Calling a boycott on Warner(effect) blu-ray movies - Blu-ray Forum

tron3 · 11-13-2007, 05:32 PM

Addendum: Let's wait until AFTER this Christmas season. Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot. I just jumped the gun a little. As another person said, my heart is in the right place, but the timing is poor. I needed to blow off steam. Please take the following with a grain of salt.

I know, I know. Controverstial topic with a catch-22. I have biten my tongue as not to hurt camp blu, but we have to say SOMETHING before it grows. For those who don't know, Warner takes HD DVD content and essentially converts it over to blu-ray, thus impacting overall quality of the movie.

We all know Warner is not giving up supporting blu-ray because it leads the way in sales revenue over HD-DVD. However, after buying titles like 300, A Christmas Story, and The Bi-Polar Express, I can hardly see the difference over watching DVD on my LCD TV. Sure, there is moderate improvement, but not the sharp brilliance we see in any properly transfered blu-ray disc. The bit rates on Warner BD tend to average exactly half of what we see on a true blu-ray transfer.

The WB takes our money and each time the bloody "Warner Effect" essentially gives us "HD-ray". I am cautious to call for a boycott because we don't want WB to drop us. On the other hand, we paid for blu-ray and we demand blu-ray quality!

I'd rather pay the extra money.

I was willing to compromise at first in hopes of wooing Warner to camp blu. But they are steadfastly remaining as neutral as chocolate from Switzerland, but the offerings aren't nearly as sweet.

They aren't an exclusive supporter like Paramount / Dreamworks and Universal. Why should we have to wait possibly YEARS in HOPES of seeing our favorite movies remastered in BD? Why should the artistic aspirations of the director meld into some stupid "half-bit" format? Many here do not own HD-DVD, but we have seen these offerings. We essentially own HD DVD trojan horse versions of blu-ray.

If the remaining studios go neutral, it will be a jaded win for blu-ray if they follow in the path of Warner. Essentially, HD DVD will live on in these bastardized blu-ray discs.

I say as lovers of movies and blu-ray we send them a strong chant, "No bits, no buy!" "No bits, no buy!" "No bits, no buy!"

Thank you for not rioting.

Amel · 11-13-2007, 05:34 PM

read my sig

Luis_A51 · 11-13-2007, 05:35 PM

What annoys me is that soo many people talk about new warners movies having amazing PQ (300, Troy for example) and then when I see it its nothing like Pirates or Crank in terms of PQ

That being said, ill buy them anyways since for the most part I buy my movies purely on the movie itself

Terjyn · 11-13-2007, 05:36 PM

Do you want Warner to go HD-DVD only?

mystiksuicide · 11-13-2007, 05:38 PM

I have the utmost respect for you and know you gave this careful consideration, and there is absolutely no doubt that all your statements are factual, but damn this can really backfire on us.

davidPS3 · 11-13-2007, 05:39 PM

You are very correct in your statement here. I wish I could back you on this. The bottom line in my eyes is that Warner is looking at sales numbers as any smart company would do, they have come out and said this is true.

So, with them also coming out and saying they are going to be watching 4th quarter sales, which is now, I cannot justify not supporting them at this point. We have much to gain if they support Blu, but we have much more to loose if they drop Blu,

Now is not the time for a boycott, we need to show our support. Sorry, just giving my 2 cents.

NutsAboutPS3 · 11-13-2007, 05:40 PM

You have to see the long game. Put up with it for now, buy Warner movies, DO NOT boycott Warner, and hope that this helps Blu-ray to win and Warner to go Blu-ray exclusive. Once that happens you will get the optimised Warner releases you want.

Boycotting them now will just make them more likely to stay neutral and carry on giving us HD ports, or worse still, go HD exclusive.

tron3 · 11-13-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terjyn

Do you want Warner to go HD-DVD only?

No. But if we buy this stuff anyways, we essentially are sending the message that HD DVD truly is good enough. Why should any of the studios keep trying after blu-ray wins the format war? Hell, in that case why not just slap the DVD version on blu-ray like Sony did with "The Fifth Element"?

