Blu-ray Film Transfer Anomalies Guides - Blu-ray Forum

aggienader08 · 05-05-2010, 06:17 PM

I thought it would be educational and informative to start a thread discussing and showing what the different kinds of anomalies caused by after effects such as edge enhancement (EE), digital noise reduction (DNR),etc. look like. Included are other effects such as aliasing, "haloing", artifacts, dirt, and other unnatural anomalies. This is so that other members can get a true sense of what they really are and how they can effect certain transfers. PLEASE POST PICS AND EXAMPLES if possible. If pics are available of these anomalies from current blu-ray or DVD releases then please post if you have them. I will try my best to keep the thread updated with more accurate information if my facts are a little fuzzy.

Other natural effects like film grain, color palettes and the like can also be discussed. NOTE: This isn't a film grain lovers or haters thread, so try hard to withhold your "preferences" for either.

I think the effects are important for members of the forum to understand. I am not as educated as I would like to be, so this is a chance for all the pros to educate the forum.

Color Banding (shown below)

DNR and Contrast Boosting:
Gangs of New York (original)
Gangs of New York (remastered)

DSR(Dirt and Scratch Removal)/DVNR(Digital Video Noise Reduction) manipulation errors:
Gladiator

Edge Enhancement:
EE or unsharp masking and Videophile definition

Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford

Look at the edges of the actors in this capture:
https://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/1365_7_1080p.jpg
Excessive sharpening also brings out grain/noise, which you can see there.

Pixelation/Encoding Error:
Matrix Revolutions

Special Thanks to forum members:
kpkelley
42041
Suntory Times

kpkelley · 05-05-2010, 06:49 PM

Pixelation/encoding error.

Matrix Revolutions

The original pressing of The Delightful Forest also had an instace of extreme pixelation, but I haven't found a screenshot of it. Well Go USA has established a replacement policy for owner's of that first pressing.

aggienader08 · 05-05-2010, 06:50 PM

good one.

kpkelley · 05-05-2010, 06:55 PM

DSR(Dirt and Scratch Removal) or DVNR(Digital Video Noise Reduction) manipulation error.

Gladiator

singhcr · 05-05-2010, 07:06 PM

DNR, contrast boosting.

Gangs of New York (original)
Gangs of New York (remastered)

kpkelley · 05-05-2010, 07:10 PM

Edge Enhancement

Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford

aggienader08 · 05-05-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singhcr

DNR, contrast boosting.

Gangs of New York (original)
Gangs of New York (remastered)

Wow!

42041 · 05-05-2010, 07:14 PM

Some variants of DNR processing can't be fully conveyed by a still frame, because they work over several frames. Film grain is completely random phenomenon, so if it's not humming along randomly at 24fps but lingering between frames or clumping into frozen patterns (that get smeared when something moves through that area of the image), you're probably seeing some sort of temporal DNR at work.

Evil Dead 2 is a particularly egregious case of someone abusing that filter.

aggienader08 · 05-05-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpkelley

Edge Enhancement

Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford

That's some massive EE!!

aggienader08 · 05-05-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 42041

Some variants of DNR processing can't be fully conveyed by a still frame, because they work over several frames. Film grain is completely random phenomenon, so if it's not humming along randomly at 24fps but lingering between frames or clumping into frozen patterns (that get smeared when something moves through that area of the image), you're probably seeing some sort of temporal DNR at work.

Evil Dead 2 is a particularly egregious case of someone abusing that filter.

Evil Dead 2 is a very hard transfer for me to watch, I think this is why!

aggienader08 · 05-05-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpkelley

DSR(Dirt and Scratch Removal) or DVNR(Digital Video Noise Reduction) manipulation error.

Gladiator

It looks like crap and makes me want to ralph everywhere, but where is the DVNR? I just looks like the 720 x 480 is just being blown up in the comparison. Maybe I'm having trouble understanding it.

42041 · 05-05-2010, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aggienader08

It looks like crap and makes me want to ralph everywhere, but where is the DVNR? I just looks like the 720 x 480 is just being blown up in the comparison. Maybe I'm having trouble understanding it.

Note that the arrows are being airbrushed out on the blu-ray, because they're moving fast through the image and being confused for dirt/scratches.

aggienader08 · 05-05-2010, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 42041

Note that the arrows are being airbrushed out on the blu-ray, because they're moving fast through the image and being confused for dirt/scratches.

Yes I do notice that now. Thanks. That's really brutal. I can't believe they did that.

tgwtg · 05-06-2010, 02:23 AM

Gladiator looks terrible when compared to the other Sapphire Series: Braveheart. As for the scratch and dirt removal, It's so obvious that they're arrows and not scratches. Are the guys responsible for the blu-ray complete morons?

42041 · 05-06-2010, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgwtg

Gladiator looks terrible when compared to the other Sapphire Series: Braveheart. As for the scratch and dirt removal, It's so obvious that they're arrows and not scratches. Are the guys responsible for the blu-ray complete morons?

It's done with an automated algorithm. I've heard that film cleanup is usually a somewhat time consuming human-assisted process, but in this case they just let the computer have at it.

BasicGreatGuy · 05-06-2010, 02:36 AM

Excellent idea for a thread aggie. Thanks.

Minimejer05 · 05-06-2010, 02:50 AM

in the Jesse James link under the pictures.... are the Edge Enhancement pictures the ones with the zoom in? Or are they all? Because I know the first picture is supposed to have that weird scoped view...same with a few others. I thought Edge Enhancement was something they did while transferring the film... but thats how it looked in theaters...

Trogdor2010 · 05-06-2010, 02:52 AM

What about posteurization? That happens in alot of animated cartoons (especially CGI cartoons).

