revolutionary new video technique - Blu-ray Forum

radagast · 10-12-2007, 01:41 PM

Of interest to folks here is that this new technique was demostrated using eight cores. Sound familiar?

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News...x?NewsId=21608

Shu76 · 10-12-2007, 02:22 PM

nice.

DezNutz · 10-12-2007, 02:31 PM

eight cores would not directley correspond to the PS3 since game developers only have use of 6 "cores", and they are not actually cores...

One of the "cores" is reserved for production effiecientcy, and another is reserved for the PS3 operating system.. (XMB).. leaving 6 for game developers..

still this is a cool effect, and has some promise in today's gaming.

ps3andlovinit · 10-12-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radagast

Of interest to folks here is that this new technique was demostrated using eight cores. Sound familiar?

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News...x?NewsId=21608

Ha ha that's so funny. Thanks for the great find..just further proof that Crazy Ken and all the folks behind the Cell were ahead of the curve..can't wait until we get software that let's use our home PS3's together as a grid as well - for some really crazy video processing effects.

No matter what MS throws at the PS3 over the next 10 years the PS3 will be able to keep up via more powerful add-on modules...that's why it's called CELL.

Love this part in particular ..

"According to the PC Perspectives article, Daniel?s game reached almost 100 frames per second at 1024x1024 resolution. Note that as the resolution increases, the computation will spend more time tracing light rays for those additional pixels, and the frame rate will go down. To think that a PC with 8 cores can run a game like Quake IV without the use of a GPU, at high definition resolution and fluid frame rates, is impressive to say the least."

radagast · 10-12-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DezNutz

eight cores would not directley correspond to the PS3 since game developers only have use of 6 "cores", and they are not actually cores...

One of the "cores" is reserved for production effiecientcy, and another is reserved for the PS3 operating system.. (XMB).. leaving 6 for game developers..

still this is a cool effect, and has some promise in today's gaming.

I read somewhere that, in the PS3, one of the Cell's cores has been deactivated. While this technique may or may not be possible with the PS3, it might be a great possibility for the PS4 whenever it might be developed. It will be a few years before we see this anyway.

Even so, the article didn't say you have to have 8 cores, it said the demostration was done with 8 cores. Note this from the article:

"Ray-tracing is a workload that gets near perfect scaling the more cores you add"

RT could possibly be done on a PS3 but maybe not as good as with a full 8 cores.

Josh · 10-12-2007, 02:58 PM

What this article does show, is what Sony's original desire for the Cell was going to be. Ahead of its time, they had to add an external GPU because such techniques weren't available in time.

Ascended_Saiyan · 10-12-2007, 03:31 PM

Exactly! I can't wait for the PS4. It will probably have 2 Cell processors with all 8 SPEs active and NO GPU! That's 16 SPEs (maybe 10 SPEs for Ray Tracing beyond 1920x1080 resolution and the rest for physics and so forth).

The price for that unit should be the same price because Sony will be manufacturing Cell processors for the next 5 to 6 years before the next model is introduced. That would reduce the cost of the Cell to at least half of what it costs now. That would be truly amazing!

ps3andlovinit · 10-12-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh

What this article does show, is what Sony's original desire for the Cell was going to be. Ahead of its time, they had to add an external GPU because such techniques weren't available in time.

It's important because it shows that the GPU is NOT CRITICAL to producing photo realistic real-time images .. the PS3 can be expanded NOW by hooking multiple units together as a grid and the GPU is just there to shovel the output to the screen...we know that 1080p is going to be it for a little while and the PS3 has no problems there..

Lots of other media processing starts to become feasible in real-time with the more PS3's you have .. PS3 games have a base reference so throwing more PS3's at them doesn't fly..hmm.. I guess games could be designed to play at different levels just like video cards in the PC world are..and at least devs would be guaranteed the same hardware at least..

WriteSimply · 10-12-2007, 04:48 PM

Once the Cell can be produced in mass quantities, GPUs will use one or two to enable real-time ray tracing.

Several months ago, some tech head did a real-time ray tracing rendering using THREE PS3s (insert video joke). One PS3 was to handle the compilation of the video data while the other two handle the ray tracing.

fuad

Sonny · 10-12-2007, 04:54 PM

They can use mine that would be sweet.

Copywriter · 10-12-2007, 04:55 PM

PS3 was designed to be THE standard for years. The 360 was designed to be "good enough" for now.

And that's why I'd always be willing to pay a little more for Sony stuff than M-soft stuff.

Matt X · 10-12-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh

What this article does show, is what Sony's original desire for the Cell was going to be. Ahead of its time, they had to add an external GPU because such techniques weren't available in time.

....which means that maybe the GPU can be used as another "core" or at least for offloading physics processing...............drool

takezo · 10-12-2007, 08:16 PM

Quake 4? That not the best looking game out there (understatement).

Besides. GPUs are becoming faster, and faster every 6 months. They out pace CPUs interms of development, as all they gotta do is release a new card. CPUs such as Intels processors will need faster mobos, RAM, and HDDs.

The bottle neck in a PC is always the slowest component. An 8 core system can be acheived now with dual socket mobos and two intel quad core processors. With an 8 core PC, you need faster ram, such as dual channel DDR3, 16GB of it, 2GB for each core, then you need RAID 5 with five HDDs to maximize I/O speed. As with any software rendering program, their is always overhead by OS and translation of rendering APIs to the actual ray tracing data which is processed through the ray tracing algorithim then the display data is run by a background application which turns them to VGA signals to the display adapter (no rendering is done by graphics excellerator). 100% CPU, even with more cores what will be left for AI and physics?