Don't you want the value you paid for? Sure, I bought The Bi-Polar Express because it was only 20 bucks. I would have GLADLY paid 25 or more for the tru-blu version. This is an insult.

MacDaddyOJack · 11-13-2007, 05:41 PM

I think its probably a bad idea this early, however, I agree with you 100%. I'd be importing the Island if it had been made by anyone else. The fact that its a VC-1 encode and only Dolby Digital 5.1 makes it total crap!

quexos · 11-13-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystiksuicide

I have the utmost respect for you and know you gave this careful consideration, and there is absolutely no doubt that all your statements are factual, but damn this can really backfire on us.

Agreed, of all ailments, we must consider the bigger one. and losing Warner's support would be very dangerous. They have the biggest amount of movies of all studios, remember that !

Instead there should be polite letters sent to Warner to demand better transfers and I am sure in time it will be the case but right now there is a spreading HD cancer called HD-DVD and, I don't know about you guys but I don't want to spend an entire new generation with this barely boosted DVD hd-dvd thing.

Consider this: If Blu wins this war, Warner will make HD transfers from scratch and quality should improve then. Be patient and do the smart thing: support Warner now

tron3 · 11-13-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutsAboutPS3

You have to see the long game. Put up with it for now, buy Warner movies, DO NOT boycott Warner, and hope that this helps Blu-ray to win and Warner to go Blu-ray exclusive. Once that happens you will get the optimised Warner releases you want.

Boycotting them now will just make them more likely to stay neutral and carry on giving us HD ports, or worse still, go HD exclusive.

I hear you guys, I really do. This is why I bit my tongue for weeks. But dang, my last buy just upset me. Ok, so let's keep buying through the Christmas season, but even exclusive support is no guarantee they won't continue with the equipment they now have to create HD DVD. Unless that goes against some kind of contract stipulation.

GreenMotion · 11-13-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tron3

I hear you guys, I really do. This is why I bit my tongue for weeks. But dang, my last buy just upset me. Ok, so let's keep buying through the Christmas season, but even exclusive support is no guarantee they won't continue with the equipment they now have to create HD DVD. Unless that goes against some kind of contract stipulation.

I think this is something the BDA needs to address!

Joe Cain · 11-13-2007, 05:49 PM

Has this thread been done before?

The Post Office remains the best way to send this kind of message.

If you refuse to buy any WB BDs, it's a boycott; if you refuse to buy crappy WB BDs, it's discretion.

(My collection only contains 3 Warner releases so far. Corpse Bride could use lossless audio, but is otherwise quite satisfactory; Planet Earth is a revelation and 2001 is simply stunning.)

We're not likely to see Blu-centric WB releases until they abandon HD-DVD, and there's only one way to convince them to do that...

Was your last buy Polar Express? Were you unaware it was released on just a 15G HD-DVD?

UTVOL06 · 11-13-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystiksuicide

I have the utmost respect for you and know you gave this careful consideration, and there is absolutely no doubt that all your statements are factual, but damn this can really backfire on us.

I agree. You should preach this to the AVS forum. Let them boycott WB while we buy WB movies on BLU.

tron3 · 11-13-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMotion

I think this is something the BDA needs to address!

Exactly! If someone agrees to support blu-ray, they have to agree to certain quality standards. If anything goes, then a BMW dealer doesn't have to tell you if the car is new or a "certified pre-owned" BMW.

J6P · 11-13-2007, 05:50 PM

Your heart's in the right place, I know, but this would be a terrible move.

As soon as Warner drops HD DVD we will start seeing pure Blu-ray transfers, not before. It is unreasonable to expect them to do the encoding work twice on all or even most titles, with the profit margins being what they are in HD media. We're lucky they've refused Toshiba's checkbook thus far, quite frankly.

We need to show WB they have a strong future with Blu-ray, let the sales speak for themselves, and eventually we'll all get what we want.

