DTS master 7.1 vs Dolby surround

[bsmooth]

I'm a bit confused about this. I have an older Yamaha receiver RX-V757 and I just received the Dances with Wolves Blu-Ray. I had the receiver set to DTS 7.1 even though I only have a 5.1 (2 surrounds, 2 fronts,a center speaker, and a subwoofer) and didn't get hardly any lowend from my sub. If I have this setup for a theater system should I just have it set to Dolby digital instead and in my sound options on the Blu-Ray do the same?

[bsmooth]

Maybe more info might help a bit. Tonight I tried to get my dances with Wolves to work right. I set it meaning my Blu ray player menu to 7.1 DTS and It worked but just hardly. Now in comparison I tried my other Bluray disc How to train your Dragon and my reciever read Dolby Digital and everything sounded great.
So what i would like to know is why doesn't my DTS sound like my Dolby digital? I even changed the menu on the Dances with Wolves to Dolby english and the movie was dolby digital on the menus but when the movie started all I got was Pro Logic and not Dolby digital, so it sounded lifeless.
Is my receiver not able to handle DTS 7.1 master sound?

[Riddler95]

I just looked up your receiver and saw that it does not offer HDMI Inputs?

What kind of Blu-Ray Player are you using and how is it connected to your receiver? Are you using a Coaxial Cable or an Optical Cable?

What I did see is that your Yamaha RX-V757 does offer 7.1 Multi-Channel/Analogue Audio Inputs, you can easily get HD Sound by using these inputs, however you need a Stand Alone Blu-Ray Player that has 7.1 Multi-Channel/ Analogue Audio Inputs, and onboard decoding for
Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Audio. Since you have a 5.1 System, the Blu-Ray Player will downmix any 7.1 Signal to a 5.1 Signal.

You can can easily connect a Blu-Ray Player to your Yamaha RX-V757 with this method and enjoy the wonderful HD Sound.

[bsmooth]

I have a Panasonic DMP-BD85 and I have a HDMI cable to my display and a coaxial cable to my receiver, and i do get great Dolby digital with How to train your dragon, but I can't get it with Dances with Wolves. On the reciever is a display and it says Dolby Digital when I have surround sound. I do get it the Dragon movie but what i get with Dances is DTS, which should be the same as Dolbly digital, but it just doesn't sound the same, even though all the speaker icons on my receiver are lit up. the Bass just doesn't seem to be there with Dances, but it thunders in Dragon.
Heres the really weird part, everything sounds great with regular DVD's with Dolby digital, they all sound great, But when I started getting Blu-Ray discs everything seemed to change, they aren't the same as regular DVD's.
Man I'm confused !

[BIslander]

Two things here:

1. What do you mean when you say you set your receiver to DTS 7.1? If you have five speakers and a sub, then the AVR should be configured for 5.1.

Plus, there's no such thing as setting a receiver for DTS or Dolby Digital. The source determines the audio codec and the AVR simply decodes whatever format the player is sending. With a dts-MA track, you should set your BD85's DTS output to bitstream. The player will send DTS over the optical and coax connections.

2. Your BD85 has multichannel analog outputs and can decode TrueHD and dts-MA. So, you might want to give analog a try. Connect six standard audio cables from the speaker outputs on the player to the matching speaker inputs on the receiver. Then, select the analog jacks as the audio source on your AVR. I have a BD55 and use the analog outputs to my older Denon that lacks HDMI. It sounds great. But, so does the digital coax path which I also have connected. So, you can't go wrong either way.

[Riddler95]

Originally Posted by bsmooth

I have a Panasonic DMP-BD85 and I have a HDMI cable to my display and a coaxial cable to my receiver, and i do get great Dolby digital with How to train your dragon, but I can't get it with Dances with Wolves. On the reciever is a display and it says Dolby Digital when I have surround sound. I do get it the Dragon movie but what i get with Dances is DTS, which should be the same as Dolbly digital, but it just doesn't sound the same, even though all the speaker icons on my receiver are lit up. the Bass just doesn't seem to be there with Dances, but it thunders in Dragon.
Heres the really weird part, everything sounds great with regular DVD's with Dolby digital, they all sound great, But when I started getting Blu-Ray discs everything seemed to change, they aren't the same as regular DVD's.
Man I'm confused !

Okay for starters your set your Panasonic DMP-BD85 to your receiver using the Multi-Channel/Analogue Audio Inputs, On the actual Blu-Ray Player, the outputs will be called Audio Out. all you need are regular RCA Audio Cables to accomplish the connection. Since you have a 5.1 System, you will need 6 cables going from the Blu-Ray Player to the receiver, five cables for the speakers, and one for the subwoofer. When the connection is done push the button on your receiver that is labeled Multi Ch Input and you will be listening to HD Sound on Blu-Ray. In my opinion this is the best way to listen to HD Sound on Blu-Ray. However I am unfamiliar with the Panasonic DMP-BD85, so go to the Player's Audio Settings and redo them, pull out the manual of the player just in case for a guide. Do this so all of the audio settings are set properly.