A video card has it's own memory on it so it already has the fastest ram, video cards are so fast that it can off load majority of graphics work from PC. Most games are graphcis card intensive. Plus the fact that now two cards can be used to instantly double your performance. The fact is that GPUs are so fast that tringles will become so many and so small that you can't see them, shaders will eventualy use ray tracing techniques to acurately display lighting and shading.

Intel's Extream graphics processor seen in laptops and som of their mobos is almost pure CPU based except for some shader processing. Basicaly the faster the CPU is the better it is. But it can't run most of the newer games because of low shader support. The Intel Extreame grapics, is not extreame at all, it's slower than the most elcheapo ATI or Nvidia intergrated GPU in the market.

bottom line Intell does not know graphics, they only know Processors.

10-12-2007, 01:41 PM	#1
radagast Blu-ray Samurai Member since:May 2007 Location:Indianapolis	revolutionary new video technique - Ray Tracing Of interest to folks here is that this new technique was demostrated using eight cores. Sound familiar? http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News...x?NewsId=21608 Last edited by radagast; 10-12-2007 at 02:49 PM.

10-12-2007, 02:31 PM	#3
DezNutz Expert Member Member since:Mar 2007 Home Theater Gallery:8 Blu-ray collection:24	eight cores would not directley correspond to the PS3 since game developers only have use of 6 "cores", and they are not actually cores... One of the "cores" is reserved for production effiecientcy, and another is reserved for the PS3 operating system.. (XMB).. leaving 6 for game developers.. still this is a cool effect, and has some promise in today's gaming. Last edited by DezNutz; 10-12-2007 at 02:35 PM.

10-12-2007, 03:31 PM	#7
Ascended_Saiyan Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Sep 2006 Location:Atlanta, Georgia Blu-ray collection:608 Trading Score:1	Exactly! I can't wait for the PS4. It will probably have 2 Cell processors with all 8 SPEs active and NO GPU! That's 16 SPEs (maybe 10 SPEs for Ray Tracing beyond 1920x1080 resolution and the rest for physics and so forth). The price for that unit should be the same price because Sony will be manufacturing Cell processors for the next 5 to 6 years before the next model is introduced. That would reduce the cost of the Cell to at least half of what it costs now. That would be truly amazing! Last edited by Ascended_Saiyan; 10-12-2007 at 09:08 PM.

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10-12-2007, 02:22 PM	#2
Shu76 Active Member Member since:Feb 2007	nice.

10-12-2007, 02:58 PM	#6
Josh Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Sep 2006 Home Theater Gallery:50 4K collection:37 Blu-ray collection:407 Digital collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 15 Trading Score:34	What this article does show, is what Sony's original desire for the Cell was going to be. Ahead of its time, they had to add an external GPU because such techniques weren't available in time.

10-12-2007, 04:48 PM	#9
WriteSimply Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Sep 2006 Location:Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia	Once the Cell can be produced in mass quantities, GPUs will use one or two to enable real-time ray tracing. Several months ago, some tech head did a real-time ray tracing rendering using THREE PS3s (insert video joke). One PS3 was to handle the compilation of the video data while the other two handle the ray tracing. fuad

10-12-2007, 04:54 PM	#10
Sonny Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Aug 2007 Home Theater Gallery:8 Blu-ray reviews:6 Trading Score:1	They can use mine that would be sweet.

10-12-2007, 04:55 PM	#11
Copywriter Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Vegas Baby, Vegas	PS3 was designed to be THE standard for years. The 360 was designed to be "good enough" for now. And that's why I'd always be willing to pay a little more for Sony stuff than M-soft stuff.

10-12-2007, 08:16 PM	#13
takezo Active Member Member since:Aug 2006	Quake 4? That not the best looking game out there (understatement). Besides. GPUs are becoming faster, and faster every 6 months. They out pace CPUs interms of development, as all they gotta do is release a new card. CPUs such as Intels processors will need faster mobos, RAM, and HDDs. The bottle neck in a PC is always the slowest component. An 8 core system can be acheived now with dual socket mobos and two intel quad core processors. With an 8 core PC, you need faster ram, such as dual channel DDR3, 16GB of it, 2GB for each core, then you need RAID 5 with five HDDs to maximize I/O speed. As with any software rendering program, their is always overhead by OS and translation of rendering APIs to the actual ray tracing data which is processed through the ray tracing algorithim then the display data is run by a background application which turns them to VGA signals to the display adapter (no rendering is done by graphics excellerator). 100% CPU, even with more cores what will be left for AI and physics? A video card has it's own memory on it so it already has the fastest ram, video cards are so fast that it can off load majority of graphics work from PC. Most games are graphcis card intensive. Plus the fact that now two cards can be used to instantly double your performance. The fact is that GPUs are so fast that tringles will become so many and so small that you can't see them, shaders will eventualy use ray tracing techniques to acurately display lighting and shading. Intel's Extream graphics processor seen in laptops and som of their mobos is almost pure CPU based except for some shader processing. Basicaly the faster the CPU is the better it is. But it can't run most of the newer games because of low shader support. The Intel Extreame grapics, is not extreame at all, it's slower than the most elcheapo ATI or Nvidia intergrated GPU in the market. bottom line Intell does not know graphics, they only know Processors.

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