Lt. Drebin · 11-13-2007, 05:52 PM

Look the same to me. Not a big enough difference for most people to give a f***. Why would I boycott them??

bkbluray · 11-13-2007, 05:52 PM

This stituation sucks for us. On one hand, if we support Warner enough by buying their movies, they might go Blu-ray exclusive. On the other hand, who wants to pay $25 for something of decent quality when you can have excellent quality (like a Disney Blu-ray) for the same price? This is why I haven't bought any non-exclusive titles yet. I know I'm not going to get the same quality.

I apply kind of the same logic to video games. Why buy Madden for PS3 when you could buy something tailored to the system? Just a thought.

cajmoyper · 11-13-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terjyn

Do you want Warner to go HD-DVD only?

Nobody's saying that. When Paramount was neutral, they were giving us movies with an AVC codec. Some of the Para movies looked really good. And I remember seeing that they were going to start giving both formats lossless tracks but then you know what happened. So either they could go BD only or just try harder. For crying out loud, Ocean's movies only have DD.

Xerious · 11-13-2007, 05:53 PM

hey man, do what you want, don't solicit our help if you want to screw over warner and the bluray camp at the same time.

11-13-2007, 05:32 PM	#1
tron3 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Aug 2004 Location:New Jersey Blu-ray reviews:3	Calling a boycott on Warner(effect) blu-ray movies Addendum: Let's wait until AFTER this Christmas season. Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot. I just jumped the gun a little. As another person said, my heart is in the right place, but the timing is poor. I needed to blow off steam. Please take the following with a grain of salt. I know, I know. Controverstial topic with a catch-22. I have biten my tongue as not to hurt camp blu, but we have to say SOMETHING before it grows. For those who don't know, Warner takes HD DVD content and essentially converts it over to blu-ray, thus impacting overall quality of the movie. We all know Warner is not giving up supporting blu-ray because it leads the way in sales revenue over HD-DVD. However, after buying titles like 300, A Christmas Story, and The Bi-Polar Express, I can hardly see the difference over watching DVD on my LCD TV. Sure, there is moderate improvement, but not the sharp brilliance we see in any properly transfered blu-ray disc. The bit rates on Warner BD tend to average exactly half of what we see on a true blu-ray transfer. The WB takes our money and each time the bloody "Warner Effect" essentially gives us "HD-ray". I am cautious to call for a boycott because we don't want WB to drop us. On the other hand, we paid for blu-ray and we demand blu-ray quality! I'd rather pay the extra money. I was willing to compromise at first in hopes of wooing Warner to camp blu. But they are steadfastly remaining as neutral as chocolate from Switzerland, but the offerings aren't nearly as sweet. They aren't an exclusive supporter like Paramount / Dreamworks and Universal. Why should we have to wait possibly YEARS in HOPES of seeing our favorite movies remastered in BD? Why should the artistic aspirations of the director meld into some stupid "half-bit" format? Many here do not own HD-DVD, but we have seen these offerings. We essentially own HD DVD trojan horse versions of blu-ray. If the remaining studios go neutral, it will be a jaded win for blu-ray if they follow in the path of Warner. Essentially, HD DVD will live on in these bastardized blu-ray discs. I say as lovers of movies and blu-ray we send them a strong chant, "No bits, no buy!" "No bits, no buy!" "No bits, no buy!" Thank you for not rioting. Last edited by tron3; 11-13-2007 at 06:52 PM.

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11-13-2007, 05:34 PM	#2
Amel Special Member Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Clearwater FL Blu-ray collection:91 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:2	read my sig

11-13-2007, 05:35 PM	#3
Luis_A51 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Calgary, AB Blu-ray reviews:4	What annoys me is that soo many people talk about new warners movies having amazing PQ (300, Troy for example) and then when I see it its nothing like Pirates or Crank in terms of PQ That being said, ill buy them anyways since for the most part I buy my movies purely on the movie itself

11-13-2007, 05:36 PM	#4
Terjyn Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jul 2007 Blu-ray collection:122	Do you want Warner to go HD-DVD only?

