13
blujacket Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Dayton,Ohio 4K collection:70 Blu-ray collection:658	You're exactly the person Micro$oft is banking on prolonging this war. Don't give in. HDdvd will die as long as we keep supporting Blu-ray. I can't see Universal staying exclusive that much longer either. Just say no to HDdvd.

08-31-2007, 07:55 PM	#14
BigB88 Active Member Member since:Aug 2007	Going neutral simply prolongs the nonsense. BluRay is superior technology, BluRay still has significant support with movie distributors as well as Computer manufacturers and CE manfacturers. Blu Ray is dominating everywhere else in the world, including North America (2:1). So your going out and "wasting" money just so you can see a couple of movies offered on one format vs. another? This lacks all sense of logical thinking. This is still a niche market, it needs time to grow, but it can only grow with ONE format. If you like HD-DVD and have a player then go with it. If you like BluRay and have a player then go with that, but to go with both simply defeats the HDM medium, gives Microsoft a clear victory (one way or another - codec licesning or HD download) and keeps the consumers confused. It's a TIE!! Like kissing your sister!!! No one like ties, they like winners.

08-31-2007, 07:56 PM	#16
buckshot Blu-ray Guru Member since:Feb 2007 Location:san die ego Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:9	traitor. I take back what I said in the blu ray pledge of allegiance thread. we should shoot traitors. but I doubt we will.

08-31-2007, 07:57 PM	#17
Proteus Power Member Member since:Apr 2007 Location:SoCal PSN:CaptBurn	Respectfully, I have to point out that you are seriously mistake in your hypothesis. There will never be a 'flood of dual format players'. It will not happen. All major manufacturers of equipment are commited to Blu-ray with the only exception being Toshiba. HDDVD has one manufacturer, Toshiba and some unheard of chinese company that they were able to get 'onboard'. Did you not read all of the IFA announcements on new products? There was not one single new HDDVD player announced besides offerings from Toshiba. In fact, this mysterious chinese company hasn't even announced a product yet. Believe what you like, but I can assure you that every movie from Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks Animation that you could ever want to own will be 100% available on Blu-ray within the next two years. Bookmark this thread and in exactly two years come back and tell me I was wrong. Blu-ray's ability to offer a RECORDABLE solution to consumers combined with overwhelming manufacturer side support will win the 'war'. Studios are just working the money grabs right now because not a whole lot is at stake. If you want a _true_ indicator of which format will win... look at who all the new factories, manufacturing centers and hardware are being produced for. Only Blu-ray. Please search recent threads on this forum that contain links to the real reason why this 'war' is still even in existence. It's Microsoft... and only Microsoft. Even Toshiba wanted to abandon HDDVD in 2005 but Microsoft, completely frustrated by every single manufacturer and DVDForum refusing to make it's VC-1 (aka Windows Media 9 garbage) codec standard, forced Toshiba to continue with HDDVD production. Once people know the _truth_ then the choice is simple.

08-31-2007, 08:06 PM	#18
Blu-Light Expert Member Member since:Oct 2006	I kinda expected a post like this from you at some point. Your other posts were obvious to what you have been thinking. If you are smart and care about the future of an optical HD format than don't contribute to this nonsense. Paramont and Universal will be blue again soon enough.

08-31-2007, 08:11 PM	#20
johnnyd1 Expert Member Member since:May 2007 Location:RightBehindU, PA. Blu-ray reviews:5	Don't waste your money or my time by supporting this failed hddvd format !

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