Have most studios abandoned 7.1 sound?

[Bruno X]

I have my home theater set up for 7.1 surround sound, but I'm disappointed that it seems that studios are abandoning releasing blu-rays with this sound option.

Is this info correct that so far in 2014 only 12 films have been release with 7.1 sound on blu-ray?



What are your thoughts it?

[kenoh]

Originally Posted by Bruno X

I have my home theater set up for 7.1 surround sound, but I'm disappointed that it seems that studios are abandoning releasing blu-rays with this sound option.

Is this info correct that so far in 2014 only 12 films have been release with 7.1 sound on blu-ray?



What are your thoughts it?

Hopefully this changes with the advent of Dolby Atmos? So expect 7.1.4 or even 9.1.2 to be become standard with numerous titles supporting Atmos in 2015.

2015 will be a big year for 7.1+ surround!

[erlinmeyer]

looks like more for the year, including Noah and Twin Peaks next week...you are not showing Hunger Games: Catching Fire, Thor etc.....here is a list ==> https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/searc...&action=search

[timcat4843]

Who cares?
7.1 surround is a big zero in my book.
I can't hearl any difference between 5.1 and 7.1.

[erlinmeyer]

Originally Posted by timcat4843

Who cares?
7.1 surround is a big zero in my book.
I can't hearl any difference between 5.1 and 7.1.

it all comes out the same sound bar

[ZoetMB]

Theatrically, there are more 7.1 films being released than every before. Some years back, it was mainly used only for animated films. It stands to reason that most, if not all of these will be released in 7.1 on BD (if they haven't been already) since there's very little, if any work that needs to be done to the audio for BD release.

And almost every Atmos film can be released in 7.1, either because it was mixed in 5.1 or 7.1 first, then the Atmos objects were added or because it was mixed directly in Atmos and then automatically down mixed to 7.1 (like "Gravity").

There may be others, but from August 2013 to December 2014, I have the following films that were released in 7.1 theatrically (Unfortunately, unless they're buried somewhere, Dolby has removed the 7.1 movie listing from their website - they're now only listing Atmos films, so the list is almost certainly incomplete):

Released theatrically in 7.1:
Elysium
Percy Jackson: See of Monsters
Insidious: Chapter 2
Lost Place
Gravity
Ender's Game
Thor: The Dark World
The Hunger Games: Catching Fire
Frozen
I, Frankenstein
Transformers: Age of Extinction

In addition, any of these Dolby Atmos films either were or could easily be released in 7.1 on Blu:
Planes
The Grandmaster
Inferno 3D
Metallica: Through the Never
The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
The Secret Life of Walter Mitty
The Monkey King
300: The Rise of an Empire
Mr. Peabody & Sherman
Noah
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Rio 2
Transcendence
Iceman 3D
The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Farewell to My Concubine
Godzilla
X-Men: Days of Future Past
Maleficent
Open Windows
Enchanted Kingdom
Edge of Tomorrow
How To Train Your Dragon 2
Jersey Boys
Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
Guardians of the Galaxy
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
The Expendables 3
The Hobbit: The Battle for the Five Armies

Also, the Barco 11.1 films could probably be released in 7.1 as well.

[kurtlingle]

Wow.

Thanks for that info.
I can hear the difference between 5.1 and 7.1 and ran 7.1 for a while at my old house.

Now, in my new home, I'm building an HT in the basement, and will use the Polk FXi A6 (bipole) surrounds for the sides and Polk monitor 30's for the rears. I can't wait to get it all done, and hear many movies in 7.1.

This list is great!

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Theatrically, there are more 7.1 films being released than every before. Some years back, it was mainly used only for animated films. It stands to reason that most, if not all of these will be released in 7.1 on BD (if they haven't been already) since there's very little, if any work that needs to be done to the audio for BD release.

And almost every Atmos film can be released in 7.1, either because it was mixed in 5.1 or 7.1 first, then the Atmos objects were added or because it was mixed directly in Atmos and then automatically down mixed to 7.1 (like "Gravity").

