Is it wrong to want a CFW on PSP/PSV?

[ps3bd_owner]

Me: No, and here's why.

Custom Firmware allows the console to expand its features to the Homebrew Community, which allows to run, applications, games, plugins, its full potential and whatever is possible within the machine.

Now there's the bad side, the piracy, despite all the greatness of CFW and Homebrew Communities' of PSP, due to piracy CFW/HC get bashed for illegal activities on the console.

You bought it, it's yours and you're free to install the software you please to, though, like Xbox 360 you get banned if you end hacking it.

As of now, I don't have a PSP but really, it's pointless people criticizing the homebrew side of PSP when it allows so much more than Sony ever did to PSP (in terms of features/apps).

I'm planning on buying a PSP and installing it CFW to enjoy the both worlds, official + homebrew. I've seen Sony did make use of the homebrew community plugin' on PSV, the screenshot ability is what I'm talking about.

PSP Homebrew didn't ruin PSP, piracy did and the people who literally just bought PSPs to install CFW for the wrong reasons (play pirated games).

^ However, if there's someone who bought the UMDs and wanted to backup them on his/her memory card in a smaller size I don't see the prob, it saves time, space and no need for physical space waste (UMDs are really cool looking discs + collectibles too).

Btw, I hope this will stay open for discussion, if there's anyone interested in leaving a comment.

Cya.

[boredandlazy]

You own the hardware yes, but you don't own the software(OS). You simply purchased the right to use the software within the terms and conditions given to you by Sony.

[PA_Kid]

Don't see the need for custom firmware nor do I want it.

I'm an android guy, but I can see the appeal of iOS's walled garden. In a mass consumer device, I like safety, consistency, usability, and standardization.

I'm glad we have both ends in smartphones, but I see little or no reason why we have to have it in a handheld gaming system. While I appreciate that there are good people who want to use custom firmware for good reason, the reality is that the needs of the many should outweigh the wants of a few in this case.

It's kinda like mandatory car insurance. Yes, most people would get insurance anyway or are really good and safe drivers if they didn't get it - but the security needs to be there for the few bad apples that don't want to pay and drive like idiots.

I know you don't see it this way, but I'd rather have you and the black hats limited than open things up to the black hats at all.

(This may be a totally stupid question, but with the barrier to entry even lower with the developers kit - is there a reason that people interested in CFW type programs can't play in the dev world and turn thier great ideas into apps?)

[Lucy Diamond]

I think this would help everybody out on both sides and I think Sony could make money by using a trick from the music industry on this one.

Everybody (who plays or wants to play) buys a guitar...right?? No guitarist worth a damn keeps his instrument stock, so all guitars are designed to be modifiable. However...if you modify your instrument, your warranty becomes null and void and you must pay to get anything done by the manufacturer after that. (which nobody does.)

Now...

How is this relevant??

Allowing this custom firmware or open source or whatever we decide to call it will open up a world for the homebrew enthusiast and Sony can say "Here...mod the $h!t out of your PsVita...this will void the warranty but if anything goes wrong you can buy another one." They could make a ton of money on the wannabes who have no business modifying anything and the overall gaming community can benefit from those who DO know what they are doing.

I see great things for both sides.

Let the arguments and flame wars begin.

[PA_Kid]

Originally Posted by Lucy Diamond

I think this would help everybody out on both sides and I think Sony could make money by using a trick from the music industry on this one.

Everybody (who plays or wants to play) buys a guitar...right?? No guitarist worth a damn keeps his instrument stock, so all guitars are designed to be modifiable. However...if you modify your instrument, your warranty becomes null and void and you must pay to get anything done by the manufacturer after that. (which nobody does.)

Now...

How is this relevant??

Allowing this custom firmware or open source or whatever we decide to call it will open up a world for the homebrew enthusiast and Sony can say "Here...mod the $h!t out of your PsVita...this will void the warranty but if anything goes wrong you can buy another one." They could make a ton of money on the wannabes who have no business modifying anything and the overall gaming community can benefit from those who DO know what they are doing.

I see great things for both sides.

Let the arguments and flame wars begin.

Unfortunately I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison. When you mod your guitar, that doesn't also have potential impact on the itunes servers music is hosted on or the CD's you listen to.

I don't think that voided warranties are a real deterent to the people you're talking about.

As silly as it sounds, I still think a car or plane analogy is more apt. People want to think of Vitas as guitars - isolated items that you buy, can mod to your heart's content, and don't really impact anyone else. But they are really more like cars or planes - things you can buy and fully own, but due to the infrastructure they are used on, have rules and limitations placed on exactly what you can and cannot do with or to them.

Yes, I know that they are two very different scales and one is regulated at a government level - but I think the motivators are pretty similar.

