7.1 setup - side channels act is if they are rear channels.

[shinseiRomeo]

This has been bugging me for years and even Onkyo directly couldn't provide me with the best answer. My current setup is a PS3 to an Onkyo SR705 to my Viera plasma, all HDMI connections. PS3 is on PCM, auto output is selected.

When I use the listening mode "Multich" during a 5.1 movie, the center channel and fronts are normal, but my side speakers act as the rear. The only way to combat this is to choose another listening mode such as THX Select2, which is what I have been doing by default for years now.

Is it true that "Multich" will provide with the best quality audio, or is that up to interpretation? Is there a way to combat the sides acting as the rears when using this mode?

[Drew664]

Your sides are actually the 4th and 5th channels so to speak in a 7 channel configuration, so they are the only ones that are supposed to be on during a 5.1 movie...

But just to make sure I am understanding this problem correctly - When you put in a movie and it has a (5.1) Dolby Digital track, is your AVR set to play the straight Dolby Digital track or do you play it with another DSP? (PLLX Movie, etc)

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by shinseiromeo

This has been bugging me for years and even Onkyo directly couldn't provide me with the best answer. My current setup is a PS3 to an Onkyo SR705 to my Viera plasma, all HDMI connections. PS3 is on PCM, auto output is selected.

When I use the listening mode "Multich" during a 5.1 movie, the center channel and fronts are normal, but my side speakers act as the rear. The only way to combat this is to choose another listening mode such as THX Select2, which is what I have been doing by default for years now.

What do you mean by the sides acting as the rears? In a 5.1 system, there are only two surround speakers, which go on the sides slightly behind the listening position. If you have a 7.1 system and play a 5.1 source without adding any processing, the rears will be silent. I suspect you are under the impression that a 5.1 system has rear speakers and 7.1 adds the sides. That is not the case. It works the other way.

Is it true that "Multich" will provide with the best quality audio, or is that up to interpretation? Is there a way to combat the sides acting as the rears when using this mode?

"Multich" means it processes the multichannel audio, doing bass management, distance adjustments, and other such tasks. But, it does not attempt to reroute audio, add echo/reverb, or increase the number of channels. In other words, it pretty much plays the audio as it was mixed.

Other DSPs (which Onkyo calls listening modes) change the mix. If you have a 7.1 system and like to hear audio from the rears, I suggest you use a listening mode such as PLIIx that expands 5.1 to 7.1.

[shinseiRomeo]

Originally Posted by Drew664

Your sides are actually the 4th and 5th channels so to speak in a 7 channel configuration, so they are the only ones that are supposed to be on during a 5.1 movie...

But just to make sure I am understanding this problem correctly - When you put in a movie and it has a (5.1) Dolby Digital track, is your AVR set to play the straight Dolby Digital track or do you play it with another DSP? (PLLX Movie, etc)

When I play any BD my default listening mode for my Onkyo SR705 is THX Select2. If I choose Multich, as you mentioned with a 5.1 mix, the sides act as my rear. This is annoying to me because the audio is coming from the left and right, not behind me as it should be. In my home theater, I have the sides on my left and right walls as pictured here:

[Show spoiler]

By using THX Select2 it allows my rear speakers to act as the rears. My concern though is that with a 7.1 movie, am I making a mistake using this listening mode and not Multich? By using the THX option, is that downgrading the 7.1 to 5.1 because of the processing used in the mode?

[Beaner666]

When you play a movie with a straight 5.1 mix, without matrixing or expanding the audio to 7.1 what speakers are active?

Correct "5.1 only" configuation:

Front Left = ON
Front Center = ON
Front Right = ON
Surround (aka Side) Left = ON
Surround (aka Side) Right = ON
Rear (aka Behind You) Left = OFF
Rear (aka Behind You) Right = OFF
Subwoofer = ON

[Beaner666]

Originally Posted by BIslander

In a 5.1 system, there are only two surround speakers, which go on the sides slightly behind the listening position. If you have a 7.1 system and play a 5.1 source without adding any processing, the rears will be silent. I suspect you are under the impression that a 5.1 system has rear speakers and 7.1 adds the sides. That is not the case. It works the other way.

