The misinformation by HD DVD thread...

[Proteus]

I have started this thread based on a suggestion by Richard that we put this information all in one place, so, here goes:

Over the past 1.5 years the HDDVD promotion group, Toshiba and others have been publishing misinformation, misleading claims and 'fudging' numbers and statistics to try and promote their format.

I believe this is an unethical marketing approach (being in the marketing business for over 15 years) and they should be called on it. The single best way to do this at this time seems to be to start a thread here outlining each and every bit of misinformation they have propagated and _a legitimate source_ that debunks it. If possible, try to include the dates they misinformed and any other information that indicates a time window.

Please keep this thread to listing the 'FUD' that was spoken and the link to the source debunking it. Discussion and commentary can be had in another thread. I want this thread to be as easy as possible for media folks, industry and others to find a quick easy reference showing all the fallacies HDDVD has used to try and deceive the public consumer. If you simply must discuss, start another thread and add a *HDDVD lies* after the title to indicate it is in response to this thread.

If I can find the time, I will try to keep a running list in this post of the things reported here. If someone else would like to do the cut/pasting, please feel free and I will just paste it in here (you can PM it to me if you need to).

Thank you.

The HDDVD lies and misinformation is listed below (I am putting them in quotes to easily separate each topic so don't freak out if it's not exactly what you stated please):

X-Box 360 and Toshiba are making a 360 with built in hd dvd
http://www.geek.com/microsoft-toshib...d-dvd/?rfp=dta

Toshiba slips up and spills the truth:
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/11571.cfm

Toshiba makes claim that Kmart is 'HDDVD Exclusive':
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/new...ticle_ID=11448

Kmart refutes the Toshiba claim:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...re_Purple/1137

51GB HDDVD 'May be ready'
http://www.allthingshidef.com/ME2/di...88ED28CC20D6D3

Six days later... Will it work? Still in testing?!
http://www.allthingshidef.com/ME2/di...5F8B8367819859

Paramount claims record sales of Transformers HDDVD (before the week even ended):
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/pr_pa...ers_week1.html

The truth comes out that they 'fudged' the numbers:
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.co...at-stupid-lie/
http://www.highdefdigest.com/tags/show/Paramount
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/new...ticle_ID=11439

The HDDVD group has consistently argued that the Picture Quality/Audio Quality of both formats is the same.

Here is a source that actually collected disc review data from all over the web to do a statistical analysis of the quality of each showing that Blu-ray did indeed have better Picture Quality:
http://www.dvdfile.com/index.php?opt...6326&Itemid=11

*Note: Would like some more sources for PQ, but also sources for AQ. Thank you.*

The HDDVD Promotions group as well as studios such as Universal and Paramount have consistently tried to allude to Spielberg films being available on the HDDVD format only to be forced to issue apologies. (I would like more sources for these)

This article makes reference to some of the misinformation and includes Spielberg's true stance as a Blu-ray only supporter (more sources here would help as well):
http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/ne...VD-plans.phtml

The BDA and several prominent PC manufacturers respond to refute many inaccurate claims (would like some direct sources for this 'FUD') by Microsoft and Intel concerning the Blu-ray format:
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Article-14858.html

[SDG]

X-Box 360 and Toshiba are making a 360 with built in hd dvd
http://www.geek.com/microsoft-toshib...d-dvd/?rfp=dta

No they are not
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/11617.cfm

[Elandyll]

Top of he head...

They have been called on the Transformers numbers (their pals Paramount did, but same boat ). Nikki Finkle made an article about it.
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.co...at-stupid-lie/

They routinely speak of Standalone sales and Attachment rates, without specifying what they use for their calculations. Once you dig into it, they do not include PS3 for Blu Ray standalone players, but they include the HD DVD add ons for Xbox360. For attachment rate, they then include the PS3 because it is reported that only xx% of the PS3 users actually watch movies on it.

Sony releases a study that about 30-33% of PS3 owners use their PS3 to watch movies.
Then Toshiba releases their own numbers, saying that only about 20% actually do that.
And -now- they say that 60% of PS3 users do not know their PS3 is a Blu Ray player also.