SteelPen · 05-06-2010, 03:10 AM

You guys lost me at hello! I need to do some homework!

zahinn · 05-06-2010, 03:22 AM

I still don't fully understand these...They say that TDK also had a lot of DNR...can someone post some examples ?

05-05-2010, 06:17 PM	#1
aggienader08 Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Jan 2009 Location:Fort Worth, TX Home Theater Gallery:24 Blu-ray collection:513 Blu-ray reviews: 3	Blu-ray Film Transfer Anomalies Guides I thought it would be educational and informative to start a thread discussing and showing what the different kinds of anomalies caused by after effects such as edge enhancement (EE), digital noise reduction (DNR),etc. look like. Included are other effects such as aliasing, "haloing", artifacts, dirt, and other unnatural anomalies. This is so that other members can get a true sense of what they really are and how they can effect certain transfers. PLEASE POST PICS AND EXAMPLES if possible. If pics are available of these anomalies from current blu-ray or DVD releases then please post if you have them. I will try my best to keep the thread updated with more accurate information if my facts are a little fuzzy. Other natural effects like film grain, color palettes and the like can also be discussed. NOTE: This isn't a film grain lovers or haters thread, so try hard to withhold your "preferences" for either. I think the effects are important for members of the forum to understand. I am not as educated as I would like to be, so this is a chance for all the pros to educate the forum. Color Banding (shown below) DNR and Contrast Boosting: Gangs of New York (original) Gangs of New York (remastered) DSR(Dirt and Scratch Removal)/DVNR(Digital Video Noise Reduction) manipulation errors: Gladiator Edge Enhancement: EE or unsharp masking and Videophile definition Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford Look at the edges of the actors in this capture: https://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/1365_7_1080p.jpg Excessive sharpening also brings out grain/noise, which you can see there. Pixelation/Encoding Error: Matrix Revolutions Special Thanks to forum members: kpkelley 42041 Suntory Times Last edited by aggienader08; 04-27-2011 at 07:58 PM.

05-05-2010, 06:49 PM	#2
kpkelley Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Framingham, MA 4K collection:385 Blu-ray collection:2478 Digital collection:113 Blu-ray reviews: 152	Pixelation/encoding error. Matrix Revolutions The original pressing of The Delightful Forest also had an instace of extreme pixelation, but I haven't found a screenshot of it. Well Go USA has established a replacement policy for owner's of that first pressing. Last edited by kpkelley; 05-05-2010 at 07:17 PM.

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05-05-2010, 06:50 PM	#3
aggienader08 Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Jan 2009 Location:Fort Worth, TX Home Theater Gallery:24 Blu-ray collection:513 Blu-ray reviews: 3	good one.

05-05-2010, 06:55 PM	#4
kpkelley Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Framingham, MA 4K collection:385 Blu-ray collection:2478 Digital collection:113 Blu-ray reviews: 152	DSR(Dirt and Scratch Removal) or DVNR(Digital Video Noise Reduction) manipulation error. Gladiator

05-05-2010, 07:06 PM	#5
singhcr Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Sep 2008 Location:Apple Valley, MN Home Theater Gallery:11 4K collection:4 Blu-ray collection:26 Blu-ray reviews:4 Trading Score:42	DNR, contrast boosting. Gangs of New York (original) Gangs of New York (remastered)

05-05-2010, 07:10 PM	#6
kpkelley Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Framingham, MA 4K collection:385 Blu-ray collection:2478 Digital collection:113 Blu-ray reviews: 152	Edge Enhancement Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford

05-05-2010, 07:14 PM	#8
42041 Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Oct 2008	Some variants of DNR processing can't be fully conveyed by a still frame, because they work over several frames. Film grain is completely random phenomenon, so if it's not humming along randomly at 24fps but lingering between frames or clumping into frozen patterns (that get smeared when something moves through that area of the image), you're probably seeing some sort of temporal DNR at work. Evil Dead 2 is a particularly egregious case of someone abusing that filter.

05-06-2010, 02:23 AM	#14
tgwtg Active Member Member since:Feb 2010 Location:Fantasia Blu-ray collection:216 DVD collection:69	Gladiator looks terrible when compared to the other Sapphire Series: Braveheart. As for the scratch and dirt removal, It's so obvious that they're arrows and not scratches. Are the guys responsible for the blu-ray complete morons?

05-06-2010, 02:36 AM	#16
BasicGreatGuy Power Member Top contributor Member since:Mar 2010 Location:Atlanta - SteelBooks™: 16 Blu-ray collection:320 Trading Score:31	Excellent idea for a thread aggie. Thanks.

05-06-2010, 02:50 AM	#17
Minimejer05 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Dec 2007 Location:Minnesota Home Theater Gallery:14 4K collection:532 Blu-ray collection:1995 Blu-ray reviews:28 Trading Score:6	in the Jesse James link under the pictures.... are the Edge Enhancement pictures the ones with the zoom in? Or are they all? Because I know the first picture is supposed to have that weird scoped view...same with a few others. I thought Edge Enhancement was something they did while transferring the film... but thats how it looked in theaters...

05-06-2010, 02:52 AM	#18
Trogdor2010 Blu-ray Guru Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Mar 2009 Home Theater Gallery:45 Blu-ray collection:266	What about posteurization? That happens in alot of animated cartoons (especially CGI cartoons).

05-06-2010, 03:10 AM	#19
SteelPen Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Dec 2009 Location:Bartow, FL 4K collection:170 Blu-ray collection:425 Trading Score:139	You guys lost me at hello! I need to do some homework!

05-06-2010, 03:22 AM	#20
zahinn Special Member Member since:Feb 2009 4K collection:5 Blu-ray collection:150	I still don't fully understand these...They say that TDK also had a lot of DNR...can someone post some examples ?

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