Keep the Coaxial Cable plugged into your receiver, because some Blu-Rays do not offer HD Sound, some only offer regular Dolby Digital or DTS Audio from DVD.

Also make sure your Blu-Ray Player has the latest firmware upgrade installed, do this to get the best playback performance from your Blu-Ray Player.

[bsmooth]

Thats the thing I have coaxial, and thats how I have my audio connected, I shouldn't need anything else.
As far as DTS and Dolby digital goes, shouldn't they sound similar? Also theres an option on the Dances with Wolves to have Dolby digital, and when i have it set to that, still no dolby digital.Doesn't all the sound come over the coax connector for the sound?
DTS should sound the same as Dolby Digital shouldn't it? The picture is just amazing, now If I can get the sound working the same way, I'll be all set.
Its this DTS its confusing, at least to me anyways.I just wonder what connecting RCA connectors will get me though, plus as you said leave the coax and the RCA connectors, I thought you needed one or the other?

[smeesmay]

there is no way of getting any more than 5 + 1 channels over a coax cable. What your doing is converting your lossless bd audio to lossy dts. Just plain dts. Which is 5 channels. now in this lossy downgrade there is a good possiblity your sub channel is getting cut off at some of the lower frequencies along with some of the higher frequencies probably. Now dolby digital is not lossless, so there is not as much info streaming across that coax cable. You are getting its full potential (although nowhere near true lossless DTS-MA 7.1) but probably packing more of a punch than your converted lossy DTS is giving you....As to why you cannot hear the dolby digital from dances with wolves, it may be that it is actually dolby true hd (which is lossless) and your bd will not allow it to be downgraded over the coax cable. No solid proof as I have yet to look into your specs, but a sound theory none the less. Hope this helps

[Scorxpion]

Originally Posted by bsmooth

Thats the thing I have coaxial, and thats how I have my audio connected, I shouldn't need anything else.
As far as DTS and Dolby digital goes, shouldn't they sound similar? Also theres an option on the Dances with Wolves to have Dolby digital, and when i have it set to that, still no dolby digital.Doesn't all the sound come over the coax connector for the sound?
DTS should sound the same as Dolby Digital shouldn't it? The picture is just amazing, now If I can get the sound working the same way, I'll be all set.
Its this DTS its confusing, at least to me anyways.I just wonder what connecting RCA connectors will get me though, plus as you said leave the coax and the RCA connectors, I thought you needed one or the other?

when you are using coaxial or optical cable ,your surround playback will be as follow: DTS or Dolby Digital like DVD ages.NOW BD is getting high definition sound meaning DTSHD master audio or DolbyTHD,in your case you have non-HDMI receiver correct ,in order to obtain High Definition sound you must connect your player to receiver through simple RCA cables for audio like left,right,center,sub,surround left and surround back ,in this case your player will decode the lossless sound and your receiver will output pure PCM suround sound.No need anymore for coaxial cable,but you can leave it no problem but you should automate your receiver to obtain the signal from 5.1 input and not through coaxial input.Again read the manual carefully for your panasonic player it's elaborating how to connect your player through non-HDMI receiver just for BD-85

[bsmooth]

Sorry for all the questions, its just a bit frustrating to upgrade to Blu-Ray from DVD and then seem to go backwards as far as the actual sound.
Right now I'm running the Player in bitstream, but I can still stay in bitstream If I go to rca cables can't I ? I thought the coax would be better than RCA, but I never even thought it wouldn't be able to move all the signal.
I've been at this for almost a week now, trying different settings and reading both my Receiver manual and the Blu-ray player, but the DTS really threw me, as well as BD sound which I still don't understand even after reading the manual.
Also my receiver can decode dolby, but not sure about DTS 7.1 or switching the Bluray from bitstream to PCM. But more wires arghhhh ! just what I need.
Sounds like a fun filled weekend wires and Hurricanes yeeha, who needs surround sound when you can have a Hurricane !

