Eagle’s Anand Blu-ray vs DEI upscaled DVD

[rajkapoor]

I have Eagle’s Anand and Deewar BRs. I was thinking of getting their others titles too. As I’m ripping my DEIs DVDs to a hard drive these days and looking at my list of DEIs titles, I suddenly realized that all the BRs Eagle has released so far or is going to release in near future are DEIs titles. These include Anand, Deewar, Golmaal, Bawarchi, Khoobsurat, Don and even Gupt. Then I decided to compare BR and DVD of Anand . I played both of them through my Oppo 103D. I found the BR slightly better than the DVD on my 132” screen. Eagle must have used a professional scaler. Here are the shots I took with my camera at the lowest resolution.

Anand_BR.jpg

Anand_DVD.jpg

Now I’m thinking that even Yash Raj probably did the same thing. That’s why their Kabhi Kabhi and Silsala were not good.

I’m so glad that I have most of DEI and Yash Raj DVDs. How much better quality one can expect from BR of an older Indian movie?

[Hindustani]

I heard complaints with ANAND and CHUPKE CHUPKE blurays.

I wonder if DEEWAAR blurays can be compared to DEEWAAR DEI dvd.

I thought DEEWAAR bluray was solid good PQ wise.

BAWARCHI bluray was above ave PQ wise and better than CHUPKE CHUPE bluray.

[prepress]

BR scene is cropped or is this because of zoom "scene difference of few seconds"?

[rajkapoor]

Hindustani,

I'll do Dewaar in a couple of days.

prepress,

BR is not cropped. Like you said, it's because of scene difference of a few seconds. Next time, I'll try to show the exact same scene.

[HDDCS]

So are you trying to say that these titles have been sourced from their DEi editions, and then been cleaned up, color corrected, and then upscaled?

[ravenus]

In screenshots of that resolution it becomes difficult to distinguish the quality of blu-ray and DVD. A comparison is only relevant with actual screengrabs. I have seen Deewaar and while it is not a Arrow/Criterion class release, I feel quite sure that it's not an upscale job.

[rajkapoor]

HDDCS,

Yes, I suspect that Eagle is using DEI DVDs as their source for BRs. I can’t see any company spending resources and time on bringing out a proper BR for an old India movie. There in just no market for it. All the BRs released so far for movies before 1990 have been of poor quality including Mr. India, Silsala and Kabhi Kabhi. I think all of these were upscaled versions of their own DVDs. I don’t blame them though. In a country where a CM watches a new movie, still running in theaters by downloading it from the internet, who is going to buy a BR for an old movie.

ravenus,

I’ll be comparing Deewaar soon. I can’t take high resolution shots though as the files become too big.

[Hindustani]

raj kapoor,

thanks in advance for DEEWAAR comparisons.

I dont think DEEWAAR is an upscale job at all. It is clearly remastered and restored and color corrected. I've never seen DEI DVD btw so I cannot be entirely sure.

[benhoppel]

Silsila is no upscale. Bawarchi is no upscale.

[rajkapoor]

I was able to compare Deewaar this morning. It’s the same story again. BR is slightly better than the DVD. Then I decided to compare subtitles for the two. Both have the exact same subtitles. Anand’s subtitles turned out to be same too. I wish DEI had been as honest in their dealings as they were in their work. We would have gotten a lot more DVDs with excellent picture and sound.

By the way, Yash Raj BRs Chandni and Darr were DEI titles too.

[ravenus]

^While it's very much possible that the HD masters originally prepared by DEI for their DVD's were used as a source to encode the blu-rays, that does not make the BD's upscales. That term is applied if an SD resolution source is passed through some automated processing to get an HD resolution. I have seen upscales (like the disappointing blu-ray release of Riki-Oh) and I can confidently say that Deewaar is not an upscale.

[benhoppel]

Any evidence DEI ever made HD masters for their DVDs?

[prepress]

Even I doubt about Chandni, Darr upscaled. I can accept if the same master used to prepare DEI dvds and other BDs. BD detail is much better. Even the audio is re-mixed in YRF studios for their mostly old titles like Darr, Chandni, DDLJ etc.