There may be others, but from August 2013 to December 2014, I have the following films that were released in 7.1 theatrically (Unfortunately, unless they're buried somewhere, Dolby has removed the 7.1 movie listing from their website - they're now only listing Atmos films, so the list is almost certainly incomplete):

Released theatrically in 7.1:
Elysium
Percy Jackson: See of Monsters
Insidious: Chapter 2
Lost Place
Gravity
Ender's Game
Thor: The Dark World
The Hunger Games: Catching Fire
Frozen
I, Frankenstein
Transformers: Age of Extinction

In addition, any of these Dolby Atmos films either were or could easily be released in 7.1 on Blu:
Planes
The Grandmaster
Inferno 3D
Metallica: Through the Never
The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
The Secret Life of Walter Mitty
The Monkey King
300: The Rise of an Empire
Mr. Peabody & Sherman
Noah
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Rio 2
Transcendence
Iceman 3D
The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Farewell to My Concubine
Godzilla
X-Men: Days of Future Past
Maleficent
Open Windows
Enchanted Kingdom
Edge of Tomorrow
How To Train Your Dragon 2
Jersey Boys
Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
Guardians of the Galaxy
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
The Expendables 3
The Hobbit: The Battle for the Five Armies

Also, the Barco 11.1 films could probably be released in 7.1 as well.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Theatrically, there are more 7.1 films being released than every before. Some years back, it was mainly used only for animated films. It stands to reason that most, if not all of these will be released in 7.1 on BD (if they haven't been already) since there's very little, if any work that needs to be done to the audio for BD release.

And almost every Atmos film can be released in 7.1, either because it was mixed in 5.1 or 7.1 first, then the Atmos objects were added or because it was mixed directly in Atmos and then automatically down mixed to 7.1 (like "Gravity").

There may be others, but from August 2013 to December 2014, I have the following films that were released in 7.1 theatrically (Unfortunately, unless they're buried somewhere, Dolby has removed the 7.1 movie listing from their website - they're now only listing Atmos films, so the list is almost certainly incomplete):

Released theatrically in 7.1:
Elysium
Percy Jackson: See of Monsters
Insidious: Chapter 2
Lost Place
Gravity
Ender's Game
Thor: The Dark World
The Hunger Games: Catching Fire
Frozen
I, Frankenstein
Transformers: Age of Extinction

In addition, any of these Dolby Atmos films either were or could easily be released in 7.1 on Blu:
Planes
The Grandmaster
Inferno 3D
Metallica: Through the Never
The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
The Secret Life of Walter Mitty
The Monkey King
300: The Rise of an Empire
Mr. Peabody & Sherman
Noah
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Rio 2
Transcendence
Iceman 3D
The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Farewell to My Concubine
Godzilla
X-Men: Days of Future Past
Maleficent
Open Windows
Enchanted Kingdom
Edge of Tomorrow
How To Train Your Dragon 2
Jersey Boys
Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
Guardians of the Galaxy
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
The Expendables 3
The Hobbit: The Battle for the Five Armies

Also, the Barco 11.1 films could probably be released in 7.1 as well.

not true - 11.1 - doesn't have the two rear center channels that 7.1 does.

also Jersey Boys core mix was 5.1 as well as Spider-Man 2 (2014) and Insidious: Chapter 2

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by timcat4843

Who cares?
7.1 surround is a big zero in my book.
I can't hearl any difference between 5.1 and 7.1.

Most of the 7.1 mixes are pretty bad.

[kenoh]

I actually liked Barco's Idea of having a 11.1 bed more then Atmos's current ceiling speakers for the home!

I understand Atmos can have more speakers then simply heights but so far manufactures are not pushing for it!


My Ideal 11.1.4 system for the home would be L,C,R,SR,SL,RR,LR and heights added to the original 7.1 setup and then 4 ceiling speakers added to that.

Basically like a beefed up DTS Neo: X!

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Also, the Barco 11.1 films could probably be released in 7.1 as well.