[Uxi]

Trying to stop it is tilting at windmills. They should embrace it, make the power users go through a couple disclaimers/EULA's where they acknowledge voiding their warranty and ability to get on PSN, etc.

[AikonEnt]

If we lived in a world without scumbag pirates then I'd be all for it, but we don't unfortunately. So I want it locked up from tinkering as tight as it can be

[Uxi]

The problem is, much like gun control, it only inconveniences the law abiding and wastes Sony's resources. The l33t h4x0rs and scumbag pirates still do their thing.

[dtrush]

I don't see the real problem with using a CFW as long as it gets used offline only and doesn't affect other users. I don't agree in people attempting to pirate stuff with the CFW and especially believing they deserve to go online.

*See Sig*
I have 2 PS3's that get updated regularly and that I use in a 100% legit way. One for each TV. I purchase games and use them just like every other gamer does. I buy the games I want to play and subscribe to the services that are awesome, PlayStation Plus, Netflix etc. In fact, just last weekend I finally purchased Tales of Graces f. I definitely want Namco Ban Dai to make another Tales game so I will support them. I barely create enough time to work through the games though

My 3rd PS3 gets used for media and other cool things that CFW can bring. Of course, this PS3 has never been online, nor will it ever. That's irresponsible to think people would want to jeopardize others playing games online by the rules. I see no reason to think this is in any way wrong. CFW allows people to run their games off the hard drive which is much faster than the slower Blu-ray disc. Should be a full option like the Xbox has.

As far as my Vita, I haven't done any attempts at hacking yet. When something comes along that warrants I purchase another one I surely will and use CFW or a HEN or whatever on it. I have 1 PSPgo which is 100% legit and that I and the kids like to use because it has 32GB of games & movies that we can take with us. The PSP3000 basically is for UMD's and homebrew. Heck, I can up the clock speed and change UI functions that Sony doesn't provide. Thank you modder community!

On a side note, Sony promised me PS3 games remote play before I bought the Vita? Where is it? I know that using a PS3 w/CFW allows this. Why can't Sony hand it over like they demoed? I saw a video of Killzone 3 remote play. I pop in my Killzone 3 and it doesn't work?
Also, where are my damn promised PS1 classics? I was working through Xenogears on the PSPgo but want to continue natively on the Vita because the OLED is awesome.

[Hayabusa85]

Originally Posted by Uxi

The problem is, much like gun control, it only inconveniences the law abiding and wastes Sony's resources. The l33t h4x0rs and scumbag pirates still do their thing.

Not to the level they would be able to do it if it was opened up by Sony. How many years did it take for the PS3 to finally get cracked? And Sony put a stop to it in a hurry so people who buy a new PS3 can't use that method and people with an old PS3 have to not update firmware so they are locked out of online gaming and stuff. If it was opened up and simple to do with the only downside being voiding a warranty a ton of people would be doing it. Just like they did on the Dreamcast.

So no custom firmware shouldn't be allowed or wanted because everybody knows it will be used for piracy and stuff like that more than anything.

Oh and with the screenshot thing I highly doubt Sony looked at the fact or even knew that somebody did that for PSP on the custom firmware and not that they looked at the fact that the iDevices to that. Especially when the way to do it is pretty much identical to how you do it on those.

[Lucy Diamond]

Originally Posted by PA_Kid

Unfortunately I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison. When you mod your guitar, that doesn't also have potential impact on the itunes servers music is hosted on or the CD's you listen to.

I don't think that voided warranties are a real deterent to the people you're talking about.

As silly as it sounds, I still think a car or plane analogy is more apt. People want to think of Vitas as guitars - isolated items that you buy, can mod to your heart's content, and don't really impact anyone else. But they are really more like cars or planes - things you can buy and fully own, but due to the infrastructure they are used on, have rules and limitations placed on exactly what you can and cannot do with or to them.

Yes, I know that they are two very different scales and one is regulated at a government level - but I think the motivators are pretty similar.

That's definitely an interesting way to look at it.

Especially considering anything with a broadcasted signal falls under FCC regulations.

[PA_Kid]

Originally Posted by Uxi

The problem is, much like gun control, it only inconveniences the law abiding and wastes Sony's resources. The l33t h4x0rs and scumbag pirates still do their thing.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree here, but I firmly believe things would be much, much worse if existing gun control did not exist. If anyone could go out and buy a gun with no backgroung check, waiting period, or accountability I firmly believe that we'd see a lot more firearm issues - both accidental and nefarious.

I won't argue that there is a point of diminishing return or that they can't be costly, but deterents in general do work in the way intended - chilling inapppropriate behavior as opposed to outright stopping it.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by PA_Kid

We'll probably have to agree to disagree here, but I firmly believe things would be much, much worse if existing gun control did not exist. If anyone could go out and buy a gun with no backgroung check, waiting period, or accountability I firmly believe that we'd see a lot more firearm issues - both accidental and nefarious.