/\ /\ /\

What he said.

[shinseiRomeo]

Beaner, everything you posted is correct and what I am experiencing. I expected the rear channels to work in a 5.1 movie and not to disable them. I assumed the side channels in my setup would deactivate, not the rears. By using Multich with my setup during a 5.1 mix, it throws off the movie entirely as the sounds are not in the correct location.

Now that that's out of the way, if I use THX Select2 with a 7.1 mix on my setup, is that possibly downgrading the mix to 5.1 and deactivating/altering the sides? Is it better to use the Select2 listening mode during a 5.1 mix and use Multich during a 7.1 mix?

[blujacket]

Your sides shouldn't be in front of your seating. Sides should be @ 90-110 degrees, rears should be 135-150 degrees.


http://www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/...ide/index.html

[kingofgrills]

Originally Posted by shinseiromeo

Beaner, everything you posted is correct and what I am experiencing. I expected the rear channels to work in a 5.1 movie and not to disable them. I assumed the side channels in my setup would deactivate, not the rears. By using Multich with my setup during a 5.1 mix, it throws off the movie entirely as the sounds are not in the correct location.

Now that that's out of the way, if I use THX Select2 with a 7.1 mix on my setup, is that possibly downgrading the mix to 5.1 and deactivating/altering the sides? Is it better to use the Select2 listening mode during a 5.1 mix and use Multich during a 7.1 mix?

Where are your side surround speakers relative to your listening position? Your Onkyo is operation correctly. Rear surround speakers didn't come into play until 6.1 and 7.1 channel soundtracks were developed. 5.1 channel surround uses the surround speakers (side surround), and not rear surround channels.

[blujacket]

Originally Posted by kingofgrills

Where are your side surround speakers relative to your listening position? Your Onkyo is operation correctly. Rear surround speakers didn't come into play until 6.1 and 7.1 channel soundtracks were developed. 5.1 channel surround uses the surround speakers (side surround), and not rear surround channels.

Click the spoiler. They are in front of his seating.

[4hitter]

That room looks far too small to be effective as a 7.1 system in the first place, and yes your surrounds (sides) need to be brought back some.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by shinseiromeo

Beaner, everything you posted is correct and what I am experiencing. I expected the rear channels to work in a 5.1 movie and not to disable them. I assumed the side channels in my setup would deactivate, not the rears.

Your system is working as it should. The problem is your belief that a 5.1 system has rear speakers and a 7.1 system adds side speakers. Movies are not mixed that way. They are mixed with surround speakers on the sides. 7.1 mixes add the rears.

By using Multich with my setup during a 5.1 mix, it throws off the movie entirely as the sounds are not in the correct location.

Actually, the sounds are in the right location since that's how movies are mixed - with the surrounds on the sides, not in the back. You are hearing the movie the way it was designed for 5.1. Sending surround channel audio to rear speakers would put the sounds in the wrong location.

Now, if you want to spread the sound to your rears as well, then DSPs such as PLIIx and the THX mode you are using will extract some audio from the surrounds (the sides) and play it in the rears.

Plus, as others have noted, your room is not laid out for effective 7.1. You'd likely get better sound by moving the couch out a bit from the wall, moving the surrounds back to the corners, and running in 5.1.

[centauro74]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Your system is working as it should. The problem is your belief that a 5.1 system has rear speakers and a 7.1 system adds side speakers. Movies are not mixed that way. They are mixed with surround speakers on the sides. 7.1 mixes add the rears. DSPs such as PLIIx and the THX mode you are using will extract audio from the surrounds (the sides) and move it to the rears.

Plus, as others have noted, your room is laid out for effective 7.1. You'd likely get better sound by moving the couch out a bit from the wall, moving the surrounds back to the corners, and running in 5.1.

I think he's cofuse of whish speakers are working on 5.1, he thinks the back speakers are working on 5.1 sound, but it's the opposite. So his onkyo is working correct in multichannel.
He can keep the 7.1, but he should move the couch a little foward, and maybe lift the sorrounds a little higher, like one foot more.