Not true. Auro 11.1 is basically 5.1, with height surrounds for each satellite channel. And matrixed encoded. So no, you cannot replicate the usual standard 7.1 from Auro 11.1

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by kenoh

I actually liked Barco's Idea of having a 11.1 bed more then Atmos's current ceiling speakers for the home!

I understand Atmos can have more speakers then simply heights but so far manufactures are not pushing for it!


My Ideal 11.1.4 system for the home would be L,C,R,SR,SL,RR,LR and heights added to the original 7.1 setup and then 4 ceiling speakers added to that.

Basically like a beefed up DTS Neo: X!

Auro 11.1 is crap. If DTS: NeoX was a real and solid format, I'd pick that any day over Auro 11.1
In fact, the could have used NeoX to encode some of the IMAX enhanced soundtracks with the height information. But too bad, DTS doesn't seem interested in truly pushing this format.

[benji888578]

Originally Posted by Bruno X

I have my home theater set up for 7.1 surround sound, but I'm disappointed that it seems that studios are abandoning releasing blu-rays with this sound option.

Is this info correct that so far in 2014 only 12 films have been release with 7.1 sound on blu-ray?



What are your thoughts it?

That source seems to be slow to update. In taking up Zoet MB's list, I found 14 of those titles listed here (blu-ray.com) as having or being released with 7.1, while 6 are only 5.1, (1 is 2.0?-I may have the wrong movie).

On the second section of movies listed as coming to Atmos, I am wondering, now that Dolby and HT manufacturers have announced Atmos home theater & equipment, if some of the movies coming to theaters in Dolby Atmos will be released on blu with a Dolby True HD 7.1 backwards-compatible Atmos track?

Released theatrically in 7.1:
Elysium 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Elysium-Blu-ray/69379/

Percy Jackson: See of Monsters 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Percy...Blu-ray/77710/

Insidious: Chapter 2 5.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Insid...Blu-ray/79068/

Lost Place (can’t find)

Gravity 5.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Gravi...Blu-ray/82748/

Ender's Game 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Ender...Blu-ray/79013/

Thor: The Dark World 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Thor-...Blu-ray/92703/

The Hunger Games: Catching Fire 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-H...Blu-ray/67923/

Frozen 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Frozen-Blu-ray/56784/

I, Frankenstein 5.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/I-Fra...Blu-ray/78975/

Transformers: Age of Extinction (TBA) (the last Transformers movie was dolby true hd 7.1, so expecting at least this, if not atmos)

In addition, any of these Dolby Atmos films either were or could easily be released in 7.1 on Blu:
Planes 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Planes-3D-Blu-ray/81254/

The Grandmaster 5.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-G...Blu-ray/79307/

Inferno 3D (not yet listed)

Metallica: Through the Never 5.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Metal...Blu-ray/86363/

The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-H...Blu-ray/81583/

The Secret Life of Walter Mitty 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-S...Blu-ray/79007/

The Monkey King (can’t find)

300: The Rise of an Empire 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/300-R...Blu-ray/70714/

Mr. Peabody & Sherman (TBA)

Noah 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Noah-Blu-ray/77903/

Captain America: The Winter Soldier 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Capta...Blu-ray/50851/

Rio 2 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Rio-2-3D-Blu-ray/102856/

Transcendence 5.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Trans...Blu-ray/79102/

Iceman 3D (not yet listed)

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 5.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-A...Blu-ray/63970/

Farewell to My Concubine 2.0 ?: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Farew...Blu-ray/90151/

Godzilla 7.1 https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Godzi...Blu-ray/78717/

X-Men: Days of Future Past (TBA)

Maleficent (TBA)

Open Windows (not yet listed)

Enchanted Kingdom (not yet listed)

Edge of Tomorrow (TBA)

How To Train Your Dragon 2 (TBA)

Jersey Boys (TBA)

Dawn of the Planet of the Apes (TBA)

Guardians of the Galaxy (TBA)

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (TBA)

The Expendables 3 (TBA)

The Hobbit: The Battle for the Five Armies (not yet listed)

[Dubstar]

TRANSCENDENCE's Theatrical DCP's were both 5.1 and 7.1

by the way this the second bluray from Warner Home Video - the other being GRAVITY - where the core 7.1 mix has been dropped.