[rajkapoor]

DEI made these DVDs mostly between 1998 and 2002. By 2004, then known as BEI, they were bankrupt. There were no HDs then. To make a proper BR of these movies, one needs to buy the rights and then remaster the negatives/film to at least 2K resolution. Then process the file, add menus, subtitles etc. All this incurs a huge cost. You need a good market to make any profits. If there was a market, Yash Raj and Eros would have done it as they did it for DVDs.
I just added Chandni and Darr as I noticed those were DEI’s DVDs. Yash Raj probably re-mastered them as those were their movies. Just for my curiosity, I’m going to compare those too. Yash Raj cuts corners too. For any non Yash Raj movie, they just digitized the film without fixing anything. Waqt (B.R. Chopra) had audio dropouts; Sangam had missing scenes; while most of the black and white movies had speckles, lines and flashes. Even their own DDLJ’s video is of variable quality and their latest Daawat-e-Ishq has low bits rate and dull colors.
I just found it amazing that all the old movies available in HD now were once done by DEI about 14 years ago. Yesterday I compared their Hum Aapke Hain Kaun with Eros so called anamorphic version. Eros looks shit in comparison to DEI.
I think, If someone doesn’t have a DEI version, then he should get the BR. It’s still better than the DVD.

[Hindustani]

Raj kapoor

Your observations are interesting. You seem to have lots of valid points and market feasibility or just cutting corners are major factors. I remember YRF dvds having notice on back for "nostalgic factor" for having scratches and faded colors.

On the contrary, I am very pleased with DARR bluray. The PQ AQ is just about perfect.

A reason why I am looking forward to UHD 4K tech is it forces bollywood to adapt 1080p. Only resolution 4K tech will upscale. This will make 720p iTunes stuff garbage. Streaming is poor with anything Full HD. Once 4k blurays in market. It will make 1080p bluray much cheaper and affordable.

[rajkapoor]

Hindustani
You seem to be very optimistic. I’m not. I’ll believe it when I see it. There is a reason for it. Indian system is different from American system. In Hollywood studios own the movies while in India individuals own them. Storage of old movies is a big issue for both. Hollywood did a much better job. In India when a producer dies, storage and even rights becomes a big issue. For a good BR, one needs preferably original negatives or at least some clean films. Therefore, restoration is the biggest problem for old Indian movies. If you have Roman Holiday on DVD or BR, check out the video on its restoration. It’s also available on YouTube. This is an extreme example of restoration process for Hollywood, but would be normal for Indian movies. The first Indian BR came out in 2007. 7 years have passed and we still don’t have a single BR from 50s or 60s. Nobody is going to spend time and money to do it if there is no market. When a properly restored and one of the most popular movies like Sholay fails on the box office and then gets no release on BR or DVD for a year, proves my point.
Darr is a good BR and if you happy with it that’s all what counts.
It will be a very long time before 4K becomes common. Every Indian movie is still released on a VCD along with its DVD while some get a BR. Many people are happy with streaming movies. It’s the cost and convenience of streaming which over rides the quality issue.
We are collectors of nostalgia and are in minority. Most people just watch it once and forget about it. Let us hope for the best.

[rishi]

Why not just drop a note to Shemaroo and see what they have to say?

[HDDCS]

Originally Posted by rajkapoor

Yash Raj cuts corners too. For any non Yash Raj movie, they just digitized the film without fixing anything. Waqt (B.R. Chopra) had audio dropouts; Sangam had missing scenes; while most of the black and white movies had speckles, lines and flashes. Even their own DDLJ’s video is of variable quality and their latest Daawat-e-Ishq has low bits rate and dull colors.

'Daag' is their very own movie, yet the OOP (Authored by Super Digital) edition, as well as the in print (Blu-ray type case) both appear like absolute shit. Terribly unwatchable! I had a lot of high hopes when I purchased this DVD. Assuming that this was one of YRF's important movies & the cover was really good looking and their latest DVD edition of Silsila and Kabhi Kabhie were from the Blu ray master; I'd expected a very decent DVD of this film. But I was hugely disappointed. Its quite evident that they have used a VHS master. Sheeeeshhh.
Noorie, Mashaal, Kaala Patthar, and even Vijay look better than Daag. None of these movies are as big hits as Daag.

Now only if YRF would re-master this classics for a Blu-ray transfer.

[prepress]

I was hoping its (Daag) Blu-ray as they were frequently talking about it on Twitter last year but no news yet. I am hoping if they release Kaala Patthar first. I have posted screen shots in another thread.
They haven't released any classic from last couple of years, they have many movies which should be released on Blu-ray.

[HDDCS]

https://twitter.com/yrf/status/473349810125160448

I just posted here! I wish they would listen to us.