[Dubstar]

"in my 7.1 setup - they side channels act is if they are rear channels'

answer: that's because that is how it's been mixed. Only two movies have been mastered with side channeling in mind and those are Toy Story 3 and Step Up 3, although the review of the Beauty and the Beast bluray seems to be mixed in that configurament as well. All other 7.1 mixes are mixed to simulate a spread out four channel rear wall of sound, not a true 360 degree soundscape in mind - where sound comes from the side.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

Only two movies have been mastered with side channeling in mind and those are Toy Story 3 and Step Up 3, although the review of the Beauty and the Beast bluray seems to be mixed in that configurament as well. All other 7.1 mixes are mixed to simulate a spread out four channel rear wall of sound, not a true 360 degree soundscape in mind - where sound comes from the side.

Can you explain more about this? I've never heard of "side channeling". Are you saying there are no other movies mixed where sounds originate from specific points on the sides or behind the listener? I hear those kinds of effects quite often, even in 5.1 mixes. So, I am curious about what you mean here.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Can you explain more about this? I've never heard of "side channeling". Are you saying there are no other movies mixed where sounds originate from specific points on the sides or behind the listener? I hear those kinds of effects quite often, even in 5.1 mixes. So, I am curious about what you mean here.

I think he may have been a little confused... I think he meant the surround back channels are rarely used. But I don't know what side channeling means.

Also, Dubstar, Disney actually has a few 7.1 mixes. And you are correct, they're completely remixed and remastered where as Lionsgate (technically I think Mi Casa does it) just takes the 5.1 stems and creates a 7.1 mix from them. And yes, Beauty and the Beast has a 7.1 mix (just like pretty much every single classic Disney film released so far... and Nightmare Before Christmas as well).

[LordoftheRings]

One thing I know fo sur though, is that his receiver, the Onkyo TX-SR705, is a very nice receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT and lots of processing power from three Texas Instruments AUREUS 32-bit DSP chips (TMS 320, the DAC 710/708/707).
And it is also THX Select2 certified. The DAC is the Cirrus Logic Crystal CS42528, an 8-channel DAC on one chip; with another extra one, the CS4398.

* This receiver is a true Legend.

[shinseiRomeo]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

One thing I know fo sur though, is that his receiver, the Onkyo TX-SR705, is a very nice receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT and lots of processing power from three Texas Instruments AUREUS 32-bit DSP chips (TMS 320, the DAC 710/708/707).
And it is also THX Select2 certified. The DAC is the Cirrus Logic Crystal CS42528, an 8-channel DAC on one chip; with another extra one, the CS4398.

* This receiver is a true Legend.

Thank you! I chose it very carefully back in '07. Made sure not to go cheap.


Just to clarify with everyone, using my setup I expected a 5.1 mix to ignore the speakers to my left and right (side channels) and just utilize the front, center, and rear as if the sides never existed. I now understand this isn't the case.

My main question now would be is there a recommended listening mode depending on the movie audio source? Should I use THX Select2 for 5.1 mixes with my setup and use Multich for 7.1 mixes, or should I just use the THX mode for all situations? (which is what I have always done)

[Drew664]

Try a few and see what you like.

When I had my Onkyo and I was playing 5.1 material through 7.1 channels, I enjoyed the PLLX Movie mode the best. I found that the THX modes were soft? By now you are probably used to the THX sound so maybe you'll end up liking it the most, but definitely try a few of the others.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by shinseiromeo

Thank you! I chose it very carefully back in '07. Made sure not to go cheap.


Just to clarify with everyone, using my setup I expected a 5.1 mix to ignore the speakers to my left and right (side channels) and just utilize the front, center, and rear as if the sides never existed. I now understand this isn't the case.

My main question now would be is there a recommended listening mode depending on the movie audio source? Should I use THX Select2 for 5.1 mixes with my setup and use Multich for 7.1 mixes, or should I just use the THX mode for all situations? (which is what I have always done)

Whatever listening mode you use is up to you.

But like others have said, I would move that couch away from the wall (to produce at least a 90 degree angle with the side channels) and raise the speakers a bit.