[smeesmay]

Originally Posted by bsmooth

Sorry for all the questions, its just a bit frustrating to upgrade to Blu-Ray from DVD and then seem to go backwards as far as the actual sound.
Right now I'm running the Player in bitstream, but I can still stay in bitstream If I go to rca cables can't I ? I thought the coax would be better than RCA, but I never even thought it wouldn't be able to move all the signal.
I've been at this for almost a week now, trying different settings and reading both my Receiver manual and the Blu-ray player, but the DTS really threw me, as well as BD sound which I still don't understand even after reading the manual.
Also my receiver can decode dolby, but not sure about DTS 7.1 or switching the Bluray from bitstream to PCM. But more wires arghhhh ! just what I need.
Sounds like a fun filled weekend wires and Hurricanes yeeha, who needs surround sound when you can have a Hurricane !

watch the perfect storm blu ray on mute and open your windows. Most immersive experience yet! Good luck with the setup and storms. You can only move full lossless audio (dolby true hd, DTS-MA) is by HDMI. so if your receiver will not accept HDMI you'll never get the full effect. 6 channel (6 rca's) is the closest you can hope for. Still great, but not top tier

[Scorxpion]

http://www.panasonic.ae/EN/Manuals/DMP-BD85.pdf

page 9 showing you how to connect

Page 29 how to hear high definition surround sound

Digital out should be choose as PCM and not bitstream as elaborate in this page 29

[Scorxpion]

Originally Posted by smeesmay

watch the perfect storm blu ray on mute and open your windows. Most immersive experience yet! Good luck with the setup and storms. You can only move full lossless audio (dolby true hd, DTS-MA) is by HDMI. so if your receiver will not accept HDMI you'll never get the full effect. 6 channel (6 rca's) is the closest you can hope for. Still great, but not top tier

Wrong assumption decoding inside a player still far more affordable than bitstreaming because there are some receiver cannot handle enough power for decoding and amplification at the same time ,Sometimes there is something can be lost it's way.For me and it is preferable always decoding in one part(Player) and hearing from another part(Receiver)

[drummerboy_2002]

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

Wrong assumption decoding inside a player still far more affordable than bitstreaming because there are some receiver cannot handle enough power for decoding and amplification at the same time ,Sometimes there is something can be lost it's way.For me and it is preferable always decoding in one part(Player) and hearing from another part(Receiver)

Perhapse you're thinking of recievers that cannot decode certain codecs AND apply additional DSPs. This is a processing power issue. I would hope no receiver suffers in amplification due to the decoding of bitstreams.

[drummerboy_2002]

Originally Posted by smeesmay

You can only move full lossless audio (dolby true hd, DTS-MA) is by HDMI. so if your receiver will not accept HDMI you'll never get the full effect. 6 channel (6 rca's) is the closest you can hope for. Still great, but not top tier

Incorrect. The only thing you lose by decoding in the player is any autocalibration and equalization that the receiver provides, as most don't apply such processing to the multi-analog inputs. Either method will provide lossless multi-channel audio.

[Scorxpion]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/home-theat...-question.html

My Answer was based on this expertise article and i found it useful,Anyway was answering the other poster what you have answered him right now.

[drummerboy_2002]

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

https://forum.blu-ray.com/home-theat...-question.html

My Answer was based on this expertise article and i found it useful,Anyway was answering the other poster what you have answered him right now.

I didn't see where it mentions any power issues, at least not on the first page. As far as which component is better to do the decoding, I find this thread far more helpful.

Why-do-we-need-equalization-room-correction?

[Scorxpion]

Originally Posted by drummerboy_2002

I didn't see where it mentions any power issues, at least not on the first page. As far as which component is better to do the decoding, I find this thread far more helpful.

Why-do-we-need-equalization-room-correction?

What i mean by power issue is not all receiver are manufactured like others,if you buy a receiver around $400 will it work like $1000 ,so power handling for both decoding and amplification can differentiate a little bit somewhere keeping in mind bitstreaming or decoding in player are the same theoretically but as for me i prefer Decoding inside the player.

[drummerboy_2002]

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

What i mean by power issue is not all receiver are manufactured like others,if you buy a receiver around $400 will it work like $1000 ,so power handling for both decoding and amplification can differentiate a little bit somewhere keeping in mind bitstreaming or decoding in player are the same theoretically but as for me i prefer Decoding inside the player.

I can't imaging that power requirements of the processor would be anything more than a drop in the bucket compared multichannel amplification.

Manufacturers often lie about power output. Receivers are a compromise in many areas due to cost and available realestate. There are many reasons to go with separates, but I've never seen processing power taking away amplification power listed as one.

You prefer decoding in the player, and that's fine. I feel no need to try to dissuade you. Just know that there are a few stickies on this site that provide compelling evidence to the contrary.

[bobbydrugar]

just a quick addition to the conversation when i had my old panasonic bdt350 which is similar to the bd85k i think i remember one of the audio setting about down mixing channels you will need to set that to 5.1 + 2.0 if i recall correctly might even be set independantly for dolby and dts. it sounds like it is correct for dolby but wrong for dts hence the prologic stereo up mix for dts sources. also may need to check your reciever to see if there is a setting for listening mode presets which might be changing your digital signal processor listening mode for different source signals

thanks,
T