Wait .. who in their right mind who -knows- the PS3 is a Blu Ray player wouldn't use it for HD movies? Doesn't it make the number of movie watchers 40% then?

[SDG]

51GB hd dvd comming
http://www.allthingshidef.com/ME2/di...88ED28CC20D6D3

will it work
http://www.allthingshidef.com/ME2/di...5F8B8367819859

where is it now

[TauRus]

Man, just go to AVM$ - you will easily find fresh top-quality FUD there. Do we need to see it here?

[PS3Maniac]

Paramount claims 190k Transformers sold. Turns out it was only 90k. Whoops.

[plee]

Maybe sticky this thread...

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by TauRus

Man, just go to AVM$ - you will easily find fresh top-quality FUD there. Do we need to see it here?

Yes. Because the mainstream media is not going to sift through 1.5 years of forum blogs and posts to do 'research'. They need one resource where they can quickly identify all the misinformation.

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by PS3Maniac

Paramount claims 190k Transformers sold. Turns out it was only 90k. Whoops.

Link sources please.

That is the key here folks.

We need to make a definitive thread that shows through validated and trustworthy sources the misinformation, aka 'FUD', that has been spread by the HDDVD group specifically.

[ClaytonMG]

Well I don't like reading or talking about HD-DVD (I'd like to think that if you ignore it, it will dissapear), but here's one:

"Transformers will never be on Blu-Ray because of interactivity reasons". You can go on MichaelBay.com and read all the posts by Pittura and see his posts on the subject and also a few other FUD things by members. I've tried to get away from the whole format war and just focus on buying movies... but some how I still need to keep responding...

Also, if you go in DVDEmpire.com's high def blog you can read a bunch of FUD.

[Proteus]

This isn't so much about 'reading FUD' and the like... bloggers and forums folks can say whatever they want. What they say isn't 'official'.

What we need is a list of the 'official' things that have spewed forth from the mouths of the HDDVD group that have been proven false.

We have a few good _recent_ things now listed; however, we need to get _everything_ listed.

We need all the links to press releases and quotes/stories to ensure that this list is taken professionally and acknowledged as legitimate when media researching this topic sift through it.

[TauRus]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Yes. Because the mainstream media is not going to sift through 1.5 years of forum blogs and posts to do 'research'. They need one resource where they can quickly identify all the misinformation.

I guess I am still not sure why the media needs to do this? Are we preparing for an HD-DVD Nuremberg trial?
Anyway, you have to go to the source to get the best samples, and who qualifies better as the professional HD-DVD Fud-Meister other than the one the only .... Mr. A-man:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/searc...archid=7560998

[Rike255]

What about that article that was posted from NBC yesterday? The link is somewhere around here although I don't have time to find it. That's terrible mis-information...not sure if it'd count though.
EDIT: Oh I found it http://www.cnbc.com/id/21581845

I can't go into detail about the wrong statements as Idont' have time. Sorry. I'm sure you can find them yourselves. Also, don't forget about the K-Mart thing.

[corduroygt]

Spielberg movies out on HD DVD Universal - TWICE smacked down by Spielberg.

[marzetta7]

Back in 2005, there were several FUDtastic points made by Microsoft and why HP suddenly went neutral...

Trying to find the link

But then the BDA countered and set the record straight...so there are several points that were purposely deceitful here...

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Article-14858.html

Microsoft/Intel Announcement Cites Inaccuracies Regarding Blu-ray Disc Format
PALO ALTO, Calif. and AUSTIN, Texas, Sept. 29 /PRNewswire/ -- Worldwide computer leaders and Blu-ray Disc Association members, Dell, and Hewlett Packard, today addressed the inaccurate information cited by Microsoft and Intel regarding the Blu-ray Disc format.

"From a PC end-user perspective, Blu-ray is a superior format. It offers 67-150% more storage capacity, higher transfer rates, slim-line notebook compatibility, broadband connectivity and a proven interactive layer with BD- Java(TM)," said Maureen Weber, General Manager of Hewlett Packard's Personal Storage Business. "The technical merits and consumer benefits of Blu-ray Disc make it the ideal solution for HP's customers."