[BozQ]

I wonder if Warner Bros deliberately dropped 7.1 to 5.1 in order to re-release these same titles with Dolby Atmos in the future.

[blonde_devil]

Maybe it has to do with aiming for the home theatre market. I know the theatre here has 7.1 but my home theatre is 5.1 as I think a lot of people have. They rush the movies through to get them on blu-ray, maybe they are just putting 5.1 to make it simple. I know most systems will dumb down the 7.1 to 5.1 in most cases but you can't always rely on that. Maybe they just feel it is easier to go 5.1 until people get up to speed. Or maybe they are just holding off on the 7.1 for the next releases like the 4K discs.

[benji888578]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

TRANSCENDENCE's Theatrical DCP's were both 5.1 and 7.1

by the way this the second bluray from Warner Home Video - the other being GRAVITY - where the core 7.1 mix has been dropped.

These movies were both in IMAX, while IMAX may not have the most channels, it does have greater dynamic range in it's sound systems, perhaps they have a separate mix for IMAX...if so, then, perhaps they used the mix for IMAX for these blu-rays?

OR, Warner is cutting production costs, it's easier/cheaper to make the necessary lossy 5.1 track for BD/DVD if they have only 5.1 channels to start with, instead of making a 7.1 lossless track, then having to remix for lossy 5.1 tracks for BD/DVD?

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

Maybe it has to do with aiming for the home theatre market. I know the theatre here has 7.1 but my home theatre is 5.1 as I think a lot of people have. They rush the movies through to get them on blu-ray, maybe they are just putting 5.1 to make it simple. I know most systems will dumb down the 7.1 to 5.1 in most cases but you can't always rely on that. Maybe they just feel it is easier to go 5.1 until people get up to speed. Or maybe they are just holding off on the 7.1 for the next releases like the 4K discs.

If they're really rushing to get the Blu-ray out of the door, then the more they should just stick in the 7.1 soundtrack! Because it takes far less work to put it in there than to remix or downmix the track to 5.1!

Dolby and DTS' downmixing algorithm for 7.1 to 5.1 is perfectly fine. Just as any Blu-ray player is perfectly capable for outputting video from 1080p to 720p or 480i.

This logic is as absurd as saying "Hey! Let's all release our Blu-rays in 720p until everyone has a 1080p display by next year"



No. I certainly don't accept that. If there's a 7.1 mix in cinemas, then there's something else at play here. Something coy and we're just not seeing the big picture yet.

Originally Posted by benji888578

These movies were both in IMAX, while IMAX may not have the most channels, it does have greater dynamic range in it's sound systems, perhaps they have a separate mix for IMAX...if so, then, perhaps they used the mix for IMAX for these blu-rays?

OR, Warner is cutting production costs, it's easier/cheaper to make the necessary lossy 5.1 track for BD/DVD if they have only 5.1 channels to start with, instead of making a 7.1 lossless track, then having to remix for lossy 5.1 tracks for BD/DVD?

It's true that IMAX requires a different sound mix from regular cinemas, but from what I understand about IMAX, they don't actually use a 5.1 system. It looks more like 6.0 speakers.

Left, Center, Right, Surround Left, Surround Right and Top Center. And one passive (not active) subwoofer. The top center is required to create the 'Phantom Imaging' that IMAX likes to boast about its positional audio. Yes it's true that IMAX uses full range speakers for all channels and one passive subwoofer.

With that said, no, it's very unlikely the IMAX mix is used for Blu-ray. It's not suitable for home theatre systems.

And like I said earlier, there's something happening behind the scenes that's making the studios withholding the 7.1 soundtrack. If production cost is truly a concern, then they'd not screw around with a perfectly functional 7.1 cinema mix, encoded it in 7.1 DTS-HD or TrueHD and author the Blu-ray from there. This takes the least amount of work from cinema to home.

