CAPS system Vs. Toon Boom Animation System

[disneyfreak]

So, in my opinion the movies that use the TB system are not the same feel, as w/ CAPS, i know its a complete different system, but PATF felt nothing animation wise, are even close to the classics. It would be great if they could come out w/ a new system or bring back CAPS What do you guys like better?? CAPS or TB Animation

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by disneyfreak

So, in my opinion the movies that use the TB system are not the same feel, as w/ CAPS, i know its a complete different system, but PATF felt nothing animation wise, are even close to the classics. It would be great if they could come out w/ a new system or bring back CAPS What do you guys like better?? CAPS or TB Animation

The system doesn't matter. What matters is the quality of the animators. Seeing that supervising animators as Mark Henn, Andreas Deja and Eric Goldberg also worked on the CAPS movies you talked about, I think you're seeing things that aren't there.

I do have to say that the quality of animation was still miles and miles better during Walt's years. All the digital revolutions still haven't been able to top the work of those guys. Incredible.

[disneyfreak]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

The system doesn't matter. What matters is the quality of the animators. Seeing that supervising animators as Mark Henn, Andreas Deja and Eric Goldberg also worked on the CAPS movies you talked about, I think you're seeing things that aren't there.

I do have to say that the quality of animation was still miles and miles better during Walt's years. All the digital revolutions still haven't been able to top the work of those guys. Incredible.

i tend to disagree, lets just compare: PATF and BATB, Andreas Deja worked on both, the systems ARE different, the style of the art, including the backgrounds, the backgrounds were so much better in the CAPS, compare the backgrounds of TLM TLK and BATB to PATF, then tell me there isn't a difference. I don't know the procedure 4 the other system Toon Boom, are they handpainted?? because the backgrounds are amazing.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by disneyfreak

i tend to disagree, lets just compare: PATF and BATB, Andreas Deja worked on both, the systems ARE different, the style of the art, including the backgrounds, the backgrounds were so much better in the CAPS, compare the backgrounds of TLM TLK and BATB to PATF, then tell me there isn't a difference. I don't know the procedure 4 the other system Toon Boom, are they handpainted?? because the backgrounds are amazing.

Beauty and the Beast has some atrocious animation in (a lot of) places, as does The Little Mermaid. By the Way, TLM wasn't done in CAPS, except for one shot, so if you say that that one looks better because of CAPS, you're wrong.
The style of its art obviously is different, since one portrayed a French village in the 1800's (I think) and the other portrayed New Orleans in the 1910's. Of course they're going to look different. The Lion King looks completely different from BATB and TLM as well.

[Jezza]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

Beauty and the Beast has some atrocious animation in (a lot of) places, as does The Little Mermaid. By the Way, TLM wasn't done in CAPS, except for one shot, so if you say that that one looks better because of CAPS, you're wrong.
The style of its art obviously is different, since one portrayed a French village in the 1800's (I think) and the other portrayed New Orleans in the 1910's. Of course they're going to look different. The Lion King looks completely different from BATB and TLM as well.

I couldn't disagree more. To say Beauty and the Beast has a lot of atrocious animation is a very arogant statement and I would even go so far as to say insulting the animators, especially when they were and still are the best in the buisness at the moment.:

[MJW]

Originally Posted by Jezza

I couldn't disagree more. To say Beauty and the Beast has a lot of atrocious animation is a very arogant statement and I would even go so far as to say insulting the animators, especially when they were and still are the best in the buisness at the moment.:

I'm not knocking the animation, but I think even the animators and filmmakers themselves admitted that BATB wasn't necessarily the "prettiest" film in terms of drawing and animation (someone said something along those line in the bonus features of one of the 90's films on DVD). You have to remember, this film was made under strict deadlines and a tight budget.

It's kind of a running joke that people notice that Belle is the "woman of 1,000 noses" or something, meaning her looks change between a lot of the shots. The same has been said of Ariel in The Little Mermaid.

Again, I'm a fan of BATB and all the Disney films, so I'm not knocking them, just pointing out what I'd seen/heard in the past. I think that the heart in each of these films definitely makes up for any "flaws" perceived in the artwork.

