Kino: What's your definition?

[Abdrewes]

So, Kino has quite an interesting library: Directors Andrei Tarkovsky, Sergei Eisenstein, Wong Kar Wai, etc. are all represented. So why do the Criterion threads get all the love? Consider this a Meta-thread based on the notorious, Criterion: what's your definition thread.

[Mandalorian]

[Show spoiler]

[ultlife2013]

They produce silent movies right?

[Spicoli]

They look like they want to be competitive. I wish them luck.

If they have the money to secure a good title or two then they have a chance. Or if they get lucky with a few titles that slipped by.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by ultlife2013

They produce silent movies right?

They've released some great ones. But what I'm trying to approach is: Why is Criterion considered by many members here the banner of all things art house and classic cinema? Seldom are there fights in the name of Kino, Olive or Masters of Cinema.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by Spicoli

They look like they want to be competitive. I wish them luck.

If they have the money to secure a good title or two then they have a chance. Or if they get lucky with a few titles that slipped by.

They've secured and released plenty of great titles.

[macaca]

why don't they get the same love as criterion? lol. could be because the majority of their titles have forced subtitles, no restoration, limited extras, translated title screens for their silent film releases, etc. where as criterion does the complete opposite.

[Spicoli]

Originally Posted by macaca

why don't they get the same love as criterion? lol. could be because the majority of their titles have forced subtitles, no restoration, limited extras, translated title screens for their silent film releases, etc. where as criterion does the complete opposite.

Is this true or substantiated?

[AmrlKJaneway]

My DVD of Nosferatu is abysmal, with it's power point titles and MIDI-mash soundtrack. I'll definitely pick up that Blu one day...

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

So, Kino has quite an interesting library: Directors Andrei Tarkovsky, Sergei Eisenstein, Wong Kar Wai, etc. are all represented. So why do the Criterion threads get all the love? Consider this a Meta-thread based on the notorious, Criterion: what's your definition thread.

Well, that's just the point about the Criterion thread: No one's ever argued Kino's motives, or created any abstract fan-mythologized idea about its catalogs.
Kino started out as Russian film, spread to quality silents, and started branching out into some art-indie lines, but it's still 80% likely to be Russian films and silents.

Yes, we might have fans saying "I'm blind-buying Kino's next Buster Keaton film, whatever it is, just because their Metropolis was so good!"--But at least they know what they're getting and have some comparative frame of reference for the label, and don't see Kino as some sort of magic home-theater Keebler elves in a hollow tree that can go out in search of any old movie if they ask nicely.

[bhampton]

I have One, Fallen Angels.

I watched it,... Can't remember anything about it,... I think it made no sense.

[Scottie]

While only having seen a couple Kino films, I still prefer Criterion.

I think Criterion puts more work into their releases and has a better and more interesting selection. Kino does have its share of cool releases, but nothing that really stands out for me.

I like how Fritz Lang is a part of their collection, though.

[Sinthetic]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I have One, Fallen Angels.

I watched it,... Can't remember anything about it,... I think it made no sense.

I think that statement says more about you, than the film.

[AgentOrange]

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Is this true or substantiated?

Partially true.

They do have a few outstanding blu-ray releases though. Many of them are un-restored even for blu-ray . Kino clearly either has less money, or just doesn't have the same access to materials that Criterion has. The Buster Keaton stuff is still really good, and there have been a few other silent classics that are worth checking out. Most of these are in pretty good shape and the details still come out on blu-ray. But it would be interesting to see how good they could look if some money was poured into them. There was a 4K restoration of at least one Buster Keaton film (The General) - so it will be interesting if someone else releases that new restoration on blu-ray to see how much it blows away Kino's blu-ray.

There are some posts/articles somewhere on here that Kino has also lost a big chunk of it's "classic films" library to Cohen Media(?). So I have no idea what that means for their future.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by EricJ

Well, that's just the point about the Criterion thread: No one's ever argued Kino's motives, or created any abstract fan-mythologized idea about its catalogs.
Kino started out as Russian film, spread to quality silents, and started branching out into some art-indie lines, but it's still 80% likely to be Russian films and silents.

Yes, we might have fans saying "I'm blind-buying Kino's next Buster Keaton film, whatever it is, just because their Metropolis was so good!"--But at least they know what they're getting and have some comparative frame of reference for the label, and don't see Kino as some sort of magic home-theater Keebler elves in a hollow tree that can go out in search of any old movie if they ask nicely.

Sure, Kino has released fewer titles on blu ray, about half as many as Criterion, and many of those releases don't have as many extras as Criterion, but they are still steeply priced. $15 is a steal for most of them.

Furthermore, their library is just as eclectic as Criterion. Why aren't people on the Kino thread asking for reccomendations?

Look at a film like Scent of Green Papaya. If it was in the Criterion Collection, it would be in more collections and be talked About much more extensively. It deserves all this consideration.

[Abdrewes]

A comparison of Wong Kar Wai films on BluRay:
Criterion
Chungking Express (released Dec. 2008): 1543 Collections
In The Mood for Love (released October 2012): 669 Collections

Kino
Fallen Angels (released March 2010): 495 Collections
Happy Together (released June 2010): 357 Collections
Fallen Angels/Happy Together Double Feature (released September 2012): 22 Collections

The two Films released by Kino are every bit as good (and similar) as those released by Criterion, sure they have fewer extras, but they are more lucratively priced. Why does Kino have so little traction? Why wouldn't you own the two Kinos if you own both Criterions?

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by iScottie

While only having seen a couple Kino films, I still prefer Criterion.

I think Criterion puts more work into their releases and has a better and more interesting selection. Kino does have its share of cool releases, but nothing that really stands out for me.

I like how Fritz Lang is a part of their collection, though.

This whole post proves my point. If the films were released by CC, there would be more curiosity towards the films.

[SimBelm]

I think the Wong Kar-wai comparisons don't work too well as the Criterions are arguably his most well known films (along with 2046). I'd imagine more people have bought Kino's Metropolis than Criterion's Ministry of Fear. I buy less from Kino because I'm not that into such early American cinema, and sometimes there's a better UK release of the ones I do want.

[AgentOrange]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

This whole post proves my point. If the films were released by CC, there would be more curiosity towards the films.

Maybe,

But after checking out a good number of Kino releases on blu-ray and DVD, there is no comparison whatsoever to their overall quality. They are more wildly inconsistent than Criterion. So perhaps the different levels of interest are warrented?

Criterion surely had some mis-steps in the DVD days, but Kino has some absolutely HORRID quality releases, and even some of their blu-rays leave much to be desired. I know that some of it is "source related" and cannot be repaired, but I suspect that in alot of cases SOMETHING could have been done about it if there was just any budget whatsoever.

(and I'm not saying Criterion is faultless either, because they have a few poor blu-ray releases as well - but they aren't nearly as "all over the map" as Kino)

[HD Goofnut]

Overpriced classics for the most part. The only I own is The Complete Metropolis.