[benji888578]

Originally Posted by BozQ

... from what I understand about IMAX, they don't actually use a 5.1 system. It looks more like 6.0 speakers.

Left, Center, Right, Surround Left, Surround Right and Top Center. And one passive (not active) subwoofer. The top center is required to create the 'Phantom Imaging' that IMAX likes to boast about its positional audio. Yes it's true that IMAX uses full range speakers for all channels and one passive subwoofer.

With that said, no, it's very unlikely the IMAX mix is used for Blu-ray. It's not suitable for home theatre systems.

And like I said earlier, there's something happening behind the scenes that's making the studios withholding the 7.1 soundtrack. If production cost is truly a concern, then they'd not screw around with a perfectly functional 7.1 cinema mix, encoded it in 7.1 DTS-HD or TrueHD and author the Blu-ray from there. This takes the least amount of work from cinema to home.

yeah, you're right, I forgot about that top center channel for IMAX.

The thing about your last paragraph...I'm not sure that the 7.1 mix for the theaters is just taken as is and put on blu-ray masters. I think theaters have the full LPCM, while True HD and DTS-HD MA on blu-rays are both lossless compressions...you don't see these logos at the end of a movie's credits, you see "DTS" and "Dolby Digital" and maybe also "SDDS" (Sony's), but there is no "True HD" or "Master Audio" designation because these are home theater codecs...they don't just take that audio mix and put it into blu-ray master, it has to be processed first. Yes, True HD & MA are lossless, but they are still compressed, it's just that they are compressed in such a way as to not lose any dynamic range. So, while it's true they could just give us the 7.1 mix, for whatever reason, they are down mixing to 5.1 while they process the audio for the blu-ray masters.

It would be cool to get behind the scenes of what it takes to bring a film to BD for home theater. Maybe then we might see what their reason might be for doing this.

I'm not sure how many other movies they have done this with, but, I was just watching (again) Narnia, Voyage of the Dawn Treader (2011), and looking it up, it was also 7.1 in theaters, but 5.1 on blu. So, it's not limited to WB nor only a very recent thing.

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by benji888578

yeah, you're right, I forgot about that top center channel for IMAX.

The thing about your last paragraph...I'm not sure that the 7.1 mix for the theaters is just taken as is and put on blu-ray masters. I think theaters have the full LPCM, while True HD and DTS-HD MA on blu-rays are both lossless compressions...you don't see these logos at the end of a movie's credits, you see "DTS" and "Dolby Digital" and maybe also "SDDS" (Sony's), but there is no "True HD" or "Master Audio" designation because these are home theater codecs...they don't just take that audio mix and put it into blu-ray master, it has to be processed first. Yes, True HD & MA are lossless, but they are still compressed, it's just that they are compressed in such a way as to not lose any dynamic range. So, while it's true they could just give us the 7.1 mix, for whatever reason, they are down mixing to 5.1 while they process the audio for the blu-ray masters.

It would be cool to get behind the scenes of what it takes to bring a film to BD for home theater. Maybe then we might see what their reason might be for doing this.

I'm not sure how many other movies they have done this with, but, I was just watching (again) Narnia, Voyage of the Dawn Treader (2011), and looking it up, it was also 7.1 in theaters, but 5.1 on blu. So, it's not limited to WB nor only a very recent thing.

The DCPs contain a LPCM 7.1 soundtrack. It is then up to individual cinema operators to use either a Dolby or Datasat (formally DTS) processors to route the soundtrack to their speakers. The sound designers don't actually encode their soundtrack in Dolby or DTS/datasat for cinemas. In the past, with 35mm film projection, yes. There is Dolby, DTS and SDDS. Digital, no.

So the LPCM 7.1 is the perfectly functional soundtrack I was referring to and all the studios have to do is to take that encode it in either Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD and author it on Blu-ray, for the least amount of work.
To even down mix 7.1 to 5.1 takes an extra amount of time than necessary. We're eight years into the Blu-ray format. There's no reason not to release 7.1 soundtracks anymore.