No problem with an instant background check, but if someone already own even one gun (much less several), what is the purpose of a waiting period? They can already wig out. Maybe it could be reasonable for the first purchase, but after that it's doing nothing.

Besides, the point being that your average gang banger isn't and won't do any background check or waiting period or anything else. (They're probably not paying sales tax either). Go to "a guy" (or steals one), hand your money, and you're strapped. Does either one care they're breaking a bunch of laws?

The approach is well intentioned but naive and ultimately useless at stopping anyone except the law abiding. It doesn't touch the fundamental rights issue, either.

I won't argue that there is a point of diminishing return or that they can't be costly, but deterents in general do work in the way intended - chilling inapppropriate behavior as opposed to outright stopping it.

It might stop the neophyte or someone on the fence but there's a different group of people that see the challenge and want to be the first to crack/hack it. Most of the black hats don't publicize until well after the fact, if at all. Apple with a completely closed ecosystem has it's phones and tablets hacked within a couple days of release, if that long.

If it's transparent to the consumer, at best they don't care. The magic question being how much they spent on DRM plus how many lost sales due to various reasons (I know a tech head who despite being most impressed with my setup and demo of some highlight material, refuses to buy a PS3 because of blu-ray's DRM. Ironically enough he has no problem downloading Apple's stuff with it's DRM and walled garden and arbitrary store policies).

[ps3bd_owner]

Originally Posted by boredandlazy

You own the hardware yes, but you don't own the software(OS). You simply purchased the right to use the software within the terms and conditions given to you by Sony.

Well, consoles are computers, so when you or anyone else buys their own tower they decide to install/modify whatever they want from it.

Consoles shouldn't be any less different from computers.

If the user wants to install Linux on his computer, I don't see any prob, it's his choice of pick and he's the one to fully use the OS.

[PA_Kid]

Originally Posted by ps3bd_owner

Well, consoles are computers, so when you or anyone else buys their own tower they decide to install/modify whatever they want from it.

Consoles shouldn't be any less different from computers.

If the user wants to install Linux on his computer, I don't see any prob, it's his choice of pick and he's the one to fully use the OS.

And I imagine that if you could get a totally different OS running on the console without utilizing the provided liscensed software in any way, shape, or form - they probably wouldn't care.

I may be incorrect here, but isn't the reality that custom firmware isn't like replacing a windows OS with a linux OS, but instead modifying the windows OS in ways the provider never intended?

To boredandlazy's point, you don't own the OS - but to make custom firmware work, don't you need to build off the existing OS? If someone made a linux os that could be loaded to the Vita, but it meant loosing everything the Vita normally does, I doubt that there would be an issue - but isn't the reality with CFW users that they want both? The ability to run this custom OS but also have the original OS run basically fine? (Which I imagine means not just modifying the machine, but modifying the original OS?)

[ps3bd_owner]

Originally Posted by PA_Kid

And I imagine that if you could get a totally different OS running on the console without utilizing the provided liscensed software in any way, shape, or form - they probably wouldn't care.

I may be incorrect here, but isn't the reality that custom firmware isn't like replacing a windows OS with a linux OS, but instead modifying the windows OS in ways the provider never intended?

To boredandlazy's point, you don't own the OS - but to make custom firmware work, don't you need to build off the existing OS? If someone made a linux os that could be loaded to the Vita, but it meant loosing everything the Vita normally does, I doubt that there would be an issue - but isn't the reality with CFW users that they want both? The ability to run this custom OS but also have the original OS run basically fine? (Which I imagine means not just modifying the machine, but modifying the original OS?)

That's correct.

A CFW is a modified version of the official firmware but unlocked for homebrew apps/games.

There's also the other kind of CFW that allows pirated games to be played.

The homebrew part of PSP is getting negative feedback thanks to the pirates. -_-

[boredandlazy]

Originally Posted by ps3bd_owner

Well, consoles are computers, so when you or anyone else buys their own tower they decide to install/modify whatever they want from it.

Consoles shouldn't be any less different from computers.

If the user wants to install Linux on his computer, I don't see any prob, it's his choice of pick and he's the one to fully use the OS.

I was more talking about the legality of modifying the PSP OS rather than the installation of CFW(I have CFW on my PSP so I can play PS1 games I ripped from my own copies). I'm of the opinion that you can do what you want to your own console, as long as you can't use PSN because as soon as you do you're impacting people other than yourself.
However when people try to use the ownership argument in cases like this I just like to point out that that like buying a copy of Windows you're buying the right to use the software as is, rather than buying the right to use the OS as you see fit.