[Jezza]

Originally Posted by MJW

I'm not knocking the animation, but I think even the animators and filmmakers themselves admitted that BATB wasn't necessarily the "prettiest" film in terms of drawing and animation (someone said something along those line in the bonus features of one of the 90's films on DVD). You have to remember, this film was made under strict deadlines and a tight budget.

It's kind of a running joke that people notice that Belle is the "woman of 1,000 noses" or something, meaning her looks change between a lot of the shots. The same has been said of Ariel in The Little Mermaid.

Again, I'm a fan of BATB and all the Disney films, so I'm not knocking them, just pointing out what I'd seen/heard in the past. I think that the heart in each of these films definitely makes up for any "flaws" perceived in the artwork.

Oh, I'm not syaing it's the best looking Disney film ever, even as a massive Disney fan myself and a huge fan of BATB know this, but to say that it has a lot of atrocious animation is a massive overrstatement.

[disneyfreak]

This is my favorite movie ever and i do have to say one thing is Belle does change her look in a few of frames but overall is pretty consistent. BUT the other characters are very well done like Glen Keane's drawings of the Beast, or most other characters. Not sure on other artists besides Andreas Deja's Gaston which was consistent. But the animation was rushed after they had to redo the whole film almost. but that does not change anything, the backgrounds more specifically compare ANY CAPS system movie w/ ANY Toon boom the style of animation and the backgrounds are different.

P.s sorry bout that was thinking about renaissance a lot when i said TLM b/c thats when it started :P

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Jezza

I couldn't disagree more. To say Beauty and the Beast has a lot of atrocious animation is a very arogant statement and I would even go so far as to say insulting the animators, especially when they were and still are the best in the buisness at the moment.:

I think the animators would agree with me. How is arrogant to state that? Or insulting?
Also, 'best in the business' doesn't really mean anything, when the majority of hand drawn animation is outsourced to China. What I find depressing is that apparently they still haven't reached the levels of sophistication and quality Disney's Nine Old Men reached so many years earlier.

[disneyfreak]

Granted disneys animation was back then, but i think snow whites animation isn't near the 90's films. Just another point to prove that the differences compare TLK 1 in CAPS with TLK 2 Toon Boom THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. there is a difference in animation style. Its not just the animators

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by disneyfreak

Granted disneys animation was back then, but i think snow whites animation isn't near the 90's films. Just another point to prove that the differences compare TLK 1 in CAPS with TLK 2 Toon Boom THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. there is a difference in animation style. Its not just the animators

I think in that case it very much is about the animators. The Lion King 2 was done with different people, with less money, and less time. By that standard, The Lion King 2 and The Princess and the Frog look identical because of the system used. It doesn't work that way.

[disneyfreak]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

I think in that case it very much is about the animators. The Lion King 2 was done with different people, with less money, and less time. By that standard, The Lion King 2 and The Princess and the Frog look identical because of the system used. It doesn't work that way.

Im NOT talking about the animation. The character coloring and the backgrounds are different. They used different methods and the systems are different. Caps has a difference is what im proving. CAPS is better in my opinion also, and i don't think they should have tooken the system apart.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by disneyfreak

Im NOT talking about the animation. The character coloring and the backgrounds are different. They used different methods and the systems are different. Caps has a difference is what im proving. CAPS is better in my opinion also, and i don't think they should have tooken the system apart.

What are you talking about? You were talking about the animation right here:

Originally Posted by disneyfreak

Just another point to prove that the differences compare TLK 1 in CAPS with TLK 2 Toon Boom THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. there is a difference in animation style. Its not just the animators

So what, are you referring to the animation, the animation style, the backgrounds, the style of the backgrounds or something that actually doesn't have anything to do with all of that: the system on which it's made?

[disneyfreak]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

What are you talking about? You were talking about the animation right here:



So what, are you referring to the animation, the animation style, the backgrounds, the style of the backgrounds or something that actually doesn't have anything to do with all of that: the system on which it's made?

Firstly The animation its not the drawings specifically but if you look at the color palletes and the feel its different. The backgrounds are very different, along w/ effects. The characters are even colored different it seems.