Virtually every computer company that has expressed a preference for a high definition disc format has chosen Blu-ray Disc as the superior format for computer platforms and applications. Top-tier computer brands supporting Blu- ray Disc include, among others, Dell, Hewlett Packard, Panasonic, Sony and LG.

"Every computer manufacturer in the BDA carefully reviewed both formats and ultimately chose Blu-ray as the superior solution for meeting customer demands and providing the best possible end-user experience," said Weber. "It is surprising that Tuesday's announcement is not aligned with that of the vast majority of the computer industry and is contrary to our consumer research."

Microsoft and Intel's announcement erroneously indicates that HD-DVD has an advantage in a number of areas. To set the record straight, here are the facts:

Capacity: Blu-ray Disc's capacity is 50GB. This will be available at launch for BD-ROM, BD-R, and BD-RE. This is 67% more than HD-DVD's 30GB ROM capacity and 150% more than its recordable storage capacity – a critical issue for computer users.

Managed copy: Managed Copy is not a function of the optical disc format, but a function of the content protection system. The AACS content protection system, which is used by both Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD, enables managed copy and network streaming functionality. It is not format specific.

Hybrid Disc: Blu-ray Disc was the first format to introduce a hybrid disc that could hold both high and standard definition versions of a movie on a single disc. The Blu-ray Hybrid Disc is the more elegant solution as it holds both versions of the film on the same side of the disc, which provides for easy labeling and greater ease of use for consumers.

Backward Compatibility: Blu-ray Disc players and recorders can and will support DVDs through the addition of red lasers in the hardware. In order to be backward compatible with DVD, HD-DVD must also include a red laser.

Interactivity: Blu-ray disc is built on BD-Java(TM), which leverages years of industry investment and experience in the set-top box, PC, and cell phone industries. BD-JavaTM provides a mature, robust platform for authoring and delivering unprecedented interactive capabilities to the user for movies, music, and games. BD-Java was selected over iHD, the developmental Microsoft technology used in HD-DVD. The BDA carefully compared both iHD and BD-J, and concluded that iHD didn't go far enough in providing a compelling feature set beyond DVD, while BD-J offered studios a much richer palette for providing a compelling interactive HD experience for consumers, particularly when a player is connected to a network.

"We are actively engaged with our customers who continue to tell us that features such as capacity, advanced interactivity, and industry wide support are of utmost importance when considering new optical solutions," said Kevin Kettler, Chief Technology Officer, Dell, Inc. "Based on this feedback and a comparison of the two formats, Dell has no doubt that Blu-ray Disc best meets the needs of computer users and provides the type of open industry standards needed to drive innovation and growth of the format across all platforms -- consumer electronic, personal computers and gaming consoles."

Feel free to add the couple of points above. We veterans have been trying to fight such FUD from the beginning!

[gearyt]

WOW.. sounds like another 60 minutes whoops....

[Trebar]

You might want to find the actual statement made by the companies and not second hand reporting. In nearly all of the articles with the so called statement they say that it is either rumor or they make the same points as the rebutal. Find the press releases and get em where it hurts.

A lot of this is misreporting or exageration anyway through not so reliable sources. What can a reporter do if you have to make a deadline?

[MacHaggis]

I have an idea.

Why don't we create a "Wall of Shame" post where we can identify all the "reporters" and other sources that are responsible for FUD and other misinformation.

That way people can identify all those individuals/organizations.

This can even be made into a separate web site.

Bogdan

[bazie]

well the kmart one i don't think was meant as a deliberate "lie" from toshiba. As far as I know they don't carry bluray standalones, only the ps3, and the comment was meant they they are going to only carry the HDDVD standalone, as well as the ps3. That is still the case today.

[Jim L]

And don't forget about

• HD DVD's superior stand-alone attach rates
• The various CE companies who were going to be coming out with an HD DUD player