11-13-2007, 05:38 PM	#5
mystiksuicide Blu-ray Guru Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Miami Blu-ray collection:305 Blu-ray reviews:27	I have the utmost respect for you and know you gave this careful consideration, and there is absolutely no doubt that all your statements are factual, but damn this can really backfire on us.

11-13-2007, 05:39 PM	#6
davidPS3 Special Member Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Seattle	You are very correct in your statement here. I wish I could back you on this. The bottom line in my eyes is that Warner is looking at sales numbers as any smart company would do, they have come out and said this is true. So, with them also coming out and saying they are going to be watching 4th quarter sales, which is now, I cannot justify not supporting them at this point. We have much to gain if they support Blu, but we have much more to loose if they drop Blu, Now is not the time for a boycott, we need to show our support. Sorry, just giving my 2 cents.

11-13-2007, 05:40 PM	#7
NutsAboutPS3 Expert Member Member since:Apr 2007 Location:UK Blu-ray reviews:1	You have to see the long game. Put up with it for now, buy Warner movies, DO NOT boycott Warner, and hope that this helps Blu-ray to win and Warner to go Blu-ray exclusive. Once that happens you will get the optimised Warner releases you want. Boycotting them now will just make them more likely to stay neutral and carry on giving us HD ports, or worse still, go HD exclusive.

11-13-2007, 05:41 PM	#9
MacDaddyOJack Blu-ray Guru Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Richmond, VA PSNetwork: MacDaddyOJack Trophy Level: 12(4%) Home Theater Gallery:12 Blu-ray collection:71 Blu-ray reviews:23 Trading Score:4	I think its probably a bad idea this early, however, I agree with you 100%. I'd be importing the Island if it had been made by anyone else. The fact that its a VC-1 encode and only Dolby Digital 5.1 makes it total crap!

11-13-2007, 05:49 PM	#13
Joe Cain Power Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:The Tragic City Blu-ray collection:79	Has this thread been done before? The Post Office remains the best way to send this kind of message. If you refuse to buy any WB BDs, it's a boycott; if you refuse to buy crappy WB BDs, it's discretion. (My collection only contains 3 Warner releases so far. Corpse Bride could use lossless audio, but is otherwise quite satisfactory; Planet Earth is a revelation and 2001 is simply stunning.) We're not likely to see Blu-centric WB releases until they abandon HD-DVD, and there's only one way to convince them to do that... Was your last buy Polar Express? Were you unaware it was released on just a 15G HD-DVD?

11-13-2007, 05:50 PM	#16
J6P Expert Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Aug 2007 Home Theater Gallery:117 Blu-ray collection:270	Your heart's in the right place, I know, but this would be a terrible move. As soon as Warner drops HD DVD we will start seeing pure Blu-ray transfers, not before. It is unreasonable to expect them to do the encoding work twice on all or even most titles, with the profit margins being what they are in HD media. We're lucky they've refused Toshiba's checkbook thus far, quite frankly. We need to show WB they have a strong future with Blu-ray, let the sales speak for themselves, and eventually we'll all get what we want.

11-13-2007, 05:52 PM	#17
Lt. Drebin Junior Member Member since:Aug 2007	Look the same to me. Not a big enough difference for most people to give a f***. Why would I boycott them??

11-13-2007, 05:52 PM	#18
bkbluray Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jun 2007 Location:MN Home Theater Gallery:57 Blu-ray collection:185 Blu-ray reviews:25	This stituation sucks for us. On one hand, if we support Warner enough by buying their movies, they might go Blu-ray exclusive. On the other hand, who wants to pay $25 for something of decent quality when you can have excellent quality (like a Disney Blu-ray) for the same price? This is why I haven't bought any non-exclusive titles yet. I know I'm not going to get the same quality. I apply kind of the same logic to video games. Why buy Madden for PS3 when you could buy something tailored to the system? Just a thought.

11-13-2007, 05:53 PM	#20
Xerious Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:Washington, DC Blu-ray collection:238 Blu-ray reviews:4	hey man, do what you want, don't solicit our help if you want to screw over warner and the bluray camp at the same time.

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